JA #15 *Spoilers*

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Cow_Girl, Sep 12, 2001.

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  1. Cow_Girl Chapter Rep Niagara ON, CA

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    Jun 15, 2001
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    Okay I have now read the book and I must say that I loved it. I think that it was the best book yet. Way more angst than the last one and Obi-wan finally has a very active role in this book and is no longer just part of the scenery. There were so many twists that I never would have seen coming. And when Tahl, died, which we all saw coming, It was incredibly sad. And talk about a cliffhanger! If everybody thought that the cliffhanger in "The ties that Bind" was bad, you have not seen anything yet.
    That my little rant for now...
    Has anybody else had the cahnce to read it yet?

    CG :)
  2. Sturm Antilles Former Manager

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    Jun 22, 2000
    star 6
    You can lock your other thread.
  3. Cow_Girl Chapter Rep Niagara ON, CA

    Chapter Rep
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    Jun 15, 2001
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    Thanks,
    Um, could you please tell me how to that?
  4. Daanyani Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2001
    Hey All!

    I'm glad you liked it, and I'm excited to go get it...I'm also happy to hear obi-wan is in more of the action now. Where did you get the book? I heard it was to come out Sept. 5th...my local Waldens said it's due out on their shelves in October...but Borders usually good about, sometimes that is. So what bookstore did everyone find it at?
  5. naw ibo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 1999
    star 5
    No I haven't...I can't wait...what's the ending? I mean, it's a spoiler thread right? ;) More details please. :D LOL!
  6. Cow_Girl Chapter Rep Niagara ON, CA

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    Jun 15, 2001
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    Spoiler Space






    I'm warning you,lots and lots of Spoliers









    Sure I can telling you the ending but remeber you asked, here are the
    last lines in the book...

    He placed a hand on Qui-gon's shoulder
    "Let me help you Master"
    Qui-gons eyes were dead "There is no help for me now."
    Qui-gon looked down at Tahls body. His Hand still clapsed hers "There is only revenge"

    Yes another great Cliffhanger. The sad thing is that Jude watson kind of gives the impression That Tahl is going to pull through.
    But Before she Dies she tells Qui-gon "I have always been a solitary Traveler, where-ever I am going I will wait for you"
    and that made me cry.
    Another things is that Qui-gons visions are described to be dark, when they are not, In every falshback that he has Tahl and Qui-gon get younger and younger. In the last vison they are both eight and skipping class. Which was funny becasue when they were hiding from yoda, Qui-gon was terrified and Tahl almost burst out laughing.
    The next book is going to be great becauase Qui-gon is going to hunt down Tahls Killer
    cough balog cough.
    He had it coming from all the horrible stuff he has done
    One of the most chilling scenes is when Obi-wan is waitng and he hears and awful scream and he can't figure out what it was and then he realizes that Tahl has died.
    To anybody that thoguht Qui-gon ignored Obi way to much in the other book and wooried about tahl to much you will be happy to know that theres a part when Obi-wan hurts himself and Qui-gon decides t Help him instead of racing off like he wanted too..

    So how was that, Have I spoiled you rotten?

    If you want more Just ask :)
  7. naw ibo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 1999
    star 5
    Sounds good...but...wait a minute..."Obi-Wan hurts himself"...I don't know if I like that, it sounds like it makes it Obi-Wan's fault he hurts himself. Is this the case? If it is, then Watson has me on her case again. She'd better not make it seem like his fault Qui-Gon isn't able to get to Tahl in time. I don't trust her as far as I can throw her and as I'm sure I'm sure that isn't very far... ;)
  8. Jedi-Faith Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2000
    star 2
    Obi hurts himself? How?

    The week I'm not home is the week I can find the book... *sigh* Well, until I grab my own copy, keep the spoilers coming!!! :D
  9. ODJ_13 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2001
    I've just started to read the books when my frind had one of the first ones (I think it is no. 5) Then I found no. 6 in a shop but I cant find any others from no. 6 onwards exept like no. 14 where can I get the books!(My local book shop said that it cant get them for a year!)
  10. Cow_Girl Chapter Rep Niagara ON, CA

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    Have you considered odering from the internet? Barnesandnobles.com and amazon.com are two of the biiger sites that have all the books of the series on sale. Or you may want to try ebay or something along those lines..
  11. Jedi-Faith Jedi Master

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    Dec 21, 2000
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    Cow Girl, how did Obi hurt himself?!?! :D
  12. naw ibo Force Ghost

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    Mar 18, 1999
    star 5
    How does Obi-Wan hurt himself?

    (got your back Jedi-Faith LOL!)
  13. Jedi-Faith Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2000
    star 2
    naw ibo, LOL!

    Glad I'm not the only curious about that... hehe!

    I swear I'm going to lose my mind over the weekend from knowing that this book is out, knowing that it's quite possibly the best one so far, and knowing I won't even see it until Friday at the earliest!

    I'm going to go CRAZY!!!!! :_|
  14. Cow_Girl Chapter Rep Niagara ON, CA

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    The jedi are using a droid tracker to track down Tahls kidnapper, Balog. Eritha (The good twin) has followed them into the desert too. There is a scene where some miners are using all this mining equipment to attack them. Qui-gon graps Eritha and gets her to cover and Obi-wan goes after the seeker droid becasue they need it in one piece to find Tahl. There is an explosion and a rock hits the droid smashing it and another large rock nails poor Obi in the leg as he is jumping up to save it. The miners stop attacking them after that and Qui-gon takes Obi-wan to the camp to have his lef looked after which sets him back another day. The thing that I loved about that scene (Expect for Obi-wans leg thing, ouch) Is that we finally get to see Qui-gon really look out for Obi-wan instead of racing off like he was tempted too. Espically when Obi-wan was usaully the cause of any set back on the way to resuce Tahl...It really was not Obi-wans fault that he got hurt, he was only doing what Qui-gon told him to do, bad luck was really all it was, and Qui-gon does not balme him either, the ohter set back is before the leg incident and Obi-wans speeder gets hit by a blaster and breaks down

    In case anyone was wondering what I meant by "The good twin" Alani is the twin that is is league with Balog, and that is plotting against the jedi and Ertiha is the one that helps the jedi, I got he sense that something may have been happening Between Eritha and Obi-wan...

    Jedi Faith-I hope that you are able to find "The death of Hope on friday, if it helps you from going cray just keep asking questions and I will do my best to answear them if that helps :)
  15. naw ibo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 1999
    star 5
    Man, I just knew it. Vintage Watson--of course every set back is in some way, shape or form going to be Obi-Wan's fault, inadvertantly or not. I really, really have to stop reading these things. ;) They just end up getting me all annoyed. Sure Obi-Wan's involved but he just ends up delaying things. Qui-Gon has no trouble leaving the kid alone to face a murder charge so he can help a perfectly safe and capable Tahl, but Obi-Wan hurts his leg and suddenly Qui-Gan delays himself a day when she's obviously in great physical danger? I'd understand it if maybe it was a lifethreatening injury, but unless you're telling me he cuts an artery--it's just a leg.

    It's inconsistent and, although I haven't read it yet, I wouldn't be surprised that once I do I find that it is done basically to keep Qui-Gon in his nearly sainted status. "Oh look at that, see, he stayed behind with his padawan instead of going off to find his love--isn't he just wonderful:[face_sigh]:". She should have been consistent and had him leave Obi-Wan behind AND still be too late to save Tahl, Obi-Wan probably would have tried to catch up later anyway--and it might have forced her to deal with Obi's emotions a little bit more complexly than she usually does.

    Maybe I'll just wait till the Obi/Ani series and hope she changes her ways. Doesn't seem like that's happening though.

    QUESTION: How is Qui-Gon's breaking of the Jedi rules regarding his relationship with Tahl portrayed? I mean, what do they let us know about how the Jedi are set up and what they are and aren't allowed to do?
  16. Darth Pipes Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 12, 1999
    star 5
    I got it today and really enjoyed it. Qui-Gon runs the gauntlet of emotions in this. I really enjoyed the Qui-Gon/Tahl flashbacks in the book. I also have found the political subplot increasingly interesting.

    For all those who were disappointed by Obi-Wan's lack of involvement in the last one, we see a lot more of him in this book.

    I was disappointed that Qui and Tahl didn't kiss, I have to admit. They finally had two Jedi in love, they should have finished it.

    All and all, a very good book. This next book should be very interesting. Not only is Balog a target for Qui but I would imagine that Alani is as well. I don't trust Maneux in this either.
  17. Jedi-Faith Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2000
    star 2
    It might not be to keep his sainted status. I see it as an explanation of why Qui-Gon won't turn to the dark side forever, because in the end, Obi will probably the only one who will stand between him and exacting revenge on all those people responsible for Tahl's death. He was willing to be set back a day when Obi was injured, and I think that the reason(s) for which he will drop the vengeance quest will be related to his Padawan somehow.

    And the way he's willing to stop and not rush off this time isn't really inconsistent if you look at it a certain way... The trial happened 3 years prior to JA 15; in 14, there's a part that mentions how their relationship has grown over the years. Perhaps in SE, Qui might have been willing to drop Obi for Tahl, but now it might not be as easy of a decision...

    Just a thought :)

    As for Eritha and Obi-Wan, it's not hard to imagine that Jude might create something between them, since they're the same age... CG, thanks for the offer, but short of typing the whole book out for me, nothing can keep me from insanity :D I'm going to explore the city around the campus tomorrow, and I hope I will come across a bookstore :)
  18. naw ibo Force Ghost

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    Mar 18, 1999
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    Jedi-Faith, the trial happened when Obi-Wan was 15, he is 16 now. It only happened last year(JA time). From the way it sounds, it sounds inconsistent to me. MOST especially when taking into consideration his lack of consideration in just the last book(14). Now all of sudden he can't leave him because he hurt his leg? Padawan on trial for murder(big charge this)--leaves him for perfectly safe female he has the hots for but won't admit it. Padawan hurts leg--stays despite fact that same female he has hots for is in mortal danger.

    It sounds like a plot device, not a great one at that. It's one thing if he was practically at death's door, but if they could go on the next day then it wasn't that serious--it just isn't that big a deal, however much it hurts. Heck I'd even say Qui-Gon should have gone on in this case, it was a dumb decision(although I wait to say that for sure until I've actually read the book LOL! ) that makes no sense.
  19. Jedi-Faith Jedi Master

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    Dec 21, 2000
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    I always thought SE took place right after Day of Reckoning... hmm... never mind then [face_blush]
  20. Darth Pipes Force Ghost

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    Oct 12, 1999
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    But Obi-Wan was in physical danger in the SE. That is the big difference. In the SE, Obi-Wan was in a very serious situation but he wasn't injured and/or going to die. In this one, he didn't want to leave him alone when the swoop broke because of the possibility of fighting breaking out between the two factions. You can argue he could have left Obi-Wan in the camp but if he did, Obi-Wan might have been killed in the raid. It was a tough decision for Qui-Gon to make but in the end it was the right one.
  21. naw ibo Force Ghost

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    Mar 18, 1999
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    Well, he certainly could have been in some kind of physical danger had he been convicted, but none-the-less--I'm not comparing what Obi-Wan is going through on each of those occassions to each other but what the situations themselves.

    In the SE, Obi-Wan is facing a murder charge and he is left to face it almost completely on his own because Qui-Gon decides to go off helping Tahl, who is in no danger of anything at the time. In this one(I don't know exactly what happened with the speeder which is why I didn't mention it and only the leg injury), Obi-Wan's leg gets injured but Tahl is in mortal danger.

    That is why Qui-Gon's behavior is inconsistent. When he's not got anything all that serious to worry about in the SE but wants to help the lovely Tahl, he can't be bothered to be with his padawan who is facing at the very least a great emotional upheaval with the murder trial, but now suddenly he won't leave him behind with an injured leg(Cow_Girl said the fighting stopped at that point) when self same lovely Tahl to whom he's just pledged himself forever is in known danger of losing her life?

    It would have been more consistent to have Qui-Gon leave Obi-Wan(who was fine by the next day anyway), go off after Tahl and then have Obi-Wan "catch up" somehow later with the end result still being the same with Tahl's death. But then that might have forced her to deal with certain issues she avoids like the plague when it comes to Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon's relationship so it doesn't really surprise me.
  22. Cow_Girl Chapter Rep Niagara ON, CA

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    I was really surprised that Qui-gon did not leave Obi-wan. in both of the cases (Speeder, leg) and at one point Obi-wan does tell him to go ahead. Qui-gon does not want to leave alone becuase he fears that Balogs men may still be about. Hmmm, lets think about this, Trained jedi padawan w/lightsaber or a weakned jedi knight that does not have a lightsaber and is paralzyed anyways...Yeah, it doesn't make any sense at all...
  23. Jedi-Faith Jedi Master

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    Dec 21, 2000
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    One could argue that Qui-Gon was preventing the possibility of losing another person to Balog. I'm sure Qui-Gon as a very experienced Jedi Master would've had no problem fending for himself, but I could see Obi-Wan getting captured if he was left to deal with too many opponents at the same time...

    BUT! I would probably find the book even more interesting if Obi got abducted as well... :D

    In SE, aside from providing moral support, there was nothing else Qui-Gon could've done. In this book, him going ahead without his apprentice could've resulted in grave consequences.

    And, I found the book!!! :D But, I've decided to not read it until I've finished reading my four textbooks... I'm using it as incentive to finish my school work :D
  24. Darth Pipes Force Ghost

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    Oct 12, 1999
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    Not to mention Qui-Gon has an obligation to Obi-Wan as his master.
  25. naw ibo Force Ghost

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    Without moral support? I really don't think anyone is looking at the seriousness of leaving Obi-Wan alone to deal with that murder trial. He's a 15 year old who was traumatized by the death itself and now he's being put on trial for it. In reality the lack of moral support in that situation on the part of his Master probably would have had a more profound impact on Obi-Wan as a person than almost any other event.

    Of course, as usual, this effect was almost completely glossed over by the author because it would have meant dealing with aspects of their relationship she doesn't really want to deal with because it wouldn't exactly show Qui-Gon in the best light.

    Qui-Gon had a responsibility to his padawan then during that murder trial and had no trouble leaving him to deal with on his own. That could certainly have grave emotional consequences on him.

    To all of a sudden have him wait because Obi-Wan hurts his leg(and again, it couldn't have been that bad if they could go on the next day) is just a way of getting out of dealing with that situation again. Qui-Gon gave him very little guidance in #5 on M/D mainly because he was so entirely focused on Tahl that he neglected his duties as a master thus leading to Obi-Wan's deciding to stay on Melida/Daan because Qui-Gon didn't nip it in the bud. Then he leaves him to deal with a murder trial virtually alone so he can help Tahl with her little investigation.

    But now Obi-Wan hurts his leg and Qui-Gon won't leave him to go on after defenseless, blind, injured Tahl to whom he has recently just pledged himself in undying devotion? That doesn't fit with the progression. If it did, Qui-Gon would have left Obi-Wan there and gone after Tahl.

    Then Ms Watson would have had to deal with this theme that has run throughout the series. This is a serious issue in Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon's relationship and it's constantly brushed aside probably because it would be a more serious issue in Obi-Wan's psyche rather than in Qui-Gon's. She'd have to focus on his mind in a more in-depth and involved way.
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