Discussion in 'EU Community' started by -Vergere-, Oct 14, 2001.
Haha! I'll be going in order, but thanks!
Palpatine was pretty major and he remained a 'Darth', so I think that role had been filled. I do agree that Jacen did deflect any conversations that he had away from himself, but that is where I think the burden falls more upon his family. I'm in the military, and we are losing a LOT of people to suicides; most of these young people also deflect attention away from themselves. My point is this: If you KNOW somebody is acting out of character, do something about it. Don't just take, "I'm fine." as an answer. Jaina, his TWIN sister, did not talk to Jacen at all from the middle of Betrayal until the time she ran him through. She KNEW that something had changed about her brother, had even told Luke about it. Jacen was committing suicide by 'Sith', and everyone just watched. They did the same thing with Alema.
Jaina had court-martial proceedings (which I don't think actually went anywhere) started against her because she disobeyed a lawful order given to her by a superior officer in a combat situtation. Again, from a military point-of-view, this is a BIG deal. I'm not saying that Jacen was ethical, because it was not. But it WAS a lawful order: the ship they were intercepting was acting in secession against the government and, therefore, a legal target. Any reprecussions on firing on the ship would have been Jacen's to answer to since he was 'flight lead' in this instance.
One of the things I like about LotF is the way that we all run with our misconceptions. Leia and Han are IN the Fountain Palace when the attack starts, are SEEN leaving the Palace, and are FLEEING Hapan space. Futhermore, Jacen knows that Han is siding with the Corellians, a system that is in open rebellion with his government. Han had already given up on Coruscant, had flown WITH Corellian forces; is it that much of a stretch to think that he'd attack Hapes? Again, I had held out hope that Jacen would come to the correct conclusion that his parents would NOT act in such a manner towards the person they had come to view as their 'daughter-in-law', but I also assumed that his parents would have the sense to not try and run from a Star Destroyer. By this time, Jacen is acting Chief-of-State, and by not surrendering, they are acting in open rebellion. Again, this is what I liked about start of LotF, the whole 'no one is really right' aspect. Later on in the series, they dropped this stance and it became one-dimensional.
As an aside, I agree with Sinre, Zahn's books are a must read. Even Outbound Flight adds to the depth of the EU.
I think Jacen solo is one of the most complex characters in the star wars EU. From his days in the young Jedi knights books, to his early adulthood in the devastating Vong war, his personality started to change. It was like one moment he was the kid pulling off lame jokes and then the next moment he was fighting one of the grimmest wars the galaxy. Losing his brother changed his personality as well, not to forget Vergere and his capture by the Vong. But he stayed passive, trying always to find the peaceful solution. But after the events in his 5 year journey when he looked into the pool of knowledge, I think it did drive him to prevent the vision he saw. I remember Luke saying that such knowledge would drive a person insane. That was what I think happened to Jacen. But by then, whether it was the tragedy in his life or the birth of his daughter Allana, he was driven to fulfill his task no matter the means. His actions during the dark nest crisis are testament to that. By LOTF, he was willing to sacrifice everything for what he believed was right. Except Allana and earlier on in LOTF his wife. That was to prove to be his biggest weakness. If he really wanted to bring 'peace' to the galaxy, he should have been able to let go. Except he couldn't. But, I think that was also a sign of his humanity and I think that is what helped his old personality to shine through in the end. Because that was a mark of Jacen.
After gettinng essentially flogged on some of the other boards, I will ask this: Why does anyone remain a Jacen fan? I find it interesting that I would get less flak if I admitted to being a fan of Palpatine.
Ignoring what supposedly happens after the NJO, I am definitely a fan of Jacen Solo!
I am a fan of him in the YJK. I consider the thing taking his name in Vector Prime to be an entirely different character and one I'd like to send Daleks after.
I actually enjoyed him in VP. I thought that his ability to send running updates of hyperspace vectors to Anakin when at Lando's Folly was pretty cool; as was he and Jaina's rescue of Danni Quee. My 'Dalek' moment didn't occur until the end of Betrayal. I remember thinking: 'Okay, you see Luke die. What's the big deal? He's going to die eventually.'
To me, we've deified one Luke Skywalker to the detriment of everyone else's ability to solve problems.
I have... problems with the NJO. And i say problems when I mean I can get frothing mad at the series and hate, loathe and despise almost every aspect of the series in ways that will make me go on tangents laden with so many F-bombs it would defy belief.
Maybe LotF will make you happier? It is only lightly related to the NJO, so I'm told
I love Jacen because of the same reason I love Revan, Kreia and Vergere; morally relative characters who inject grey into our universe,
I still say that Darth Vader II wasn't Jacen Solo, and wonder why anyone in their right mind would want to read about Darth Vader II.
Jacen in VP annoyed me, if only because of his holier than thou attitude towards Anakin. It cropped up again in SBS. Then of course there was that little vision of his on Belkaden (Funny that it was another of his visions, and specifically him being so certain it was real that led to his death) and earlier in that same book I remember him arrogantly acting as if he knew more about the Jedi than Luke. SMH, boy needed a slap to the face. From Traitor onward he once again became one of my favorite characters, as he was in YJK, and then we got to Betrayal, and the character ceased to exist.
If I may quote Pinkie Pie... "Hah, hah... hah!"
I think I hated LOTF even more than NJO, and that's saying something! Vader 2.0 or Jacen Solo was a horrific idea horribly executed. And for the most part I don't like moral ambiguity either. Especially in Star Wars with the Force!
I actually liked Jacen in VP. His actions at Lando's Folly were pretty cool, keeping a running flow of hyperspace coordinates going to Anakin. He and Jaina going pretty much on their own to resuce who they thought was Miko (it turned out to be Danni) was also pretty inspiring. To me, it showed what Jaina and Jacen could do when they acted together.
It started to go down-hill after that, they took his 'pacifist' stance wa-ay too far. However, I would aruge that Anakin was just as 'high-and-mighty' as Jacen. 'The Force is a tool' never worked for me as an argument.
I actually agree with Sinre, I like the moral ambiguity that Vergere proposed. Unfortunately, they bastardized it into someithing it wasn't meant to be. The Force not having a 'dark side' is not the same as saying that there aren't 'dark' actions, which iswhat it got turned into.
Exactly. Morally ambiguous, "grey", characters are always an excellent addition to a franchise like this one. However when it becomes a matter of "I can do anything because personal darkness doesn't exist, therefore all my actions will lead to a right and just outcome" the entire concept is undermined. I was especially offended because I had no problem with the way Jacen and Vergere were presented. Jacen especially had come a long way and traveled an interesting course that left him still a Jedi, but different from Luke. Just like Qui-Gon was different from Yoda, and I liked that. What's even worse is that in the NJO it was made very clear, as Sioux said, what Vergere was teaching. Yet later we have Jacen doing something else entirely, and seeing the respect he had for Vergere it can't be taken as anything more than character assassination. The worst type of writing.
Jacen, if he hadn't became a Sith would've been a great dad to Allana.
I will forever be p***ed off that Jacen was not allowed to watch his daughter grow up. Did we not already have enough 'orphan' stories in the EU? We really needed more? How about writing about a 'normal' family dynamic?
^ Agreed. Wasn't wedlock forbidden on Hapes though?
I'm not sure I understand what you mean: Teneniel and Isolder were married, so there is no reason to think that Jacen and Tenel Ka couldn't have eventually tied the knot. But even if they didn't, he could have still been on Hapes and been 'Dad'.
Padme being a Sith doesn't stop one from being a great dad.
Anyways is like to join this fan club. I love the character Jacen Solo (Darth Caedus). He was willing to do anythingto protect his daughter. A great Jedi and an even greater Sith. Its too bad he was killed. I wanted to see what the galaxy would be like under his rule and I wanted to see him train his daughter to take his place.
Write me in, Jacen is one of my favorite Star Wars characters. I like him in YJK and NJO, his fall to the Dark Side and death at the end of LOTF is a reason to disaccept the entire Post-NJO-EU.
A word of warning, being part of the 'Jacen Fan Club' is a quick way to become a pariah on the boards. I think most everyone else things we're a bit...unhinged.
I liked Jacen in YJK. He was really unlikable as a Sith in LOTF. Though I did like the scenes with him and Allana.
I am definitely not unhinged, more like alienated, because I believe Jacen Solo deserved better than being made into Darth Vader II out of nowhere, to the point that I don't even know how I can even like him anymore other than ignoring Darth Vader II.
^^^Yeah. I still think that Denning is president of the 'Jacen Solo sucks' fan club. What is kinda funny is that most of the fanficcers have this one recurring theme: "Hey, I need a baddie. I know, I'll pick Jacen." I'd really like to read a story where Jaina turns into an %%$$ and a Sith.
I don't think most fans hate Jacen though. It seems like there are simply certain points where they don't like his character, the Darth Caedus era of course basically being the second coming of Darth Vader, and the early NJO era dealing with him being an annoying little brat who couldn't do anything.