PT "It's over Anakin, I have the high ground!" or Darth Maul failure

Obi-Wan "It's over Anakin, I have the higher ground." = "It's over Anakin, I am one with the force."

 

This is a fascinating topic. I agree that the answer is actually pretty simple (as others have already posted), but the concept is really interesting. I had never compared the two attempts side-by-side before like that, though it makes perfect sense. Cool.

 

The Maul scene was a weak end to an otherwise fantastic duel. I really would've preferred it if they just had the duel end with a successful strike in the midst of sparring instead of giving us the requisite "hero at his lowest point" maneuver.

 

Everyone keeps forgetting that Darth Maul had no clue that Qui-Gon's lightsaber was still laying next to his body. He assumed that it fell into the bottomless pit just like Obi-wan's lightsaber did which is why Maul wasn't prepared for Obi-wan's final attack until its too late.

 

Obi-Wan actually prevailed because he used Soresu, which is a defensive form. Kenobi was able to reserve his energy and replenish it throughout the duel because he was not using power perpetually. Anakin uses Djem So for most of the Duel at Mustafar, and that is unwise because Djem So is not meant to be used for long periods of time. Power forms like Djem So are for dispatching an enemy quickly and overpowering opponents. Anakin should have known better, his master had the High Ground long before he literally did at the end of the duel.

 

I agree.

 

Plummet wrote:

Obi Wan was much more powerful and experienced by the time of RotS. Qui Gon was perhaps a bit past his best and facing a foe whose strengths (exceptional speed and agility) were well suited to take advantages of the Jedi master's abilities. I don't think that Maul is supposed to be anything like as powerful or skilled as Obi Wan and Anakin are by RotS.

The most important point is that Obi Wan knows the move (which is one of desperation anyway). He used it himself against Maul so instead of it being a surprise Obi wan is entirely ready for it and knows how to counter. His experience tells.

 

The high ground is metaphorical.

 

Because all duels in the PT are pretty stupid I would say. The Maul duel looks cool but if you actually think about it you would probably start to wonder why in the hell Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon didn't just cut him down, instead of taking turns slashing at him. All they had to do was attack at the same height from opposite directions at the same time and that fight would have been over. After reading a few threads about topics about such as the fights in the PT and having watched them again I must say they are highly disappointing, they might work as metaphors but then they should have been less flashy IMO. Too much influence from movies such as Crouching Tiger, hidden dragon.

 

I believe the high ground was more about having the high ground in the mind set. Both of Obi's opponents were arrogant, and full of darkside rage, and both times Obi Wan had stood his ground and centered himself calmly.

 

Presumably, Maul was skilled enough to position himself so as to prevent Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan from doing just that.

You can't think about the duels in Star Wars too hard. Otherwise you just start to ask yourself questions like, "On the Death Star, why didn't Vader just slash Obi-Wan's back while he was twirling around like a ballerina?" and then your entire weekend is shot.

 

We does Vader screw around with Luke at all then?

When Luke enters into the carbon chamber Vader should have dozens of Stormtroopers with him with their guns set to stun. Grab Luke and take him to the Emperor, inject him with mind altering drugs and the like and turn him to the Dark Side.

Instead Vader does what?

Oh yeah totally completely utterly screw up because he wanted a one or one fight.

Good plan.

 

Can't get your son to switch teams without testing his skills first.

 

The Maul fight ending reminded me a bit of the skiff scene in ROTJ, but I'd say the skiff scene was worse. Luke jumps off the plank, springs himself back up, waits for his lightsaber to land in his hand, turns it on, admires the nice new green blade, and then, finally, begins whacking everyone with it, as if it's a baseball bat. Surely before he started whacking everyone, at least ONE of the many armed guards could have gotten a shot off.

 

^^^^
That, and he also forgot that Qui-Gon's lightsaber was still laying next to his dead body until it's too late.

 

having the high ground meant it was pretty darn hard for Vader to leap that far up and over Obi-Wan without getting sliced.

 

This pretty much is it. RedVad touched on it saying it was metaphorical, but having the high ground can refer to having it physically or in an advantage (skill, experience, etc) in an area over your opponent.

 

Regarding why the high ground is such an advantage. It is well attested throughout history that having the high ground in a swordfight is usually an advantage. It's not a game over situation by any means. However it means your opponent is in an awkward position physically to defend at blows coming from above them and you have the advantage of both position and the weight of gravity with which to bring more force to bear against your opponent.

This wouldn't mean victory on its own by any means. In the full duel, before it was cut, this certainly wasn't the first time Obi wan had been in an advantageous position either. He forces Anakin over some sort of precipice at one time and leaps after him to deliver a killing blow to an opponent who may well have been on his backside. At one point he even has both lightsabers!

What does need to be taken into account is the actual nature of the situation. Obi Wan is at the top of a ridge with a steep slope. If Anakin tries to run up it he's going to be at a serious disadvantage and Obi wan will probably overpower him. The slope looks pretty slippery too which is going to make it even worse for him. If he tries to leap to the top of the ridge but away from Kenobi Obi Wan is still in an advantageous position to get there before Anakin and catch him in mid-air where he's vulnerable. Anakin decides that the best option is to go for the surprise outrageous attack, not realising that Kenobi knows the move all too well.

Anakin's best option here would've been to take his hover droid elsewhere and land safely (other side of the lava river?). Retreat doesn't seem to be in his nature though.

 

I'm not sure it was arrogance, but Obi-Wan simply outsmarted him. If Darth Maul was arrogant, he would have just left Obi-Wan there and counted it as a win. But he wanted to see the kill himself. While Maul admittedly does look a little stiff, I like how you can read the characters' thoughts without any dialogue. Obi-Wan finally lets go of his anger and calms himself, while Maul takes notice and makes a scowl. Meanwhile, he doesn't noticed the lightsaber begin to move before Obi-Wan jumps up and offs him.

Admittedly, it was a bit more believable in the comic, where Obi-Wan was upside-down in mid-flip at the time be bisected Maul.

 

That is the intrinsic flaw of the Dark Side. Passion gives Sith strength, but it also makes them lose self control. The jedi gain their power from self control and discipline. In that type of situation (involving unbalancing terrain), self control and discipline are more important than strength and speed and that's why Obi-Wan won. You can see in TPM that he only achieves victory when he clears his mind off his anger and regains his balance.