Jacen vs Jaina showdown inevitable? Semi SPOILER

At the end of Star by Star, we see Jaina slowly start to turn to the Dark Side... and the next NJO novel by Elaine Cunningham focuses on Jaina, and is entitled "Dark Journey"

We also know the Warmaster wants Jacen and Jaina to duel as a sacrifice to the gods.

So, does anyone else think that a Jacen vs Jaina duel is inevitable? If so... who wins? And will one twin end up killing the other?

 

My Theory:

I think the duel is inevitable. The thing is, I believe that things will need to come full circle before the duel to happen. Right now, Jaina is firmly on the Dark Side, fighting out of her hate for the Vong. Jacen is firmly on the light, fighting out of his love for the Force and his galaxy. But Jaina is surrounded by friends, Jacen by enemies.

Jaina will be healed, and Jacen will fall. With the tortures facing him, as much as I like Jacen, I believe that his fall is inevitable. Jacen has been built as being the Solo most concerned with striving for the light, Jaina has been written as the bitter child, the angry one. The Vong beliefs about twins (one light, one dark) seem to be applying directly. But it makes no sense for them to duel now.

Right now, Jaina would certainly try to rescue Jacen, and be willing to kill any number of people to do so. Jacen would certainly want to be rescued. Neither of them would be willing to fight each other, despite that they use different sides of the Force. But if Jaina is healed and Jacen falls, then we have potential for conflict. Jacen will be corrupted in the way that they intended to corrupt Tahiri, and Jaina?s friends and family will rescue her from herself.

If Jacen emerges as a Vong champion, then Jaina may have no choice. If she has returned from the Dark Side, the duel will probably mirror the duel between Luke and Vader in Return of the Jedi. Jaina will take Luke?s role, trying to find the good buried within her foe, trying to make him remember.

It will be Jaina that wins the duel. Jacen may very well defeat her in strength of arms, but she will defeat him in strength of belief. He will be unable to kill her, even if he is physically capable of the act. Whether he returns to the light at the duels conclusion or he spares her life and returns to the Vong, she will have won. If there is a follow-up duel, Jacen will definitely return to the Light Side.

 

Good thread. I have been talking about this with a friend, and we said even before SbS that they ought to end up dueling. Now we learn the Vong have the twin thing, and that Vong twins battle each other. I think it is certain.

I'd like to see the idea of them coming full circle happen. It's likely that Jaina would come back with influence other than Jacen's. And seeing him break would be great. Then we'd have the duel in destiny's road, one of the real climaxes of the series. I'd like to see Jacen coming back to the light side through Jaina's belief, and his vision recurring. Then I would want him to somehow sacrifice himself and end up balancing the Force/Galaxy.

 

Interesting thoughts, all of you.

A showdown is quite inevitable in my opinion also. But as the ending of SbS foreshadows, each will rescue the other.

 

Gandolf, I strongly disagree. If Jacen goes to the Dark Side it will be due to many factors (but one in particular); the Vong?s attempt to break him will not be one of them. For Jacen to go to the Dark Side he must feel like the Force had betrayed him. He must feel like the Force can not be trusted, and that the only way to save the Galaxy was to use the Force as a weapon to help him destroy the Galaxy?s enemies. The Vong could never make him believe that.

Jacen is not one to break under pressure. In fact, we have seen that Jacen?s resolve and determination becomes strongest when there is someone to oppose him. We know who the twin that breaks under extreme pressure is; that was demonstrated very clearly in SbS. The only thing that could break Jacen?s resolve to serve the Force would have to be something that he trusted more than his friends; more than his family; more than himself. The one thing that could make him lose faith in the Force could only be the Force itself.

I would like to direct you to a short, incomplete Fan Fiction I wrote and posted up on fanfiction.net (I have the same screen name there as I do here, and the name of the fic is Jacen?s Dark Journey). I wrote it before I read SbS, and I did a horrible job with Jimmy?s death, but it does explain what I think could make Jacen go to the Dark Side, and what he could be like afterwards.

A showdown between Jacen and Jaina is inevitable, but determining a winner is impossible. If Jacen kills Jaina, they both lose. If Jaina kills Jacen (which is very unlikely, unless they?re in X-wings) the Galaxy loses, and since Jaina is a part of the Galaxy, she would lose too. If neither of them kills the other, then there is no winner.

About the question of whether Jaina and Jacen would ever fight each other. They could. If Jaina began to believe that Jacen purposefully let Jimmy die so that he could take control of the strike team (we know a part of her believes this already), then she would want to fight her brother. She might even start to believe that Jacen had the whole thing planed out from the start, and had been working with the Vong all along. Why else would he run off and get himself captured? (She is on the Dark Side after all, and Dark Siders are easily persuaded into committing acts of destruction) Jacen would never want to kill his sister (he doesn?t want to kill anything, but especially not his sister). However, he would be willing to defend himself against her.

 

Interesting thoughts, I've been pondering this as well.

 

I think they probably will have a duel, but I disagree with JediJSolo, if neither kills the other BOTH win. I think it will be like the Luke and Vader battle in ROTJ. Jacen will bring Jaina back to the light side of the foce through his love for her. They both win because jacen doesn't die, and jaina comes back to the good side. I really don't think they will kill off any more important characters.

 

We clearly know that if they dueled at this point(which is not gonna happen) then Jaina is gonna kick Jacen's ass. Think about it,

Jaina= dark side, lightsaber, force lightning

Jacen= light side, lightsaber, just stopped being a wimp


Jaina would obvouly kill her bro, and I don't care what these people say. The dark side is stronger, if it wasn't no body would fall.

 

The Dark Side is not stronger. Easier, yes. But not stronger. And don't misjudge Jacen's fighting abilities. He beat Anakin in their duel in Vector Prime, he beat Tsavong Lah in Balance Point, and he killed the Voxyn queen. He can fight as well as anyone else in the galaxy, he's just doesn?t like fighting.

Not liking violence does not make someone weak. Indeed, sometimes it takes more courage to remain a pacifist than it does to pick up a sword.

 

I agree, Gondalf. The Dark side istn nescesarily stronger...and how may times have we seen a person who is *supposedly* completely dark not able to kill a family member or friend that they are very close to? Vader, Zekk, and so on. I dont think that jaina will kill jacen. However, because of their attitutes, and the whole Vong/twin thing, they will DEFINITLEY end up dueling at some point. And i think that either Jacen will pull jaina out...or they will BOTH go dark...thats not very likely, but i would be really cool if they went on a brother/sister Dark jedi vong rampage team.

 

Absolutely. The dark side's theatrics in showing tremendous "power" is just that... theatrics. This may sound cliche, but there is redemption through the light!

I agree with Little_Brother. I think after saving Jacen, Jaina will be redeemed by Jacen and brought back to the light. At least that's what I'd like to see =) .

 

Hmmm... basically, yes: Jacen vs. Jaina showdown is inevitable. The only person who can really redeem her is her twin brother, mostly because they are basically closer to each other than to anybody else.

I would enjoy seeing Jaina beat Jacen, but... unfortunately, that's not gonna happen. You guys are right: they won't have any one winner. Jacen will be overwhelmed by Jaina's dark power, but in the end, she'll be won over by Jacen's love for her. Very sappy, really.

It'd be a lot more interesting if Jaina won Jacen over to the darkside (yeah, riiight... but hey, it could happen) and then Luke, Kyp ::laughs::, Han and Leia would all have to save them both. Could you imagine having twin darksiders? That'd be cool. Two streaks of lightning coming from different angles and connecting to form a firy bolt of death... :: but it'll never happen.

 

Okay, now this is starting to get really interesting. People actually think that Dark Jaina could defeat Jacen. This just brings a smile to my face. Should I unleash my criticisms and beliefs here, or should we just start a new thread dedicated to that topic? I will wait a while for someone?s answer.

?It'd be a lot more interesting if Jaina won Jacen over to the darkside (yeah, riiight... but hey, it could happen) and then Luke, Kyp ::laughs::, Han and Leia would all have to save them both.?

Cool idea, but if Jacen goes to the Dark Side with Jaina, no one will be able to save them. Once Jacen goes to the Dark Side, it?s all over. Nothing would be able to bring them back. They would reinforce each other?s believes and no one would be able to convince them that it would be best for them to return to the Light Side. The only hope the Jedi might have would be to just try to kill them both. However, no single Jedi would be able to do it. Jacen and Jaina would simply be too strong together, for even Luke and Mara (working together) to even hope to defeat them. The Dark Side is not stronger than the Light Side when looked at as a whole, but when just looking at direct strength, the Dark Side can be immensely superior. The entire Jedi order would have to use all of it?s cunning to bypass the strength of the combined power of the Dark Twins.

 

Haha, I agree, JJS. The Dark Twins would pretty much clean house. It would certainly make things interesting!

Why don't you unleash your fury here about what would happen in Dark Jaina vs. Jacen situation. :>

 

I will not complain because I brought this upon myself, but Jacen might of been able to beat Anakin in VP, but probably not in the beginning of SBS, or so I would like to think.

I truly believe that Dark is more powerful, but the flame that burns the brightest burns out the fastest. That's what happens to sith lords, they never truly pervail, the light side does. But the Dark Side is like screaming out, come here for lots of force power! Anger is a powerful emotion, therefore it can be put to use easily and effectivly.




I have to say until someone can convince me otherwise, that Dark Jaina would kill Jacen.

 

Thanks -Vergere-.

I have a lot of trouble understanding why people would actually think that Jaina could defeat Jacen in her current condition.

A Jedi using powerful negative emotions (the emotions most easily summoned at will) can become much more physically powerful. I will never try to dispute that. However, whether the person is using the Dark Side or the Light Side, that person must have a certain amount of mental discipline to properly use that power. That mental discipline is used differently for the two different sides of the Force.

On the Light side, that mental discipline is used to maintain control over a Jedi?s negative emotions so that they do not cloud that person?s judgment. It is used to gain an understanding of the Force and to help that Jedi understand his or her environment (in an infinite number of ways). And when necessary, to shape the surroundings to suite the needs of that particular Jedi. The Light Side has many more uses than just that, but these uses more directly related to a Jedi?s mental control.

The Dark Side, on the other hand, uses that mental discipline for other things. Like the Light Side, it uses a person?s mental discipline to control his or her emotions, but for an entirely different porpoise. That mental discipline is used to summon up those negative emotions, and to harness the power given to that person by those emotions to call upon the Force for strength. Using the Force this way makes getting strength from the Force easy, and almost embarrassingly simple, compared to how hard it is with the Light Side.

However, that is not all a person?s mental discipline is used for. A Dark Side user must also be conscious of how much emotion is summoned up. The amount of emotion is directly related to how much Force strength is summoned, and it is possible to become so enamored with that power that a person can summon more of the Force than his or her body can handle. (We know that it is possible to summon up too much Force energy. Anakin did it using Light Side techniques, and I think one of Luke first students did it using Dark Side techniques.)

Also, emotion will help a Dark Side user to gain strength with the Force, but it will also cloud that person?s judgment. A true master of the Dark Side will be able to see through that cloud of emotion and not let it hinder him or her, but the amount of mental discipline necessary to do that is immense.

Jaina does not have the necessary mental discipline to control all the aspects of the Dark Side she would need to defeat Jacen.

We know that Jacen is a great fighter; that fact is nearly indisputable (see Is Jacen a good fighter ), and he is also very strong. We also know that Jaina is very strong when using the Dark Side. However, not only is Jaina not yet accustom to her newfound strength, she doesn?t have the necessary mental discipline to control it properly. She has shown a lack of ability to see through her negative emotions.

We know that Jaina has a lot of powerful negative emotions that she can easily call upon, but she still needs to control them if she where to have any chance at defeating Jacen, and she simply doesn?t have the control to do that yet. With her emotions clouding her judgment, all of her cunning would be replaced by power, and power without purpose is useless.

 

Can't comprehend so many words at 2 o'clock in the morning, I'll be back tomorrow.

C~ya

 

I think they actually be brought together in the events. Jacen is changing his views of the force a bit, so maybe it may be to the point where he may have 22nd thoughts on whether it's evil? I dunno. I just for some reason think that they may come together somehow...
EDIT: 2nd not 22nd. Sorry about that, if you assumed that was a horribly bad joke.

 

I?m only going to do this once? Up!

 

"Okay, now this is starting to get really interesting. People actually think that Dark Jaina could defeat Jacen. "

I'm afraid I'm going to have to count myself amongst those who feel Jaina would win that fight. Although, not "win" as in, she would cleanly defeat Jacen in combat, but "win" as in, she would be the one walking away alive. I cannot see, under any circumstances whatsoever, Jacen striking the killing blow on his own sister. He just absolutely would not do it, Dark Side Jaina or no. Jaina on the other hand, I can quite easily see her killing Jacen, in any number of ways. Jacen would destroy her in a lightsaber fight, but as Lomi Plo says "A Jedi is never without a weapon." How is Jacen to defend against Force lightning? And Force lightning from his own twin sister at that? He wouldn't, even if he could. Just like Luke and Palpatine, only for different reasons. So yes, Jaina would kill Jacen. But only because I cannot see Jacen ever killing his sister, whereas a Dark Side Jaina would share no such qualms.

JMA

 

JediMasterAaron: I agree. A Light Side Jacen Solo would die if he fought a Dark Side Jaina Solo. He might physically and emotionally be the stronger, but he couldn?t kill his sister any more than Luke could kill Vader. If Jaina didn?t come back, Jacen would die.

If a Dark Side ?Vong warrior? Jacen Solo fought a Light Side ?Passed through the fires of the Dark Side and has come out stronger? Jaina Solo, I think that Jaina would still win. She could reach out to the good still buried in Jacen and draw it to the surface, saving him from himself. While she might technically lose the duel along the way, they?d both walk away lightsider?s, and so she?d have won the battle.

 

?I cannot see, under any circumstances whatsoever, Jacen striking the killing blow on his own sister.?

JMA, I agree that it is hard to see Jacen ever actually killing his sister, but if it where necessary, and he knew that it was necessary, he would do it. He my feel bad about it for the rest of his life, but he would do it. He has always done what he thought was necessary and he wouldn?t stop now.

?How is Jacen to defend against Force lightning??

He could defend against Force lightning with an activated Lightsaber. (see The Last Command)

?He wouldn't, even if he could.?

I strongly disagree. Jacen my have a problem with killing his sister but he would not have any problems with defending himself against her.

?Just like Luke and Palpatine, only for different reasons.?

Jacen would be willing to defend himself against Jaina. She is his sister, and allowing her to kill him would only send her farther down the path of darkness, and potentially doom the Galaxy. He would never let that happen.

?I will not fight you? was a line stated by a man who was being forced to attack his own father. Jacen may say those words during a battle between him and his sister, but he would say them while deflecting her attacks. He may not fight back, but Jaina could not defeat him. She simply lacks the necessary skill to penetrate his defenses.

 

What I got out of sbs is that those two dark side users were not really bad. Cept when they did that stuff at the end of sbs. They were just sarcastic and dry. They hated the twins and Zekk, but never really did anything against them.

 

Well, aside from betraying everyone and trying to kill Lowbacca... but once you get past that unpleasantness, they were great fellows to have around!

 

JediJSolo

"I strongly disagree. Jacen my have a problem with killing his sister but he would not have any problems with defending himself against her."

How long could Jacen hold off? The longer Jaina fights, the more frustrated she's going to get, the more angry she's going to become, and the stronger the Dark Side in her will be. Bottom line, Jacen will tire before Jaina, forcing him to either die, or kill his sister. Bit of a dilemma there.


"?I will not fight you? was a line stated by a man who was being forced to attack his own father. "

True, but were this duel to come about, more than likely it will be in a situation where the twins are forced to fight eachother. We may hear that line come back before this series is over.


"She simply lacks the necessary skill to penetrate his defenses."

Well, that's where we we are gonna disagree most vehemently. While I dont think she's as skilled as Jacen, neither with a lightsaber or with the Force, the Dark Side doesn't require the level of finesse that the Light Side does. If nothing else, Jaina would have no qualms blasting Jacen with a huge TK shove, or picking him up with the Force and throwing him. Skill is going to matter very little to someone as Force-sensitive as Jaina Solo is, when wallowing in the Dark Side.

JMA