Fanclub Jacen Solo Fan Club: Forever in the Light

Discussion in 'EU Community' started by -Vergere-, Oct 14, 2001.

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  1. Sinrebirth SWC and EUC Forum Moderator

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2004
    star 7
    Jacen spent Bloodlines being sure about his decision, and he wants to use the Sith mentality. He used the dark side liberally anyway.
  2. SiouxFan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2012
    star 3
    Here is the thing with Traitor, it wasn't so much a change in Jacen's philosophy so much as an affirmation of it. Throughout the beginning of NJO, he is constantly wrestling with what it means to be a Jedi, to go to war. Can we defeat an enemy without becoming like them? That was the jist of his argument with Anakin on Centerpoint; Anakin was saying that the ends do justify the means. When taken captive by Vergere, he is presented with someone who articulates his point-of-view in a way he hadn't been able to. I would argue that after Traitor, Jacen becomes more thoughtful, not less; he knows that it is wrong to take a life, yet realizes that this is what war is about: kill or be killed.

    I think that I speak for many when I say that I wanted MORE out of the post-TUF EU. I wanted Jacen, Jaina, Jag, Danni, Tahiri, Tenel Ka, all to be the start of a new era. I wanted to see how they were going to try to heal the galaxy and put it back together. I wanted to see Jaina and Lowbacca take on the crime syndicates that were sure to pop up in an era of broken governments, I wanted to see Tenel Ka use her influence and military might as Queen Mother to take on 'rogue' systems that were unwilling to help the rebuilding efforts, I wanted to see Jacen teach and discuss this 'new' view of the Force others. That it's possible to question life as a Jedi and still be one.

    Suffice it to say: I felt cheated. At the end of TUF, we get Jacen saying about Danni: "I know where she'll be." Huh? I'm not saying that they should have gotten married, but we deserved better closure than that. Then, we get "Oh, by the way, I'm leaving to do some soul-searching." Double Huh? The whole galaxy is a mess, and your leaving?

    In my opinion, everything after that read like a mediore fan fiction story. It became 'Jacen is not to be trusted, and even if he's is justified in some actions, he's still wrong."

    Jacen and Tenel Ka finally get the scene that I've wanted for years, but it turns into a quid quo pro and ruins whatever romance there should have been with that scene. Ben throws Tenel Ka and Allana against a wall almost knocking her out, and yet we are presented that Jacen is wrong for reacting to that. Ta' Chume hired assassins to go kill her great-granddaughter, she further threatens Tenel Ka and Allana when Jacen corners her on it, and yet she is portrayed in a sympathetic light. I've got more, but I don't want this to turn into just a 'Siouxfan' rant.

    Jacen's biggest strength in NJO is being able to see all sides of an argument and then proceeding with a plan. Lumiya merely mentions Vergere as being a Sith, and Jacen jumps at it like a trout. What happened to the Jacen that looked at things objectively? Jacen was 20-odd when he left on his voyage; people don't change their overall philosophy THAT much when in their 20s.

    Jacen turns the galaxy against him, loses everyone he cares about, and gets himself killed to save the galaxy from itself. What does this sacrifice get him? Daala! Really? Who did not see another train-wreck coming with that?

    Vergere taught us that it is not the Force that makes us do things, but ourselves. Jacen could have proved that being a 'Sith' does not mean you burn planets just because you want to teach a lesson. Jacen should have been able to prove that: "Jedi, Sith. These are just labels."

    At the end of Betrayal, I expected this to be Jacen's path. That he could be 'different' than the other Jedi but still be human. Had it been Stover, maybe we could have gotten that. Instead, we got...this.
    Last edited by SiouxFan, Sep 23, 2012
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  3. SiouxFan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2012
    star 3
    I will agree with that. By the end of Tempest, however, he turns into an unstable cartoon.
  4. HighLadyFel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2011
    star 1
    There are flaws everywhere in EU, including the philosophy, because of multiple authors. This is when reading skills come into play, such as using your imagination or assumption. At one point in time Jacen fell. Whether that started in Traitor, after TUF, or before Dark Nest doesn't really matter unless someone asked your opinion: When did your respect for Jacen Solo as a character change?
    I guess what i'm trying to get at is this, Darth Caedus happened, Vergere is counted as a Sith, and somehow Abeloth worked her way in there as well. You can't reverse that or change it.
  5. SiouxFan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2012
    star 3
    Trust me, I am well to aware that Jacen is dead.

    As an aside, is this not what the point of the boards is: to discuss what we think is wrong with Jacen's path? I would futher offer this: when did LFLs respect for Jacen Solo as a character change? Why did LFL see the need to turn anyone into a Sith? There were plenty of plotlines that were on the table, why follow this one?
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  6. RK_Striker_JK_5 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2003
    star 7
    Can it be reversed or changed? Gods, I wish it could. I wish all the post-YJK bantha shavit could be erased from existence. It can't, though, so I'm stuck loathing something that helped me get through one of the worse parts of my life. I. Hate. Caedus!
  7. HighLadyFel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2011
    star 1
    The reason is because someone had yet to fall to the darkside. Isn't the darkside/the ultimate battle between good and evil one of the main themes in the trilogy we all know and love? Go to any era in the Star Wars universe and you'll see either a sith like character or a major character who has in fact fallen to the darkside. NJO was all about the Vong, not necessarily the darkside and Alema Rar wasn't as important as, say Jacen Solo. Yes, Caedus sucks, i'll admit it. But it had to happen sooner or later. Without a Darth in there somewhere what's the point of even calling it Star Wars?
  8. SiouxFan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2012
    star 3
    I would argue that both the NJO and Zahn's books prove that you can have a great storyline without having to have a 'Darth Someone'. Thrawn was a fantastic antagonist because he WASN'T a Sith or dark; he simply opposed the Republic on idealogical grounds.

    Sadly, I think that LFL thinks the same as you; that 'it had to happen sooner or later'. I find this unimaginative. Caedus sucks because he was unoriginal. The books since RotJ have had PLENTY of darkside moments: Kyp slid into it, there was the whole Exar Kun Academy with Zekk, Jaina dealt it on Hapes, Luke actually joined the reborn Emperor....

    I would further argue that the main theme of Star Wars is redemption. Anakin Skywalker, Kyp Durron, Zekk, even Luke himself were all saved from themselves. Why did no one make an effort with Jacen?

    How many 'Ultimate Battles' can we expect to have? Anakin Skywalker's story was compelling becuase it was unique; he destroyed the Sith once and for all...or so we were led to believe. Are just set to watch the same story repeat itself every other generation? Allana's daughter will become Sith because we have to have a 'Darth'? There is so much more to Star Wars than just having a bad guy with a red lightsabre show up every so often.
    Last edited by SiouxFan, Sep 25, 2012
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  9. RK_Striker_JK_5 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2003
    star 7
    God, Luke made more of an effort with Palpatine than his own nephew! He sent Jaina to assassinate her own brother. Not to mention the character assassination throughout.:mad:
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  10. DarthJenari Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2011
    star 4
    The Sith in general are overused post ROTJ. And I personally find redemption to be extremely underused, especially when the OT was literally built on redemption as a theme. So Luke basically just blowing the idea off with Jacen was simply bad writing. (Keep in mind, there are numerous instances throughout the EU of Luke attempting to redeem people. People who he hasn't known since the day they were born)
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  11. HighLadyFel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2011
    star 1
    People tried to make an effort with Jacen, he just turned away from them before they actually got to his core. He fired upon his parents, arrested his sister(i think),tricked Tenel KA with his "care' for Allana(until it was to late of course), and pissed Mara off therefore shunning the Skywalkers. Who else is there?! Cha Niathal? Tahiri? I don't think there really was anyone else who cared about the force wellbeing of Jacen Solo.
    Again, i have to say, this is what Caedus worse! The fact that he wasn't redeemed. That would be to predictable, and as you say, unoriginal. I kind of hate to use this quote but, "You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." So far all the so called villains were redeemed, LFL needed someone MAJOR to die a Darth.
  12. Zeta1127 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    No redemption, so the osik of the Denningverse didn't happen.
  13. HighLadyFel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2011
    star 1
    Denningverse? Really? He's not that bad of an EU author.
  14. Zeta1127 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    DNT, LotF, and FotJ are what I am referring to with the Denningverse.
  15. HighLadyFel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2011
    star 1
    I realize. What's your problem with "Denningverse"?
    Last edited by HighLadyFel, Sep 29, 2012
  16. Zeta1127 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    I have a problem with everything, DNT inconsistencies with TUF from the reset button to the start of character assassination, Jacen Solo's fall and lack of redemption, Boba Fett being portrayed as a tragic hero, the deaths of way too many characters I like, the Second Galactic Civil War simply being a backdrop, Abeloth, the shoehorning of Mortis, and the list goes on and on. Basically, I don't like anything they came up with, and I have not interest in reading it or anything derived from it like Crucible and SotJ, so I will only read side stories like X-wing: Mercy Kill at this point.
    Last edited by Zeta1127, Sep 29, 2012
  17. DarthJenari Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2011
    star 4
    Yeah, what happened to Jacen and Vergere was truly tragic. :_| I personally didn't care for the Jedi reverting back to the Light Side/Dark Side view of the Force either. Was really just poorly done, especially when you compare it to the way their view evolved in NJO with Vergere's help. I did appreciate Raynar's return and Luke's fights with him and Lomi though. I like seeing Luke as the wise master who steps back and lets his students handle things (YJK) but every now and then its good to see him cut loose.
    Last edited by DarthJenari, Sep 29, 2012
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  18. HighLadyFel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2011
    star 1
    That's dedication, which i have to respect. Have you considered reading Scourge?
  19. Zeta1127 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    Yes I have, once I get caught up on getting my Bantam and Del Rey favorites, I plan on reading Scourge and at least a few other things.

    I desperately wanted smaller scale conflicts, in the vein of the Bantam novels, on the backdrop of the recovery from the Yuuzhan Vong War, so the Denningverse just doesn't work for me at all.
  20. HighLadyFel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2011
    star 1
    Well, if you need a break from the EU and decide you still don't want to stop reading Star Wars, read Scourge. I'm halfway through it and enjoying every page.
  21. Zeta1127 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    I am not going to stop reading Star Wars anytime soon, even though TCW has ruined the Clone Wars and the Denningverse has ruined the post-NJO, there are still things I like out there, but they are becoming few and far between.
    Last edited by Zeta1127, Sep 29, 2012
  22. HighLadyFel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2011
    star 1
    So your more of a New Republic/Zahn's era type person?
  23. Zeta1127 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    At this point, yes, though I haven't got around to reading the Clone Wars multimedia project yet, but that's definitely on my to-do list along with things like Scourge and Scoundrels.
  24. HighLadyFel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2011
    star 1
    I have no interest in the Clone Wars, save for the prequel movies. It's kinda sad, but i have yet to read Heir to the Empire. I think after Scourge, i'll just go back to the New Republic era.
  25. Sinrebirth SWC and EUC Forum Moderator

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2004
    star 7
    I would recommend Heir as a must. Though I did read Dark Force Rising and Last Command first!
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