"It's too big to be a space station"

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by NemesisEnforcer, Oct 7, 2005.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Moderators: Darth_Nub, MOC Yak Face
  1. clone_commando_1993 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2005
    star 4
    The Death Star was being covered-up. Han was in the Imperial navy as a TIE pilot. nobody knew about the Death Star. and if anyone ever heard about it that wasnt supposed to, probably would have "disappeared"

    Commando
  2. PrinceHector Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2005
    star 2
    Allied and Axis low-ranking soldiers were still given the same propaganda as citizens in WW1 and WW2....
  3. darthvaderv Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2005
    star 4
  4. rumsmuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2000
    star 7
    I think that there is a six month gap between ESB and ROTJ.
  5. Smuggler-of-Mos-Espa Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2002
    star 6
    You're right more or less. I can't remember exactly how long, but it's just a matter of a few months.
  6. That_Wascally_Droid Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2001
    star 6
    Source?

    Likewise, where's your source that it wasn't?
    Your disproving other people's timelines because there's no proof, but there's no proof that it wasn't as long as they say either. So you're in as much fault as they are.

    The following is for anybody else who doesn't want this to be a plothole.

    In the ESB novel (before the EU was the EU) it said that ESB was three years past ANH. Lucas or Kasdan easily could've given Glut that number. "But there's no proof!!!11!1!" And there's no proof Glut didn't have straight facts to work off of when writing the book. So, while there's no concrete proof either way, there's more to say three years than not.
    RotJ states Han had been on Tatooine for six months to a year. See the same argument above, but replace Glut with Khan.
    Three and a half to four years with more to say it was than it wasn't.
    Then, you look at DS II. Apparently they had been working on it for some time. For more than a year anyway.
    RotJ's scroll states that the Empire has begun building a new one. It doesn't state that it has just begun constructing a new one. After one blows up, Emperor orders a new one.

    Poggle gives Dooku the plans who gives them to Sideous. The Republic begins construction of a war machine during a major war movement. There's tons of funds to get redirected towards this side project.
    The Clone Wars end and Palpatine's grip on the Senate is not all-mighty. In fact, the Senate is still a big enough thorn in his plans up till ANH when he finally dissolved the thing. Being so, he can't just divert funds to a massive war machine without raising a few questions. He also can't divert the resources. So, what could very concievably only take five to ten years to build takes roughly twenty. Keeping in mind the actual thing itself was fully constructed, but the weapons system wasn't ready to be tested. Afterall, where do you test it? So, the Death Star itself could've been sitting around for a year or more while the final dealings were cleared up.

    So DSI goes bye bye, and Palpatine wants a new one. Afterall, the Death Star was supposed to keep the systems in line. It's gone and Palpatine revealed his final intentions to a public that now really didn't like him so much. A DS would be rather handy for mass crowd control.
    Palpatine orders one built and quickly. He has some new advantages this time however. The Senate is gone and his nice guy facade is dropped. He can spend money and resources however the Hell he pleases. So for a happy number, double the funds and resources. Hell, triple fi you want or just increase by a quarter. Doesn't matter. We're dealing with rough numbers for a rough timeline. What matters is it's faster.
    We know from RotJ that Jerjerrod has the workers working as fast as they can. For a fun rough number and on screen evidence, let's say that that's twice as fast, with an increased number of funds and resources.
    Under normal circumstances, the first DS could've concievably been constructed in roughly ten years. With the DSII's workforce, possibly five years.
    But, the DSII is twice as big as DSI (accoarding once again to the pre-EU EU novel; see above argument). So, to finish it would take ten years.
    We're working with an at-most four year window. DSII however, was less than half complete. It has a good chunk missing for it's right half with only the equatorial belt complete. This mish mash of incomplete superstructure cuts down to the bottom and nearly to the other side.
    Even in the finished sections we see a great number of patches unfinished. Construction was still going on in what would be the inside of the thing as evident by the presence of service tunnels to the core (which also looked heavily incompleted.
    We know a handful of hangars were finished. We know the weapons control rooms were completed. We know the throne room and central shaft were completed. The core itself looked fairly complete. Everything else was mishmashed. It didn't even have shields.
    With the rough numbers all accounted for as well
  7. darthvaderv Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2005
    star 4
  8. That_Wascally_Droid Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2001
    star 6
    A plot hole is something that cannot conceivably be explained away, speculation or not.
    This can be.
    AT-AT's magic armor cannot.
  9. darthvaderv Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2005
    star 4
    No-one can cover up all of the little mistakes that are in the saga with excuses or EU sources. But I know what you mean. And agree that the DSII should take longer to build then what was displayed in the movie.
  10. That_Wascally_Droid Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2001
    star 6
    In addition to the above thought.
    Using purely movie evidence that you're so fond of, the audience knows that the first Death Star took longer to build for the second Death Star. Is this at all possible? Yes. Why? No one knows and no one's allowed to think about it apparently. But just because we are by no means allowed to possibly fathom why with the use of free thought, doesn't mean it's not possible.
    Not a plot hole.

    We see a shot of the exterior of a house. No one's outside. We cut to the inside where we see a character doing something, anything, for a few minutes. A character knocks on the door and is let in.
    By your extraordinarily restrictive train of thought, that is a plot hole because we saw no evidence of the person arriving, only that they suddenly appeared. Because to conjecture that the person arrived while the other person was busying themselves would require outside thought from the movie. By the law you have imposed upon yourself, this is a plot hole.

    ^ The above is a bit abrassive, but you were using fairly restrictive thinking with your 'this is a plot hole' train of thought. But, we discussed the matter, and everyone came out better for it.
    Besides me who is much to lazy to improve for anyone. Zzzzzz
  11. darthvaderv Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2005
    star 4
    [face_thinking] Well, it is unlikely but possible.

    If you see the beginning of the DS in ROTS, Know that there is about 1 year between ESB and ROTJ, Read the opening scroll to the film. Then to me it looks like this:

    19 YEARS DS takes to build vs 1 YEAR DSII takes to be half(or little under) built.

    It's a big difference using the movie evidence. However unlikely it is, it may be possible.

    This subject has been covered on other boards, I think you will find it's not a one dimensional view that only I have, and in return I understand your viewpoint.
  12. That_Wascally_Droid Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2001
    star 6
    Egads. Would you believe that's all I ask out of anybody here?
    "Hey, you don't have to agree with me, just understand my point of view."
    I don't like debates. The word has such a negative feel to it. A competition. Where there is a winner and loser. Bah. I much prefer discussions where each side sees where the other is coming from and can build on that.
    It makes this place... pleasant... :D
  13. darthvaderv Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2005
    star 4
Moderators: Darth_Nub, MOC Yak Face
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.