I've just seen Matrix Reloaded and...

Discussion in 'Scifi 3D Forum' started by Dr. Jones, May 17, 2003.

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  1. Dr. Jones Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 6, 2000
    star 4
    ... I won't be able to start Max before next week I think, too frustrating. :_|
    Same thing happened after lord of the ring.

    I was just amazed, and speachless. But this time it's different from star wars or lord of the ring, because this is Real Life CG, not Fantasy, or Scifi...

    Anyway, I can't wait for final chapter.

    Put your comments here
  2. Golden-Y Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2000
    star 3
    I agree. But I think it inspired me even more now. If you watch it a couple of times, you get to analyze the effects more and seeing how it can be done with what you have. The end of the freeway chase scene was probably my favorite scene. I would have to say that the team that worked on the CG for RELOADED did a fantastic job throughout the whole thing. I put them next to WETA that are doing the LOTR films. Somehow, ILM seems to be falling back a few steps.
  3. Pixelito Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 16, 2002
    star 4
    sure it was pretty, but i was waiting in line for 3 hours for the 10pm screening last wednesday, and i was quite unimpressed with the film overall. maybe the first matrix was a little too much of a mindjob and the sequel couldn't live up to it, i don't know.

    but yes, it was pretty. except for the accordian-like compression of the 18 wheelers.

    plus, it had EASILY the WORST final shot of any film i've ever seen.
  4. ObiMcD Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2000
    star 4
    I thought ILM was doing the Matrix films...
  5. George Mezori SCIFI 3D Scifi 3D Forum

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    I'm really into the total package and I have to say I just got back and I was not real impressed. I don't think I had high expectations either. It was a good movie but some of the storyline and dialogue really messed it up. Too much... mindless Matrix philosophy. I really liked a little of it with the Oracale and Morph in the first movie... but it really was a distraction this time. That's my only real complaint.

    Have you guys seen the Half-Life 2 movies from the E3 show? Man, we are really getting sandwiched between movies and games. We'll never be able to keep up. Mind as well accept it.
  6. Golden-Y Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2000
    star 3
    The accordian-like compression is somewhat based on actual collision tests of that type of material in that type of impact in a real world environment.

    ILM was not involved in any of the Matrix films. One is from Australia (I believe), and some other smaller effect houses.

    I did check out that trailer for Half-Life 2. Excellent texture methods they are using. It seeme they are using the baking technique to add more realism to the environment. I definitely look forward to it. One thing that I'm wondering is if Counter-Strike 2 will be later using Half-Life 2's game engine because current screenshots of it show them using the old engine (last time I checked).
  7. The-Matt-Man Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 19, 2002
    star 4
    I don't know, you can really tell that Neo is CG in the burly brawl sequence. That kind of disappointed me. I was hopeing for something better than the CG double job they did for Daredevil. It was good in the sense that it would be a pain to do that kind of thing with real actors though. I think I was moreimpressed by the clonetroopers, or Gollum, or maybe even the double used for Spider-Man....but it was a cool shot none the less. Their animation skills are obviously far beyond mine, so I can't complain too much.

    -Matt


    (P.S. Am I the only one who thought of Sauron waving his sword and those guys flying back when all of those agent Smiths went flying back?)
  8. Lots Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2001
    star 4
    halflife2.. halo2.. eh.. have u guys seen the doom3 stuff? i still think thats way beyond either two...
  9. Golden-Y Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2000
    star 3
    The only problem with Doom 3 (which is why people just tend to leave it out of their conversations) is because it has been delayed so many times. The problem was that they promoted it too early. :(
  10. Dr. Jones Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 6, 2000
    star 4
    I agree with zoo about philosophy, there was to much, especially when talking with Mérovingien (Hey a french actor, Lambert Wilson, he is quiet famous in France. Argh! and Monica Belluchi... she don't need cg to be impressive)

    Of course you can tell Neo is CG, while clonetroopers and Gollum looked more real, because Neo is just a black dressed guy, while the other doesn't exist, you can't compare them to real life based characte, you can't tell if they match the real one. But yeah it's true, you can clearly see in this fight sequence, with agents smith, half of it is cg, but probably because these are very long shoot, and slow motion.
  11. Crunchy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 4
    No, Dr. Jones, say it ain't so! ;) (referring to first post)
  12. Dr. Jones Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 6, 2000
    star 4
    Actually you're right because this sunday afternoon, I just modeled. I was working on Kyles Katarn head. I couldn't get the hair ok, so I transformed him into Wolverine... Yeah quiet uncommon transformation. I'd like to post pics of it, but I don't have any web space anymore
  13. the_dig Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2002
    star 1
    I don´t think doom 3 was delayed so much (think at "duke nukem-forever", "freelancer" etc.) When it comes this year it´s okay.


    I haven´t seen matrix reloaded ´till now - but have you seen the (new/second) "Terminator 3" - Trailer? Although I am a T1+2 fan I was not really interested in T3 until I´ve seen it...
    I think it will be like matrix relaoded - "dumb/obvious"-story with great effects, action, very entertaining, but - OF COURSE - not as good as the originals.
  14. Crunchy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 4
    Hey Oli, if you send me the pics I can post them...;)
  15. borjis fett Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 25, 1999
    star 3

    I'm with Pixelito on this.

    My favorite scene was the truck collision as well.

    I loved the cloth simulation and that killer shirt/trenchcoat neo wore.

    There was something not right with the lower portion of the CGI Neo face though.

    I thought the dancing/celebration of the people was kinda silly though.
  16. malducin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2001
    star 4
    ESC, mainly formed from guys from Mannex, was the main VFX provider. Animal Logic (Australia) who also worked 9on the first, worked on it, as well as Buf (France), and Imageworks (which took the work originally assigned to now defunct Centropolis). For Revolution, Tippet Studio will also be involved.
  17. Darksteps Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2001
    star 3
    I just saw it and thought that the truck fight with Morpheus and the agent was <i>poorly</i> done... it was like the footage from the background didn't match the CG in the foreground... also thought the brawl with Agent Smith on the playground was, well... slow...

    but I luv the philosophy of it...

    I live for techno-babble and it was full of it...
    ;)
    Darksteps...
  18. Antilles01 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 3
    on the contrary, i thought the freeway sequence as well as the fight on the truck was very well done. I think i enjoyed that part the most.

    straying from that for a second, in the end, where does Trinity have her uzis before she pulls them out (before she jumps out the window). I mean, she has a skin tight outfit that as far as i can tell has no place to hold uzis...

    but oh well :)

    I think they could have shortened the rave scene, and they could have done a bit better in a lot of areas with Morpheus' speech in Zion... also, (now this gets into the reduntant zone) the courtyard fight is a bit too cg in the latter half...

    Another thing not said before is that the lighting was strange in some of the courtyard fight shots. At certain points, it seemed like normal daytime, and at other points it seemed like it was at night under lights...
  19. George Mezori SCIFI 3D Scifi 3D Forum

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    A critic mentioned something... where is the plot? Now I think about it I don't really understand what the point is anymore. In the first one it's to fight back, and look for this special "one" and see how he can help. But after watching RELOADED I don't know what they're doing anymore. It was really a plotless movie. And all that "techno-babble" made it worse. They want to physically fight the machines but they could never win, some think they can. They're on this mindless pointless goose-chase with Neo that seems to never lead anywhere. They don't really know why they are on this mission... and neither does the movie-goer. They could have explained it better to the audience and just let the characters stumble thru..and then at the end throw in some surprises for everybody. But at this point I have to say I don't really know what the point,purpose, or plot of that movie was. I think I know what it was supposed to be. But it was really poorly executed. I don't know about all the complaints about some shots are about.. it all really looked pretty good. They should have just cut it back down to a 2 hour movie.. 30-minutes less of some of that junk would have made a better movie.

    I could poke holes in it all day. One thing I don't get is.. why does he bother punching and kicking everybody? Some of that some of the time is good... some of us want to see that.. but 200 Agent Smith's? He can stop bullets but he has to puch and kick his way around. He should be able to wave his hand like a Jedi and throw them around. But I don't mind the courtyard fight scenes.. it was getting a little old after awhile.. cut some of it. But that "RAVE" part was kinda long. Isn't the whole point to show how desparate they are.. how bleak their lives, are, how we could relate to them and the dilema and hardships they are in, how we could relate to why one guy betrayed them in teh first movie. All of this stuff was GREAT in the first movie. But it just didn't work this time. Maybe a small war with the machines like in the "OSIRIS" short would have gave some sense of how desparate their situation is, a sense of hopelessness. That's drama. That puts you on the edge of your seat, draws you into what the character is going thru.

    I was disappointed with it a bit. 2.5 hours long. I was debating whether I would buy the DVD or not. It better have alot of extras on it and be cheap. It's too long to watch all the time like I do alot of my DVD's.
  20. Deagle_Raa Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2002
    star 2
    Argh, if you don't think about it you're not going to to get! Watch it when you're awake and thinking, not midnight on opening night when u've been waiting in line for 3 hours.

    Ok so the first one is about finding the One who will free the human race. In Reloaded we find the One is part of the grand scheme to keep humans enslaved. like someone on FFF said, it follows Lucas' 3 part story: 1- the discovery of the hero, 2- the bad guys fight back and almost beat the good guys, the hero discovers he's intimately linked to the villain, 3- Hero confronts his deepest fear, big fight, good guys win

    There's a lot of philosophical talk. i guess you have to be into that kinda thing to enjoy it. Otherwise you'll find it confusing and too drawn out. it's not your typical Hollywood story, you actually need to think!
  21. Dr. Jones Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 6, 2000
    star 4
    Agree with Deagle, in this part, Neo just learns he is a part of the matrix plan, he is the one who will help humans to survive, but he won't save Zion, he learns he isn't the First One, buth the sixth, and the same story happened several times. Morpheus was right, neo is the chosen one, but he won't kill the matrix, he will just save humanity, by picking some survivors. And in the end, when he come back in the real world, he destroyes the robots, but we don't know why, that's what will be explained in the third part.
  22. George Mezori SCIFI 3D Scifi 3D Forum

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    I didn't get that at all. After the movie I thought maybe what was going on was 6 other times they ran simulations of what diff. responses Neo might have and how they would react.. like a game of chess. How could he have physically been there 6 other times? When did we find out he won't save Zion? I remember he was given these choices... but how does the Matrix guy know the outcome depending on what he does. I didn't believe anything that guy said b/c he was just a computer trying to manipulate Neo.

    My understanding was that they made up this whole story just to flush these people out, Neo isn't really that special... but they want to get at the leaders of Zion. The whole damn thing was a HOAX. Even at the end Neo told Morph... it's all a lie. None of it is true... and he himself said he (Neo) can't save Zion or humanity.

    I was with 3 other people and none of us really got any of this and we saw it at 4:15pm. We were all kinda disappointed. Alot of the dialogue and plot were just jibberish.
  23. Jackie_Chan_Fan Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 7, 2002
    star 1
    is there a werewolf in the movie?
  24. Jedi2016 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2000
    star 4
    This seems to be one of those films that people either love or hate.. and I'm in the group that thinks that if you didn't like it, then you didn't understand it.

    Neo was never the first "One".. that was explained in the first film, that he was the second. The "first" was the one who "freed the first of us" (i.e. picked new Zion survivors from the Matrix before he was re-integrated). The lie was that Neo was supposed to destroy the Matrix.. a lot of it boils down to the "point of view" thing from the SW films.. Neo is indeed supposed to end the war, just in a very different way than the humans were told (although I'm assuming the Oracle knew it, of course). And the other "Ones" were not Neo, they were just other people with the same gifts as Neo. The Merovingian was clear that Neo was different from the other five ("Your predecessors had much more respect"). What's going to be interesting to see is how Neo's decision at the end will affect things.. he chose a different path than the previous Ones, a path that, if left unchecked, will indeed destroy the Matrix, but will also kill every human attached to it (some eight billion of them). That's why the other Ones chose to allow Zion to be destroyed according to the machines' plan... better that a quarter-million die than eight billion. Perhaps with a degree of hope that one of the future anomolies would indeed be able to truly end the war and free humanity.

    Going back on-topic, though, about the CG.. yes, in some places, it could use some improvement, but bear in mind that the "worst" CG in the film is also the oldest.. the Burly Brawl. I just read an article in EW, that scene took a solid two years.. two YEARS to animate and render. JUST that scene.. they probably had a dedicated crew working on just that scene, while other folks did the rest of the film. WHich means when you see bad CG in the Brawl, it's probably because it's old CG.. the techniques changed over the last two years, and they just didn't have the time to go back and completely re-do shots that they'd already completed well over a year ago. Also bear in mind that it's not ILM.

    I did like one comment the Wachowski's made in regards to some of the effects, though.. apparently, they were just as miffed as a lot of fans when so many other commercials and movies copied various effects from the first Matrix film.. bullet-time, the "guns.. lots of guns." scene, etc. Part of their outlook on Reloaded was "Yeah? Copy THIS." by making it so insanely complex that it would be virtually impossible for other companies to duplicate it without spending incredible amounts of money. There were, in fact, only fourteen people involved in the Burly Brawl.. Keanu Reeves, Hugo Weaving, and twelve stuntmen, lookalikes to Weaving.. all the other Smiths were CG.. no small feat there, and it goes largely unnoticed. But since Neo is the center of attention during the fight, everyone notices when he's not quite "right". To me, the most obvious shortcoming was toward the end of the fight, when he was hopping around on top of the Smiths, bouncing from head to head. That one just looked too fake, but I'd need to go through frame-by-frame to figure out exactly where the shortcoming is. There were, of course, many other CG shots, that were recognizable simply because there's no other way to do it (Neo's "propeller" move right after he grabs the stick, for example), but many of those shots are done quite well, with nothing obvious to set them apart as CGI except their impossibility to do as a practical effect. I think this may be one of those times when it's bad to know so much about filmmaking, knowing that a shot is CGI because CG is the only way to do the effect. Most of the people in the theater probably won't see as many shortcomings as we do.

    I don't allow it to detract from my enjoyment of the film, though.. I thought "The Matrix: Reloaded" was a fantastic film, which I'll probably see a few more times before it leaves theaters, and I know it's a "must-buy" when it hits DVD later this year (word is, it'll
  25. Knight9703 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 6, 2002
    If you haven't seen the Matrix Reloaded yet, skip this post(possible ending givaway)...












    My understanding was that Neo (and everyone else, even Zion) are still in the Matrix. That's why Neo was able to stop the machines at the end by raising his hand. Zion and the war to free mankind is still all made up in the Matrix. This is the sixth (or seventh) time it is all happening, except Neo chose a different path because he's in love.

    Also, remember near the begining when the kid gave Neo the spoon as a gift(said he must have it before he goes). It was a symbol to 'free his mind'. That's how I took it at least.
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