I've got some beef with this board. (Rant.)

Discussion in 'Fan Films, Fan Audio & SciFi 3D' started by SilverFox0440, Jun 6, 2002.

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  1. SilverFox0440 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2001
    star 4
    Ok, I came here a few years ago (I'm a long-time lurker, rare poster), and I know that this board has had to triumph over the adversities of many things from n00b influxes to downtime, etc. However, it's always been a characteristic of this board that its members have had intellegent conversations with each other, and now, with this recent arrival of many a newbie due to EP II, this has changed. I was reading that thread, http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=7216433&replies=35, about dark sabers, and when Lyrael rejected the idea of a black lightsaber it really threw me off coarse. It occurred to me that this new generation of fanfilm makers and starwars fans, in general, are undereducated and unimaginitve. I mean, I could understand the possibility that one might argue against some idea because of physical impossibility, but isn't that what movies are about--escape from reality? Besides, it's not impossible according to many interpretations of the design of lightsabers, because, first of all, there is this thing called "dark matter" which has a complementary composition, or charge, to "light matter," which you learn about in highschool physics, that when concentrated in high enough numbers behaves inversely to the way that light matter does, thus making it's color spectrum inverted. Anyway, the point is that these new members have little imagination, and when they try to argue their points (btw, Lyrael, I'm only using you as an example, not to make fun of you. I don't mean to start a flame war here, but I know I'm probably in for some anyway.) they use incorrect logic. I propose, to solve this problem, we compile a list of all of the resources, threads, forums, sites with movies, etc, that we have all come across in our fanfilm making experience so that the new generation (meaning post-ep II members, basically all the people with " May 02" and on under their names.) may have the same experience in this field as we, so we're all on the same level. I just found that absolutely absurd that a filmmaker (one of the most creativity-demanding jobs/hobbies ever) would not have the imagination to envision a blade core of a different color. And one last thing that we all could work on.....LEARN TO SPELL!! :) Voila, not wala. I'll be searching the net for links to add to a page that I'll be hosting on a site soon to be uploaded to my domain, so if anyone is interested in contributing links, please, please, please consider donating a list of urls, so we can abolish all of this "ignorance" once and for all....at least until ep III.... Thanks, and no offense, anyone, I just was making an observation. And I hope the mods realize how I handled this, not turning it into an accusation thread, but instead suggesting a solution (so please don't lock it, I'm serious about this.) Peace out.

    ::steps off of soap box::

    --SilverFox0440--

    [Edit: some punctuation.]
  2. datoolman Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2001
    star 3
    Well I can agree with you on several points here. I made one short comment about the 'Black Saber' in that thread. It pretty much said what you said, but in an obscure way.

    As for the spellinng thing... well I just plane refuse... I just don't havr the tyme to learn :)

    D
  3. Neszis Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2001
    star 4
    Man....you're very bold to say these things. You will be flamed, and get quite a bit of negative attention. That takes guts to come out and say it. I salute you, but I am indifferent on this topic.

    ~Neszis~
  4. SilverFox0440 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2001
    star 4
    (in response to datoolman)Har, har, har. No, but seriously, I'm relieved that you didn't spaz out, but I was prepared for it if someone did (someone probably will), and I am also glad you agree. Do you have any links you think I could use? I've got well over 40 right now, but I know that the more people that get in on this, the better.

    (in response to neszis) Firstly, thanks for the complement. I know some people will probably be aggravated, but they'll atleast be aware of the truth. Besides, if I'm banned from the board, it will be a loss for the board, not me. I can still read the threads (though I know nothing that extreme will happen.) Hopefully everyone will handle this maturely.

    This is an open invitation for anyone to PM me their links, or to post them in this thread, so if you think you know of a useful site, or a starwars/fanfilm/filmmaking site in general, I may not know about it, so gimme' the url! Thanks.

    --SilverFox0440--
  5. DaftMaul Former TFN Fan Films Staff

    VIP
    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 5
    Check out this thread SilverFox for lots of useful information that may help you in your quest, and obviously the Forum FAQ.

    And BTW it's spelt aggravated :p
  6. SilverFox0440 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2001
    star 4
    I'm not saying I'm perfect, Daft, it must've slipped. Thanks for the link, but I already have a hard copy on my harddrive. I meant links that haven't been posted, that people may have stumbled upon while surfing for tutorials or such. I have a backup of every thread on this board for the last 5 months, so I don't really need that. Thanks anyway. I hope you didn't mean to imply that I[/] was in need of that information. I'm compiling it for less experienced fanfilmmakers.
  7. tumblemoster Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 1, 2000
    star 4
    "I propose, to solve this problem, we compile a list of all of the resources, threads, forums, sites with movies, etc, that we have all come across in our fanfilm making experience so that the new generation (meaning post-ep II members, basically all the people with " May 02" and on under their names.) may have the same experience in this field as we, so we're all on the same level. "

    Honestly, if we were all on the same level, what would be the point? This board exists specifically for it's members to exchange knowledge and ideas. We have a FAQ to answer some of the basic and most common questions, but we cannot make people read it. How much more difficult would it be to get them to read your document?

    " It occurred to me that this new generation of fanfilm makers and starwars fans, in general, are undereducated and unimaginitve. Anyway, the point is that these new members have little imagination, and when they try to argue their points (...) they use incorrect logic."

    Rediculous. How could you possibly judge a member's education and imagination by their expression of an opinion? You are making a blanket judgement about new users based on scant observations.

    New member's come here to learn, and while some of their repetitive questions may get annoying, How else are they going to learn? My second question on this board was something about lightsabers. I bet if you ask older members of this forum many of them will tell you the same thing. I refuse to believe new members have nothing to contribute.

    -tm
  8. MaxVeers TFN FanFilms Staff, Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2000
    star 5
    [face_laugh] If you're displeased with the spelling at this board....then welcome to the Internet, friend. :) No one here can spell.
  9. Crook Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 11, 2002
    star 1
    I quite agree, art sometimes gets lost on some people, but that shouldn't stop anyone. Although this annoyed me:







    Besides, it's not impossible according to many interpretations of the design of lightsabers, because, first of all, there is this thing called "dark matter" which has a complementary composition, or charge, to "light matter," which you learn about in highschool physics, that when concentrated in high enough numbers behaves inversely to the way that light matter does, thus making it's color spectrum inverted.







    This is completely and utterly wrong. It couldn't be wronger if it tried. Please take all your science exams again, especially physics, because the above made you sound extremely stupid. I'm not saying you are, don't get me wrong, I agree about the art bit, but that was just hogwash.
  10. JEDIBYKNIGHT Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2001
    star 4
    In fact when I read this... I didn't think he was being stupid, I thought I was... I didn't understand anything...

    I guess I'm not a scientist...
  11. DragonScythe Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2001
    star 1
    Anyways I somewhat agree, and somewhat disagree. I agree a little on typing. I only think we need to type as much as we can get it. As for some of your other ideas, their just controversial my friend...


    BORED LITTLE COMMIE

    BTW
    Dark Matter? Dark Matter? That is just a gravity pull; It's a way to express why certain bodies move faster at a farther plane of orbit around a larger gravity pull. For instance, say pluto started to rotate around the sun at a faster rate than mercury (I know it sounds absurd. But keep up with me). Now what could cause this? A gravitational change, or another body hapening to create an irregular orbit. (There is a specific speed at different planes of orbit that the body must follow, in direct response to centrifigul force) Thus, a faster orbit is acquired. This idea was first pondered as a result of odd orbits, similar to the example here, but on a fairly different scale. And anyways...that's not what the post was about!


    Hmm...but I just ranted about it......
  12. datoolman Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2001
    star 3
    Instead of thinking about Dark Matter you might want to consider antimatter.... or is that the same thing ?

  13. Crook Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 11, 2002
    star 1
    80% right Dragon, but be careful about solar system sized examples, they break down, and there is no such thing as centrifugal force, neve has been, never will be. It's a (stupid) shortcut invented by engineers.
  14. DragonScythe Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2001
    star 1
    well actually what it really is, is that when you go faster you break orbit which is really a constant fall...Happy? It's a simple and very easy way to explain it. Some people just don't know it all alright?

    COMMIE!!

    but that's not what his post was about...


    AND a Lightsaber with antimatter would really hurt to use...It'd blow up in your face...probably...

    And anyways I'm a History nut!!
  15. Various Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2002
    star 2
    You got the "/" but forgot the "i" in your end tag up there.

    Hey, lookie, May '02 under me name.

    (Just joking :D )

    It's true, many newbies are undereducated. Of course this is mostly because many of them are still in highschool.

    I like the idea of centralizing the info but let us still ask questions if only to be directed to something we missed. I can set up a computer network, code web pages, hack nintendo games, draw fairly well, write pretty good, heck I can even change my car's oil (although I avoid doing so myself if I can help it). But I don't know squat about video and even less about digital video.

    So take it easy, Fox. If you lay an egg everytime someone asks a stupid question, pretty soon you get tired of omlettes.

    ...hell I dunno, insert your own zany proverb. I'm done.
  16. datoolman Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2001
    star 3
    I think the point has ben made several times and I hate to use the corporate term, but 'think outside the box'. NOTHING is impossible in films. As long as you have a good story to explain the existance of a thing or object it instantly becomes real. If the audiance doesn't buy it then you have a writing problem. The problem here is how to make a 'Black Saber' look real. It is not an issue of 'can it exist'.

    D
  17. Crook Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 11, 2002
    star 1
    Damn right I'm a commie :) Just doing my bit for accuracy, and an antimatter blade is also daft. Very daft. As in 'if lightsabers could be done' (which they can't, but I do have an idea or two on how to further their production) 'then antimatter wouldn't be the way at all.'
  18. Deagle_Raa Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2002
    star 2
    Please people! I know I am a (relative) newbie but to sort this lightsaber matter out once and for all:
    If you want to adhere strictly to Lucasfilms then lightsabers should be either green, blue or red. Windu (I forget the actor's name :p)was alowed purple only cause he's an influential big name actor.
    Because we don't have Lucas breathing down our backs when making our films, we have little more liberty with what we can and cannot do. Now I know everyone wants their sabers to be more personalised from the generic colours so why not let them? So what if someone wants to make a black lightsaber? The majority argument is that it's impossible to use 'dark light' but why the hell should that be so??? Have people forgotten sabers are NOT REAL? Instead of flaming the poor guy about how it can't happen why not give him useful suggestions, like recreate the look of a UV light? (that's not 'black light' in the strictest sense but it's the closest thing any of us have seen isn't it?)
    So who cares if people want to strange and new things? Embrace it and help them. Maybe it will catch on and be the next fad? Yes there are a lot of people coming in asking the same questions, but for them, that's the frist time they've asked it! One day they'll become oldbies too. And about them being uneducated, maybe they're just being a little naive with too many ideas in their heads. I know I was the same.
    Now I could keep rambling but I'll stop. I hope you get the point: let people do what they want even if their ideas sound stupid. If 30ish years ago I said let's make a space film using models, zipping them around with lasers and explosions and we'll have action, and adventure and comedy and romance and laser swords and this thing that binds the universe togther called 'the force' then you would have thought I was mad. But look at where we are today.
  19. DragonScythe Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2001
    star 1
    YOU FORGOT SAMEUL L. JACKSON's NAME!!! MY FREAKING OH MY FREAKING...It's alright. Sometimes I forget my own name...

    Sometimes physics is funny!


    Point taken anyways
  20. buliwif Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 2000
    star 4
    if we're gonna get all scientifical here (that's a new word... just made it) then an antimatter lightsaber would be a BIG whopping mistake... antimatter cannot exist for more than a microsecond outside of a controlled environment, simply because as soon as it comes in contact with matter it negates itself, thus going *poof!* the only possible use for antimatter would be in the harnessing of energy, as the said *poof!* releases a cartload of it! (which is the whole basis behind Star Trek's warp theory)

    SOOOOOOO the second you activate your antimatter lightsaber you get a nice little mushroom cloud where you used to be...

    as for DARK MATTER? i honestly couldn't tell ya...

    just had to throw my own two cents in... lol
  21. Darth_Jerak Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 3
    Hey Silver,

    Let me get this straight, you started a post to complain about (1) another post and (2) spelling. First of all, I am a newbie (to TFN forums at least, not to the Star Wars universe, I have in fact lurked TFN for about 4 years) and I've got to say the condescending attitude of so many of you 'senior' TFNers is driving me mad, get down off your soap-boxes, put up with re-occuring FAQ-related posts, and accept that any increased interest towards TFN and the Starwars universe is a good thing. Just because some of you have been registered here for a year or so doesn't mean a thing. I'm not saying that you (Silver) take this attitude, but as long as you're getting up on your soapbox, I'm gonna get on mine. From now on, try not to treat every May '02er like some worthless moron. Some of you seniors, on the other hand, have been of great help to the Newbies, kudos to you.

    Second, the spelling issue, as others have said, get used to it. Has it occured to you that some of the people using these boards may not speak English as their first language? Or, alternatively some of these posters may be in the 10 - 15 age group, and (like you at their age) have not yet achieved a mature, competent grasp of the mechanics and rules of the english language.

    lastly Silver, if you are so distressed about the black saber post, then post in that thread. You opened a new thread to bash another, that's pretty stupid, especially coming from a 'senior' TFNer. Keep it in the appropriate thread.

    I support your idea about putting together a list of resources for 'newbies' and seniors alike.

    If the the fan film forum is going to become a place for senior posters (translation 16 - 24 year olds with massive egos, and far too much time on their hands - sorry, that's a major generalization, somewhat similar to the major generalizations made about Newbies) to bash newbies, maybe I don't want to be part of the community.

    -Kol.

    Again, I just want to say, some of these comments are directed at Silver, some are directed at the TFN forum community at large.

    P.S. Not all Fan film newbies are completely uneducated towards film making. I'm a second year film student with 6 years experience in the computer animation industry. I have full working knowledge of a variety of comp. animation, editing, and compositing apps. I have extensive experience with film, as well as digital video. Don't assume every newbie is some adolescent in grade 10.
  22. JEDIBYKNIGHT Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2001
    star 4
    Don't forget the Force... with the help of the Force, anything is possible... No need for science... ;)
  23. buliwif Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 2000
    star 4
    senior TFNers are 16-24 years old??? my God, i AM OLD!!!! :eek:
  24. citizen-tom Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 5
    It looks like this thread is becoming an extension of the Black saber thread.

    -Tom

    p.s: I know it's Voila not wala, i must of slipped, and because i have commited such a hideous crime i apoligize sincerley, affirmly, and with great integrity. ;)


    p.s.(the sequel): I probably spelled 3 whole words wrong in the original p.s., please rant me as necessary. :p
  25. DorkmanScott Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 6
    I like Jerak. :)

    Look, since we're still on about the black saber, the issue is not the fact that people dismiss it out of hand and have no capability to "think outside the box".

    The issue is, it's been attempted, and it looks like crap. At best. I don't even know why that thread is still going. Black glow looks like crap, black core looks like crap.

    I just found that absolutely absurd that a filmmaker (one of the most creativity-demanding jobs/hobbies ever) would not have the imagination to envision a blade core of a different color.

    I find it absurd that said filmmaker has nothing bigger to concern himself with.

    You've got a beef with people shooting down ideas. I've got a beef with "Oooooh! I'll INVERT the color of the saber's core! I'm innovative!"

    My problem is that most people here are so obsessed with VISUALLY doing something new and different, that they just lay a "story" like so many eggs (I liked that analogy from earlier), no real thought or effort behind it, just an excuse to do the funky effect.

    And in the end, the effect is usually executed poorly, thus blowing up in the filmmaker's face, and the whole effort is wasted because there's no story to keep it afloat.

    The real art is in the storytelling, which is the ONLY reason for the medium (film/video). If you want to do silly effects tests, by all means do, but PLEASE don't try to call that "art". I get enough of that crap here at college.

    "A special effect without a story is just a special effect." -- George Lucas

    M. Scott
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