CT Jabba's Palace??

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by The Supreme Chancellor, Sep 7, 2013.

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  1. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    This has to have been brought up before, but I haven't seen it yet so I'm taking the time to talk about it..I have several questions about the whole debacle in Jabba's Palace mainly, when Luke offered the droids to Jabba he had to have one of the following plans on his mind:

    a. He was being honest/genuine and wanted a peaceful resolution with Jabba, which is fine for everyone except the droids who will be doomed to a life of poor treatment and abuse, odd choice seeing how Artoo is pretty much his best friend at this point.

    b. He planned to get a peaceful resolution and then steal the droids back? Or try to be an indian giver and expect Jabba to give them back?

    c. He planned the whole thing as it went and was intending to kill Jabba from the beginning.

    Secondly! Why would Leia pull the whole thermal detonator debacle and draw so much attention to herself? Why not just act like a normal bounty hunter and fly under the radar a bit more? And if the plan was simply to steal Han out of carbon freeze and screw Jabba over...why not just have Luke dress the part!?

    There's more..but let's address these issues first.
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  2. gambit420 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2003
    star 2
    Because most of it was written and directed by the flawed mind of George Lucas. He had already started his downhill slide after 1977 when he won his creative freedom from the studios. And yes George directed more of this movie than Richard Marquand.
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  3. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    1) Luke had several contingency plans for what occurred at Jabba's Palace. Obviously, Plan A was for Leia to rescue Han (and the droids at the same time), then calmly walk out of there. When that didn't work, he came in himself. Knowing Jabba's character, his Plan B was him expecting that they would be taken for execution to the Sarlacc Pit, hence the reason why he concealed his lightsaber inside Artoo.

    2) Such an act was consistent with Boushh's reputation. "This bounty hunter is my kind of scum, fearless and inventive." By threatening Jabba with the detonator, Leia gained respect from both Jabba's court and Jabba himself. That would then allow Leia to wander around the palace more freely.
  4. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4

    "rescue" the droids..or steal them back. Remember he said that they were gifts. Leia also didn\t need to follow Boushh's reputation, clearly Jabba didn't know him.
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  5. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    your C is subtext in the ROTJ novel-Luke was apparently wanting a confrontation per that, and Jabba being Jabba, gave him one.

    Just as an aside, I timed how long it took for Luke to kill Jabba's entire crew a few years ago-44 guys in about 4 1/2 minutes. Don't mess with a Jedi Knight, y'hear :p
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  6. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    Perhaps Jabba didn't know who Boushh was, but other members of the court certainly did. Boba Fett knew of Boushh's reputation, for one. See Mara Jade's tale in Tales From Jabba's Palace.
  7. thebeanpole Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 11, 2013
    star 2
    I wonder what Lando thought of the plan...

    [IMG]
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  8. Aegon Starcaster Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2013
    star 2
    By this time, we know that Luke can glimpse the future.
    But he at least had to offer Jaba the opportunity to do the right thing before going all "Old Republic" on the slug's butt.
    Last edited by Aegon Starcaster, Sep 7, 2013
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  9. Legolas Skywalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 6
    He wanted to get rid of the droids because he didn't like them :p
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  10. Badger_Legion Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2008
    star 1
    Don't forget Chewbacca. She would have to rescue Han in the central chamber, Chewy in the palace jail, R2D2 (who was probably on the sail barge at this point), and C3PO (who always seems to be at Jabba's side). Call me crazy, but that sounds like a really dumb plan. Especially when you consider that Lando had already infiltrated Jabba's court and could have tried to rescue Han the same way she did, except he wouldn't have had to worry about the droids or Chewy.
  11. Sur-Gon Jinn Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2013
    honestly it's called plot. The heroes are always as dumb as the plot demands.

    the whole thing was an elaborate way to get the "crew" together in Jabba's Palace for the entire escape scene.

    I know that takes the fun out of the discussion but.....sometimes things in movies are just like that..contrived.
  12. StoneRiver Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 6, 2004
    star 4
    As ridiculous as it sounds, I think we, the audience are supposed to believe that Luke's plan went exactly as it was supposed to.

    Lando went in first to get the layout and make reports back.
    The droids were sent in so the lightsabre was there. (screw Threepio?)
    Leia arrived with Chewie (so that Chewie could be thrown in jail?)
    Leia frees Han, who is thrown into jail. Leia is enslaved. (Still part of the plan? really?)
    Luke tells Jabba he's taking them all back so get's thrown to the Rancor. (Did he know this would happen? Possibly)
    Luke angers Jabba enough to have him get Han and Chewie out of prison and send them all outside to be killed. (What about the others?)
    When outside on the Skiff, he tells Han to stick close to Lando (who conveniently got the job on the main execution Skiff?)
    Lightsabre flies across the sky (Who'd have known R2 would be on the deck to do that?)

    Silly, but I think we're supposed to believe that was the plan. And hey, for my enjoyment of the films and the story, I do :)
  13. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    Idunno, I always felt that as a Jedi it should have been Luke's responsibility to do his utmost to come to a peaceful resolution, but it seemed that he never intended for one.
  14. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    The peaceful solution was for Leia to free Han and then walk out of there. When that didn't work, Luke came in to give Jabba a final chance to let them go. When that didn't work, Luke knew it was time to kick some butt. And that's why he sent the droids in, to be a contingency plan, since Luke suspected Jabba would have them all executed at the Sarlacc pit. Luke just hadn't planned on being fed to the rancor as well.
  15. Mr. K Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 1999
    star 5
    Yeah, that rancor was kind of a wrench in the plan.
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  16. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    ANAKIN: "And when I got to there, we went into...aggressive negotiations."

    PADME: "Aggressive negotiations?"

    ANAKIN: "Uh, well, negotiations with a Lightsaber."

    timmoishere hit the nail on the head. Luke did what his father and Obi-wan would have done in this situation. He wanted to resolve the matter diplomatically, but Chewie and Lando made it clear that Jabba doesn't work that way. So Luke took the time to plan out the rescuing, without bringing in an armada of troops and coercing the situation to his advantage.
  17. Joe Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 25, 2012
    star 6
    There really is no reason why Luke didn't go in as Boushh besides that George wanted the big 'Walk into the palace in robes' reveal of Jedi Knight Luke.
  18. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    Well, that would have been an awkward moment if Han tried to kiss Luke once Boushh's helmet was removed...
  19. topgoalscorer_no11 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 23, 2001
    star 3

    Maybe Leia demanded the job - she was Han's girlfriend after all. Maybe it was her idea. She's a grown woman and makes her own decisions. Don't really see why it was Luke's business more than hers.
  20. Lord Chazza Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 4, 2013
    star 4
    At the end of the day Luke was a Jedi and I think he always expected to go into the palace and deal with Jabba aggressively and I think he thought himself more than capable of dealing with Jabba and his posse (which he definitely was). Nevertheless, Lukes plan was very risky on multiple levels. What if Jabba decided to execute all of his prisoners on sight without any theatrics? Luke clearly hadn't considered this. He was counting on his Jedi skills to carry the day and in the end they did but it could have gone very differently. I always thought it displayed a certain amount of arrogance that Luke had not yet got under control (arrogance that a Jedi should not act upon) and gave legitimacy to Yoda's claim that he was not yet a Jedi.
  21. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Using the Force to see multiple futures will yield the best possible outcome. That's what Luke's plan entailed.
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  22. Lord Chazza Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 4, 2013
    star 4
    Yes but there were still a lot of unnecessary risks in my view. Luke's foresight was hardly foolproof was it? As far as we can tell he was only aware that his friends were in pain in the city of the clouds in episode 5. He was unable to foresee what would happen to them hence him rushing off to face Vader. Plus, did he foresee the rancor? Was he even aware that the rancor pit existed? I think not.
    Last edited by Lord Chazza, Sep 16, 2013
  23. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    No, but life is full of uncertainties. That's the point of the lesson that he learned from his failure at Bespin. The trick is to adapt to the situation, otherwise you'll suffer the consequences. Luke wasn't aware of the Rancor Pit, as evidenced by Threepio trying to warn him before being cut off. Remember, no one knew about the Imperial fleet hiding on the other side of Endor and the garrison waiting near the shield generator. There was great risk involved there as well.
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  24. Kenneth Morgan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 27, 1999
    star 3
    And again...

    Okay, I’ve posted this several times over the years, but I may as well post it again. I must note that much of it is based on speculation and extrapolation from what is seen in the movies themselves. Anyway, on to Luke’s plan.

    Using the Alliance to get Han out was not an option. Han, after all, is just one man, and the Rebels can’t spare an attack team with air cover to rescue one man, no matter who he is. Besides, Han was encased in a carbonite block in the middle of the palace. By the time the strike team gets to him, it’s a safe bet Boba Fett would’ve blasted him to pieces on Jabba’s order. So, Luke has to resort to what is essentially a con game. He’s got to get Jabba to basically hand Han over to him, rather than try to take him. So, he devises an operation, with multiple fail-safe points, to accomplish this. Here’s how it goes:

    Luke puts together his own version of the IMF, consisting of himself, Leia, Lando, Chewie, Artoo and Threepio. They all rendezvous on Tatooine and get to work (though he keeps certain parts of the operation from Threepio, given the droid’s talkative nature). Lando goes in first, as Luke’s inside man. He’s a former con artist, so he knows how to put together a passable fake identity and slip in. He checks out the area and sends word back to Luke, then sticks around to help.

    Next, the droids go in with a legitimate offer to buy Han’s freedom. (Remember, Leia’s rich; she can afford it.) Luke offers the droids as a gift just to sweeten the deal, and, in Artoo’s case, provide a weapon he might need later. If this works, an exchange is arranged and Han is freed, with Lando getting the droids out when he leaves. But, it doesn’t work. So…

    Leia goes in, disguised as Boussh, to infiltrate the palace, with Chewie along to provide her with a legitimate reason for being there, along with street cred and needed muscle if the situation comes to it. She’ll sneak into the audience chamber to free Han and get him clear. Meanwhile, Lando will free Chewie to help out, and then get himself and the droids out. If it works, they all escape before Jabba catches on. But, it doesn’t work. So…

    Luke goes in, unarmed, to try to mind trick Jabba into releasing Han. Sure, it might look odd for Jabba to suddenly go along with Luke’s wishes. But, hey, he’s the guy in charge; who’s going to argue with him? If it works, Luke takes the prisoners with him and Lando & the droids sneak out the back. But, it doesn’t work. So…

    Luke tries a mild threat on Jabba. Yes, he says he could destroy Jabba, but Luke also still gives the impression that they could still strike a deal. He also warns Jabba of what he could expect if he decides to fight it out. If it works, Luke and the prisoners leave and Lando & the droids get clear. But, it doesn’t work. So…

    Luke tries to kill Jabba, an attempt that is purposely meant to fail. Luke’s not an idiot. He knows that even if he gets lucky and takes Jabba’s head off, Boba and the guards will cut him down on the spot. In any case, the purpose isn’t killing Jabba. The purpose is getting dropped into the Rancor’s nest, and killing the beast. This is important; there’s no Plan B. This is a crisis point, and if it fails, the rest of the plan falls apart. But, it doesn’t fail; Luke kills the Rancor, greatly angering Jabba. So…

    Jabba finds Luke’s actions so insulting that he doesn’t just have everybody zapped at once. He sentences them to get tossed to the Sarlaac, which is exactly what Luke wanted. Check the scene; when sentence is passed, Luke has a little smile and is nodding. He may as well be saying, “Got you, you son of a bantha!” So, it’s off to the Sarlaac.

    There, Luke tries to avoid conflict one last time. He’s plain on the subject: “Free us, or die.” If it works, the good guys head for the hills and Jabba goes home. But, it doesn’t work. And here we are.

    Luke’s hands are free, and he’s all set. Han is awake and ambulatory. Chewie and Lando are nearby, ready to move. Leia’s inside, waiting for her chance. Artoo is on deck, with Luke’s lightsaber. And Jabba is outside of his palace and away from the bulk of his guards, and he has no idea of what’s about to happen. The dominoes are in place, and Luke just has to knock down the first one.

    That, people, is one well-made plan. It’s flexible, it accurately measures Jabba’s weaknesses (pride and overconfidence), it has several points where it can smoothly switch tracks, and it gives Jabba several chances to just walk away without the need for violence. And, when it gets to the big finish, it takes Jabba and his cronies down but good. As far as I’m concerned, Jim Phelps and his team couldn’t have done any better.

    Over to you…
  25. Beezer Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 5, 2013
    star 4
    I've always considered Luke as doing more training and Jedi stuff during this time.... I don't mean, like, training with Yoda since he hasn't gone back to Dagobah yet, but rather just meditating, getting ready, etc. I think the plan was to try for Boussh to "steal" Han and get away using stealth instead of a direct confrontation. Of course, that begs the question of how they would get Chewbacca and the droids, so maybe Lando was a part of that.

    I think Luke's primary plan was to Jedi Mind Trick his way through it. He certainly tries to Mind Trick Jabba and seems surprised when that fails. The lightsaber was smuggled in as a last resort which, of course, they had to fall back on. He also seems genuinely interested in bargaining for Solo instead of fighting. Of course, as mentioned above, there's no telling what would have happened to the droids if Jabba said "OK, you can have Han for 20,000 credits". Maybe they would try to buy Chewie and the droids too....
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