Jacen Solo (DJ spoilers maybe some SbS too)

What I meant is :

The Vong did what they did to Tahiri to Jacen. That is, he is dead, but in a certain way. Some speculate that Jacen will fight Jaina in HC4 and I think it'll probably happen.

But that's only speculation...

 

Right, but the Shapers didn't really finish their experiment on Tahiri. So I guess you mean Nen Yim actually does finish shaping Jacen?

 

Indeed.

 

After the transformation, is it possible that Jacen completely "feels" the Yuuzhan Vong through the Force and hence momentarily disconnected from others?

 

Yup, maybe that could be the case. We'll have to see, though... Wait and see.

 

this would explain why Harrar is worried that Jacen didn't survive afterall when we know that he was sucessfully captured.

 

He's probably going through a Breaking. The Vong are trying to Break him so he will fight Jaina if they get her. Therefore, he's going to be in a lot of pain than his last Breaking, with no other Jedi (not counting Vergere) around to give him strength.

 

Me thinks Jacen has to be Jacen Jaina's twin not "Jacen personality crisis" for this whole sacrafice thing to work. The vong are very Literal.

If Jacen doesnt realize he is killing his twin whats the point?

 

It seems like the Vong grudgingly have drawn comparisons between Jaina and Yun-Harla the Trickster. She hasn't discouraged them.

The literal-minded Vong might want to shape Jacen into their vision of what a 'true warrior' is so that the battle is a real tribute to their gods. Remember, the other - male - twin is Yun-Yammka the Slayer.

Whatever you may think about Jacen, I don't think an you'd even call an unshaped Jacen Solo 'the Slayer'. I think it would make perfect sense for them to shape him into a Vong warrior so that the duel/sacrifice they want is as representative of their views as possible and a true send-up to the gods.

 

hes being attacked and broken by the vong,but Tsavong Lah would never allow Jacen to be converted into a Dark Jeedai like Tahri was supposed to be.

 

Maybe it's not up to Tsavong Lah anymore? Afterall, Shimmra did take Nen Yim under his/her wings for a reason?

 

Someone posted the idea that Rebel Dream, Traitor, and Dark Journey all take place at the same time, just in different places. If so, I think we very well may have seen Jacen's death. I mean, even Luke admits that he's dead.

The thing that has me curious is this: Everyone was crushed when they felt Anakin's death. Why not when they felt Jacen's? Seems a few more people harbored dislike for this kid than we knew about...

JMA

 

Hmmm, if they view Jacen as the embodiment of Yun Yammaka there is no way they would let him duel the Jania (Yun Harla). It seems that that could create a rift between the priest and warrior castes of the vong and make it very difficult for them to work together.

 

hes being attacked and broken by the vong, but Tsavong Lah would never allow Jacen to be converted into a Dark Jeedai like Tahri was supposed to be.

Mateo, I truly hope that you are right. But ?Vergere- has a point that this probably isn?t in Lah?s hands anymore. Shimra (sp?) is most likely the one overseeing this project. It is too important to the Vong to just let the second in command take care of it.

I also hope that you are right about them not wanting to shape Jacen. To turn Jacen into a Vong and give him an ?unfair advantage? would be a disgrace to this holy ritual (or so I hope).

Everyone was crushed when they felt Anakin's death. Why not when they felt Jacen's? Seems a few more people harbored dislike for this kid than we knew about...

JMA, it might be that they felt Jacen?s ?death? so much differently than they felt Anakin?s, that it created a different response. Remember that Kyp didn?t feel Anakin?s death, but he did feel Jacen?s supposed death. That means that the ripple through the Force was vastly different for what happened to Jacen than what happened to Anakin.

Hmmm, if they view Jacen as the embodiment of Yun Yammaka there is no way they would let him duel the Jania (Yun Harla). It seems that that could create a rift between the priest and warrior castes of the vong and make it very difficult for them to work together.

JHC_JEDI, interesting. However, if the Vong only saw Jacen and Jaina as the GFFA?s version of Yun Yammaka and Yun Harla (different versions of the same gods), they would be eager to set the GFFA?s gods at war with each other. Their own gods wouldn?t be the one?s fighting with each other.

But then again, a rift between the priest and warrior casts sounds very likely?

 

WHats the point in having him dule Jaina If hes is hoped up like a rabid puma?

Jacen fights with cold calculation. If he thinks fights like a Vong in a fight with Jaina, shs will turn him into Frisco style lowmain. Especialy if the think in Jacen/Jaina Yammaka/Harla terms. Lah is obviously rooting for Jacen (Pobably to kill him after the fight) as well as the warriors. It not going to sit well with the troops if their horse losses.

Shimmera Knows the YV gods if they exsists don't interfair with the affairs of mortals. If the Troops get discouraged cause Harla in carnate wins they will not preform as wellon the battle field.

Shure the priest will be happy. But the priests don't fight.

 

I Just had a though! May the Fong froze him in a carbonite like substance. Only more painful.


Or they could have pulled an X-Men and have a Yammosk hit himwith a Pisonic bullet shattering his psyche. Which also would have hurt.

 

I still think that there's some connection with the kiss that Anakin asked Jacen to give Tahiri. I thought it was a little odd in SBS when Vergere got in the way of Tenel Ka's attempt to kiss Jacen. I just have the feeling that there's something significant in it, even though I know I'm probably reading too much into it. But, maybe it's Anakin's way of telling the rest of Jedi what he discovered about the Force in Conquest. Maybe, that's the way that he and Tahiri will be greater than the sum of their parts. Oh well, I guess only time will tell.

I do think that Jacen has gone Vong, and that he will fight Jaina in Destiny's Way. I mean, with all the Yuuzhan Vong talking of the destiny of twins, I won't be surprised if that's the source of the book's title. Of course, by turning Vong, Jacen might also discover what Anakin discovered about the Force. I guess, that once again, time will tell...

 

find a new name, ghentzz, that one is obviously already taken.

 

In mythology, gods often faced defeat at the hands of other gods yet they were still worshipped. A victory by a Yun-Harla analog will not shake the warrior's faith in Yun-Yammka. They worship both, they favor and emulate one. They might believe that the victory portends a certain approach, but it won't take the fight out of anyone if this is portrayed realistically.

Deception and aggression are both favored by the Yuuzhan Vong. If a 'Yun-Harla' won a duel, it would only signify to their leaders that deception is to be favored in future endeavors. But this one incident isn't going to force them to abandon aggression.

It's not like modern religion where there is an absolute acknowledgement and devotion to one god - if someone else's god beats up your god it's because their religion was right and yours was wrong. They are polytheistic. Yun-Yammka is still powerful, but the duel indicates that Yun-Harla should be favored and used more in order to win the battle. They will still fight, but they may be swayed to use more cunning. Yun-Yammka is not any weaker, no more than an ancient greek or roman might think that Zeus is weak because Hera deceived him. He's still the 'father figure' god. It shows them a direction to take, not a way of life to adopt. They won't hang up their amphistaves for priest robes.

 

Here's a theory:Vergere explains to Jacen Solo why the Yuuzhan Vong cannot be sensed in the Force,she then connects his mind to her mind and teaches him how to sense them,in the process Jacen is disconnected from the force and the other Jedi, Vergere and jacen say goodbye through the force and everyone mistakes it for jacens death exept Leia.

 

Or Jacen gets wacked in the boys by Lah in revenge for his foot.

Or Jacen Pulled a Jmaes Bond on a Vong babe and Well.. Ewwwwwwww...

 

jacen's "death" happened relatively early in DJ. So i'm under the asumption that he can't be dead or Traitor will be an awfully short book. I say this because Kyp feels it on the way to Hapes which isn't but ,what, maybe three to five days from Coruscant? That means he feels this pain not to long after the end of SbS. In short IF Jacen's dead then Traitor can't be too much about him, unless it spans maybe a week.

 

very good analysis, Sinje.

I was thinking the same thing about Tahiri. She will be important in getting Jacen out of Vong hands.

1. She was captured herself, knows what it can be like and wants to prevent Jacen suffering similarly.

2. She loved Anakin and would do this as a tribute to Anakin's brother

3. she can speak the language and understand Vong in a way others cannot.

Between Vergere and Tahiri, maybe it will be Jacen to tip the balance in this war, as he saw in his vision in BP.

I hope Traitor reveals much about Vergere. She shielded herself from the other Jedi except Jacen - maybe she taught this to Jacen and that's why everyone feels him "die."

Vergere goes back to OR times. She must have known Obi Wan, definitely Yoda, etc. I think she's on the side of the Jedi.

 

Thus when Jacen dies, Anakin takes over in Jacen's body

this would be mightily confusing to Jaina. Could send her back to the dark side! -)

 

Tsavong Lah gave an order that no more Jedi were to be shaped, they failed with Tahiri and weren't going to try anymore. Do you think he would give a big order like that if he thought Shimmara or whatever his name is would disagree. I mean sure he could but it just seems that's an awfully large order and you think he wouldn't say it unless he was fairly sure his boss would agree with him. Who knows? Hey wouldn't it be a weird twist if Jacen turns up dead and Anakin turns up alive instead of vice versa like there trying to make us believe? How's that for playing with your head?