Ivory Tower Syndrome

No really, I understand how if you're super important enough to be chosen as a moderator at a Star Wars Message Board ( !!!!!!11), you must feel you're entitled to use your powers at your whimsy and there's no need to bother with consideration. But it's honestly not doing anything good for user-mod relations to flaunt your powers and then say "Oh hey, I'm a mod so I can do whatever I want! It's okay!"

So can we discuss maybe curtailing the flaunting of powers (This includes html use, titles, and anything else you guys might decide to use inappropriately), or are all of you too small to give it up?

 

I don't think what Quix did was flaunting any powers or anything, perhaps he was just having some fun?

 

As this is not so subtly directed at me, I'll be the first to respond. I got goofy with two posts in YJCC (for a grand total of 3 posts in 6000+), any if anyone takes offense, my apologies. I have no qualms not using html, as I rarely, if ever, use it.

I would appreciate, however, if we could reframe this discussion in more collegial terms, instead of instantly adopting an antagonistic stance.

 

SecondBest posted on 6/1/05 10:22am

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I don't think what [b]Quix[/b] did was flaunting any powers or anything, perhaps he was just having some fun?
[hr][/blockquote]

 

Hahahahaha, how are we supposed to have a collegial discussion when you're so interested in setting yourself apart from us because, as a mod, you're so much better?

 

I think AaylaSecurOWNED's point was that it highlighted the separation between regular users and managers.

I've posted my feelings on this several times in different threads :- where possible I think it's important to limit the separation between regular users and the administration. We're all just regular users too, with the responsibility of looking at the boards, editing inappropriate things out and removing posters who cause trouble.

I've always maintained that it's a responsbility, not a 'power', and I can understand why some people might feel it's poor posting to 'show-off' your abilities when it isn't needed. I'd personally try to avoid that wherever possible.

However, the flip side to this arguement is that absolutely no harm was done.

 

I'm pretty certain that Quix doesn't feel he's better. I don't agree with using HTML in the way he did, but let's not take it too far. There's far better examples of ivory tower syndrome (past and present) than this particular one, or at least moderators far more guilty of it than Quix.

Edit: Good post, malkie .

 

Just to continue on from what KW posted :- how about we discuss the use of html rather than focus on a specific recent example.

 

I don't care if the mods decide to use a bit of html here and there, I don't care if they decide to have more interesting titles. If doesn't hurt me, it doesn't hurt you, it doesn't hurt anyone. Not everyone should be the same, not everything should be painted an identical shade of ocean grey.

It doesn't matter. I just can't understand where you get your ire from. Infact, I'm fairly sure you don't have any ire at all, and are simply out to question every single thing for the sake of eeking every little bit of drama from an increasingly dry stone.

'Ivory Tower', how ridiculous. If you want to see an enormous, terrible and even, very-terrible, gulf between yourself and a mod simply because they can use a bit of html occasionally and you can't, then it's not a case of the mods putting themselves in an ivory tower, it's a case of you putting yourself in a ditch somewhere.

 

As I said earlier, I've got no qualms refraining from using html - aside from very specific threads (e.g., index threads), I don't really see a need for it.

EDIT:

Hahahahaha, how are we supposed to have a collegial discussion when you're so interested in setting yourself apart from us because, as a mod, you're so much better?

(1) It is possible to disagree and still remain collegial. (2) I make no effort to set myself apart from other users. (3) I make no claims of superiority or inferiority. This is just a message board, not a way of life.

 

Hahahahaha, how are we supposed to have a collegial discussion when you're so interested in setting yourself apart from us because, as a mod, you're so much better?

First, stop with the personal attacks and insinuations. They don't help.

Now, relating to the actual issue, let's not blow it out of proportion.

Does it underscore the differences between normal users, moderators, and managers? Yes, it does, but what does it harm, as long as it is not taken to excess?

I admit that I have on occasion (only a bare handful of times) used HTML to emphasize a point. Usually, I've done that at times when I have gotten extremely frustrated with a user who wasn't reading anything I said, and then claiming that I said things I didn't. I only limited it to the <big><big>big</big></big> tag, and then never for more than a sentence.

Should I not have? Probably not. However, I (like all other moderators) am only human. If I have a tool available to use in a time like that, I'm likely going to use it. It's only human.

Most mods, when they are first promoted (or repromoted) to manager experiment with HTML a little, both in our test forums and sometimes in regular posts. Usually it only lasts for a little bit, and then it mostly stops. We are all keenly aware that we will not be managers forever, and that when we step down, our HTML posts will revert to plain text.

However, I think that this thread also speaks to an even larger problem. Was this issue taken up with the moderator in question before being brought to Comms? From QS's response, I doubt it. A matter like this (relating to a specific moderator's actions) should be taken to the mod in question first, and then to an admin, not directly to Comms. Such things create the impression that some users are simply waiting to raise a fuss over any perceived abuse by any mod.

Kimball Kinnison

 

how about we discuss the use of html rather than focus on a specific recent example.

That was my intention, I just included an example in my first post because someone was going to ask for one anyway.

here's far better examples of ivory tower syndrome (past and present) than this particular one

Oh, I know. Just in light of the recent title discussions, it seems to be getting worse.

(2) I make no effort to set myself apart from other users.

Which is why your idea of "goofing off" is using HTML to post messages in an attention grabbing font that no one but managers and admins can use. Oh yeah, not setting yourself apart at all!

However, I (like all other moderators) am only human. If I have a tool available to use in a time like that, I'm likely going to use it. It's only human.

But you also have willpower and self-control (hopefully). Why don't you automatically ban everyone who pisses you off? Because you have self-control and you know you shouldn't. Blaming abuse of power on your humanity is weak and indefensible at best.

as this issue taken up with the moderator in question before being brought to Comms? From QS's response, I doubt it.

If you'll look at the link in the first post, it was brought up at which point he replied "YUP! THERE'S NO EXCUSE FOR IT!"

After that I figured further one on one discussion would be pointless.

I also briefly talked to Malkie about it who recommended that Comms would be an appropriate forum for discussion.

 

If you want to interpret things like that as mods "setting ourselves apart because we're so much better," that's you choice. As with anything, people can find ways to be offended even when no offense or harm was intended.

 

Does it underscore the differences between normal users, moderators, and managers? Yes, it does, but what does it harm, as long as it is not taken to excess?

The harm is the actual setting apart, and that it can start someone down a slippery slope of gradual abuse and feeling above regular members. In this case, I'm certain it's not an issue. Generally speaking though, it can be.

Should I not have? Probably not. However, I (like all other moderators) am only human. If I have a tool available to use in a time like that, I'm likely going to use it. It's only human.

That's a poor excuse. At the very least, you should remove the HTML when you calm down (under those circumstances). Ideally, you'd have enough self-control not to use it at all.

In my view, HTML should never be used in circumstances where it presents an advantage over regular members, or in just about any regular post. It should only be used for moderator-related functions.

 

I've seen mods use their "html" abilities here and there and it isn't done in a way that is "lords it over us".

Quix is doing a good job as a moderator. It is a thankless job. The paycheck sucks and the rewards are minimal.

 

In my view, HTML should never be used in circumstances where it presents an advantage over regular members, or in just about any regular post. It should only be used for moderator-related functions.

But, there are times when it can be used, outside of moderator functions, and still be advantagous for the community as a whole. That is no different than the same point being made with titles. Where some people see a mod having the title "Senate Spin Doctor" as abuse, others see it as a community building experience. Similarly, where one person sees a mod using HTML like: <img src="http://us.st5.yimg.com/store1.yimg.com/I/demotivators_1843_7156203.jpg"> as an abuse, others see it as a similar community building experience.

It comes down to a matter of perception, and the presuppositions that some people make. If you are looking at an issue expecting a mod to act like they are better than others, or trying to abuse his powers, then you are more likely to see that. If you look at it and expect that mods are just trying to build community, or generally have good intentions, then you are more likely to see that as well.

Kimball Kinnison

 

No more personal comments. Last warning.

 

All of that rationalizing still can't change the fact that regular members cannot use HTML. Were everyone on a level playing field, it would be different. Regular members can't ban people and moderators can, but that's part of the job. The same is true even for colors and titles. HTML is entirely peripherial to moderating, except in cases of indexing, guides or other situations where it can be helpful. Even then, it must be remembered that HTML did not exist for moderators until 2003, and that we all got along just fine without it.

Who decides what is community building? Who decides if usage is appropriate or not? If it's not, what action is taken (if any)?

Speaking of perception, what do you think people will perceive from this post? Do you feel it was appropriate?

 

KW, please don't bring personal biases into this. That was from last year and you guys went round and round on that one.

Bottom line is QS probably shouldn't have used the html. I really prefer us to use it only in the MS Updates or for things nedding to grab everyone's attention. Anything beyond that and the perception is we're rubbing people's noses in it. I don't like that perception.

To all mods, please limit your html. Yes it can enhance a post and may be a little funny. The ramifications from it are long-lasting and can easily be avoided by never using it outside of MS Updates. Regarding QS, in all my time I've ever known him he's never come across as high and mighty or living in an Ivory Tower. His heart's in the right place and I'm sure he learned a lesson from this real quick.

 

Anything beyond that and the perception is we're rubbing people's noses in it.

My 'perception' is to smile, enjoy it if it's a bit of a joke... and move on.

 

Regarding QS, in all my time I've ever known him he's never come across as high and mighty or living in an Ivory Tower. His heart's in the right place and I'm sure he learned a lesson from this real quick.

I think that's the frustrating part for me. This is a worthy discussion or debate to be having, but not based on Quix's post. I'm certain he had good intentions, and won't ever do anything like this again.

 

KW, please don't bring personal biases into this. That was from last year and you guys went round and round on that one.

And yet it's perfectly relevant. Kimball's view is obviously that "abuse of power" = "community building" at the discretion of the mod who posted it. Just like his own last post in this thread which in most contexts would be considered baiting is just "community building" or "illustrating a point" (which could be illustrated just as well with words) because it was Kimball who posted it and it's Kimball who sets his own rules. This is what I'm talking about.

 

Unfortunatly for some stupid reason I can not do IGN codes in the Lit Review forum, so all of the threads I've created there in the last few months have been with HTML. Its on my end too as I've had a few mods try it in there and they can.

 

Is this issue any different than those with FireFox being able to use the funky reply feature?

After all, it's not fair to those who can't use Mozilla.

Is it any different than someone posting in all red?

What about someone posting in all caps, because their keyboard is "broken?"

When I first joined the boards here, I didn't know how to make text diffferent colors, or embed links into a post.

Where those who did being unfair to me, because I couldn't?

Because Q_S made a couple of words bigger than normal, it's the end of the world for some JC users?

Why don't we require that everyone post in the same standard block letters, and prohibit the use of emoticons, italics, boldface, and anything else that may have one user stand out among other users.

After all, it's the only way to be fair.

 

Kimball, why drop a huge html embedded image into a Comms thread about mods abusing their powers?