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Oceania IVF babies and single women.

Discussion in 'Oceania Discussion Boards' started by MarvinTheMartian, Apr 19, 2002.

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  1. MarvinTheMartian

    MarvinTheMartian Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 31, 2002
    What do people think about this?

    I personally believe that single women should NOT have access to IVF technology for conceiving children.

    IVF should only be used for couples who are having difficulty having children, that is what the treatment was intended for anyway.

    If a single woman really does want to have a child, why can't she adopt? There are so many children in orphanges around the world, it just doesnt make sense that she would want to go around it in some technological way.
     
  2. Shara_82

    Shara_82 Administrator Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2001
    I may be wrong here, but don't the authorities have rules that don't allow single women to adopt? Or if they do, they make it a great deal harder than if the woman is half of a married couple.
     
  3. Shadowfire

    Shadowfire Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 14, 1998
    Why should a single woman with problems conceiving be disciminated against when other women with no fertility problems can just throw their legs in the air to any guy they see to get pregnant.

    Seems a bit discriminatory to me.





     
  4. MarvinTheMartian

    MarvinTheMartian Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 31, 2002
    To be perfectly honest I do ot know the rules about adoption. But in any case, I really think that it is preferable to raise a child who needs a home, if a woman was in that situation.

    Alternatively, she could get a boyfriend or a husband to help, couldn't she? After all, there must be about 3 billion straight males in the world!!!!
     
  5. Shara_82

    Shara_82 Administrator Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2001
    So you're saying that if a single woman wants a child, she should go out and hook up with the first man she finds, simpy because they're single?
     
  6. MarvinTheMartian

    MarvinTheMartian Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 31, 2002
    [hl=yellow]Why should a single woman with problems conceiving be disciminated against when other women with no fertility problems can just throw theirlegs in the air to any guy she sees to get pregnant.

    Seems a bit discriminatory to me.[/hl]

    The single women who are trying to adopt are fertile!
     
  7. MarvinTheMartian

    MarvinTheMartian Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 31, 2002
    IVF is a medical procedure.

    God gave us reproductive organs so they can be used to reproduce!
     
  8. Shara_82

    Shara_82 Administrator Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2001
    So...hypothetically. A single, infertile woman wants to have a child. In your opinion, should she be allowed IVF to have her OWN child? Or would she have to go through beaurecratic morons in an attempt to adopt a child she may never get?
     
  9. Shadowfire

    Shadowfire Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 14, 1998
    A single woman with Fertility issues should have the same rights to the IVF programme as a woman in a relationship.

    To discriminate either way, is a gross injustice to either person.

    Is a single woman going to love the child any less than a woman in a relationship?
     
  10. Shara_82

    Shara_82 Administrator Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2001
    I personally agree with you, Shadowfire, but I'd be interested to see what Marvin thinks.
     
  11. MarvinTheMartian

    MarvinTheMartian Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 31, 2002
    The point was about single fertile women, by the way. I thought I made that quite clear. I appologise if I did not.

    Another question: Howard says that children have the right be born with the presence of a mother and a father.

    What do people think of that????
     
  12. Shara_82

    Shara_82 Administrator Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2001
    So everything Johnny says is law? ;)

    I believe a child has the right to a family that loves, cherishes and nurtures them, whether that be with one parent or four.
     
  13. HawkNC

    HawkNC Former RSA: Oceania star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2001
    EDIT: 4 posts were made while I wrote this, so you can ignore the first paragraph if you want. :)

    If a single, infertile woman wants to have a baby, it's not to help the world. It's to have her own legitimate offspring. I acknowledge that there are far too many children who need to be adopted, but wouldn't you want the whole package including birth, rather than miss out on those first few years?

    Now a single fertile woman doesn't have quite as much of an argument. I'm not saying they should go out and have unprotected sex with any guy off the street, but patience is a virtue. Eventually they'll probably meet someone who is willing to have a child. You still can't prevent them from having IVF treatment simply because there are already kids out there, though.
     
  14. MarvinTheMartian

    MarvinTheMartian Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 31, 2002
    [hl=yellow]So everything Johnny says is law?[/hl] Well, of course! He's the guy who won the election remember!!!!! :p
     
  15. Shara_82

    Shara_82 Administrator Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2001
    That was supposedly to represent us, not make our decisions for us. ;)

    [face_laugh] Well...maybe not...
     
  16. HawkNC

    HawkNC Former RSA: Oceania star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2001
    Heh...represent us...good one Shara :p

    For the record, I think it's wrong to discriminate against someone simply because they're single and therefore obviously incapable of raising children. *cough* ;) However, I think they should be encouraged to at least consider alternatives, IVF was designed to help infertile couples and single women, not specifically ones who feel the pressure of their biological clock.
     
  17. Shadowfire

    Shadowfire Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 14, 1998
    Another question: Howard says that children have the right be born with the presence of a mother and a father.

    What do people think of that????

    What a crock of bantha dung.

    Biologically, as soon as the male inseminates the female, he buggers off.

    Johnie has made a moral choice for himself. While I don't disagree that children should be brought up in a stable relationship between two adults, I certainly do not see a single woman being incapable of provided everything a couple could.
     
  18. MarvinTheMartian

    MarvinTheMartian Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 31, 2002
    [hl=yellow]Now a single fertile woman doesn't have quite as much of an argument. I'm not saying they should go out and have unprotected sex with any guy off the street, but patience is a virtue. Eventually they'll probably meet someone who is willing to have a child. You still can't prevent them from having IVF treatment simply because there are already kids out there, though.[/hl]

    I agree with the part about having patience. I think she should just wait to find a man she likes and loves, and just do it the old fashioned way. And she should be patient. If she really wants a child, then adoption is the most legitimate way of getting a child, it wouls seem to me.
     
  19. Shadowfire

    Shadowfire Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 14, 1998
    For a fertile woman, Adoption is NOT the most legitimate way of having a child. SEXUAL INTERCOURSE is.

    And most likely a damn sight quicker with all the laws to prevent bad parents from adopting children.
     
  20. MarvinTheMartian

    MarvinTheMartian Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 31, 2002
    [hl=yellow]I acknowledge that there are far too many children who need to be adopted, but wouldn't you want the whole package including birth, rather than miss out on those first few years? [/hl]

    There are a lot of VERY young orphans out there. and there are so many babies in countries like China, where they are literally dumped at the doorstep of orphanges. I don't think that a whole heap of the child's life would be missed out on, because most parenthood happens later on anyway.

    EDIT:
    Anyway adoption is more legitimate in my opinion than IVF, for a fertile woman. For the reason mentioned above.
     
  21. HawkNC

    HawkNC Former RSA: Oceania star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2001
    Well, it will ultimately depend on how they categorise IVF. For most medical procedures, you generally need a valid reason for it. "Not getting any" doesn't count. If it's considered to be in the same category as plastic surgery though, then you have another problem altogether because anyone can have it if they have the money. I don't believe it should be accessible to anyone that isn't infertile, though. It'd be kinda like giving someone a prosthetic leg just because they think it'd look cool. :)
     
  22. MarvinTheMartian

    MarvinTheMartian Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 31, 2002
    ^ I heard something similar to that once, but I think the guy wanted to have a robotic eye or something...I can't remember....
     
  23. Ragtime_Mouse

    Ragtime_Mouse Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 13, 2002
    Imagine being the child, never knowing your father...never knowing what he looked like, what his job was, never knowing your own heritage...
     
  24. HawkNC

    HawkNC Former RSA: Oceania star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2001
    Imagine being an adopted child, not knowing who either of your real parents are. It's a difficult situation for the child either way, but there are plenty of people around who grew up without knowing their father. Luke Skywalker, for instance. :p

    Sorry, I had to say it.
     
  25. Ragtime_Mouse

    Ragtime_Mouse Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 13, 2002
    I had feeling someone would say that, it is a perfect chance.

    What about not ever having a father? Someone to look up to? A childhood without a father can make people go bad. For example, Anakin Skywalker. Look what he became!
     
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