Amph James Bond: Now Disc. "Skyfall" Video Blog by Sam Mendes

Discussion in 'Community' started by big_boss_nass, Jun 12, 2003.

  1. Nevermind Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2001
    star 6
    [image=http://www.tomrichmond.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/secretagentman.jpg]

    I never realized before how much Craig looks like Steve McQueen...
  2. Merlin_Ambrosius69 Force Ghost

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    Aug 4, 2008
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    Really, that image is just priceless. It's on my desktop writ large, and I've found myself studying it in close detail every time I power up or close an application. The artist (likely Drucker, who at 82 might still be producing work) has such a keen eye for the minute details that make up a face and give it character and distinction that it staggers the intellect.

    Anyone who still believes (as John Wesley Downey does!) that Connery and Lazenby look alike need only compare these two caricatures to see how truly different from one another the two actors are. Lazenby has a cleft chin, smallish eyes, rounded cheekbones; Connery has large eyes, no cleft, and small, square cheekbones. I realize the artist has exaggerated the features, of course, but the original features are pronounced on the individuals to whom they belong, plain for anyone to see who has an eye for such distinctions.

    Also, the artist has captured the essences of each individual Bond with insight and aplomb. Connery is lighting a cigarette, just as wee see him for the first time in Dr. No. Lazenby sips a martini, Moore (who is superbly rendered down to the shade of his sky-blue eyes) is posed in a kung-fu stance, Dalton (the only one of the group who looks slightly off and not quite himself) grips a pistol, Brosnan adjusts his tie while slipping a pair of pink women's underwear into his pocket, and of course, Craig stands with fists clenched, bruised and battered and looking absurdly out of place in the company of the smooth, well-heeled gentlemen to his right.

    The whole piece just delights the eye. I may not know much about art (oh, wait, I have a degree) but I know what I like. [face_beatup]
  3. Nevermind Jedi Grand Master

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    Oct 14, 2001
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    I agree that Dalton's somewhat off, and I think perhaps Brosnan as well--slightly. (Aren't his eyes blue?) But Connery, Lazenby, Moore and Craig are all absolutely successful.

    I read somewhere that a caricaturist exaggerates the best feature of a subject to create the proper effects. For Connery, it's the eyebrows, for Lazenby the chin, for Moore the bright blue eyes, and for Craig the pugnacious ears and the physique. He doesn't quite convey Dalton's warmth or Brosnan's elegant charm, as they are not physical.

  4. Nevermind Jedi Grand Master

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  5. Ramza JC Head Admin and RPF Manager

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    Well that would lend credence to the "James Bond is a codename" theory if it happened.

    That or a wacky sex change plot.
  6. The_Four_Dot_Elipsis Force Ghost

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    Mar 3, 2005
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    James Bond is a man. With Scottish lineage.

    There. I just destroyed that idea.
  7. Merlin_Ambrosius69 Force Ghost

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    Aug 4, 2008
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    Carano: Haven?t we reached that point where the female can take the Bond character and just have a litter of very attractive men that are the Bond men?

    Me: No, because James Bond is a man. Specifically a heterosexual man with Scottish and Swiss heritage (thanks Four_Dot), who can pretend to be other men so that he can infiltrate organizations for espionage and data reconnaissance. A woman of Carano's description cannot believably disguise herself as man, so this essential element of Bond's persona would be eliminated.

    If Carano wants to push for the creation of another character who can be described as "the female James Bond", she is welcome to try. While we're at it, let's call for a male Ellen Ripley, a female Indiana Jones, a male Dorothy of Kansas, and a genderless Iron Man and see how well those characters hold up.
  8. Chancellor_Ewok Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2004
    star 6
    If you wanted to make a comedy about a suave but sexually confused spy and send up the Bond franchise in the process, sure. That might actually be really funny if handled right, but the idea of a woman playing Bond in an actual Bond film? Sorry, no.
  9. severian28 Force Ghost

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    Apr 1, 2004
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    As a one shot film I cant see why not. However as far as the series going on with her as Bond i think possibly the novelty would wear off after one or two films. Perhaps she should find a producer and writers that can craft a vehicle for her that would warrant a following. I havent seen Haywire but its supposed to be well done. The only knock im hearing is that theres not enough action scenes for Carano, which is surprising. Women have long since arrived as action leads so can she drop the Emma Goldman tone lol....
  10. Havac Some Guy Who Moderates Lit

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    The problem isn't even the sex per se. It's the character. There are plenty of characters who are male, but whose sex isn't really essential to the character -- you could have a female Jason Bourne pretty easily without changing anything fundamental to the character. The problem is that Bond's masculinity is central to his character. He's a chauvinist, even aside from the fact that he's a deliberate ultra-masculine sort of stereotype from a very specific era. You can't get a female male chauvinist. It won't work. You lose a central aspect of the character.
  11. severian28 Force Ghost

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    Apr 1, 2004
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    I think thats why it would work - because he's a chavunist. Because the character is SO associated with " male ". But just one film. It couldnt possibly work as a franchise for those same reasons.
  12. Chancellor_Ewok Force Ghost

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    Nov 8, 2004
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    But it wouldn't work for precisely that reason. Bond is so good at being an uber suave chavunist that he woos women without even having to try. Why should he dress up as a woman and seduce a man, when he can have any woman he wants just by being in the same room with them. Hell, he sleeps with Pussy Galore and IIRC she's implied to be a lesbian.
  13. Havac Some Guy Who Moderates Lit

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    Well, it might work as a take on James Bond, but it wouldn't work as James Bond. It would just be "The Adventures of a Woman Very Like James Bond." It's a sort of conceptual thing that might work as a film, but it's not James Bond.
  14. Merlin_Ambrosius69 Force Ghost

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    What do you mean by this? That this projected female Bond would be a lesbian chauvanist? Or that she would be chaunvanistic against men? Because either way I don't see that working.
  15. The_Four_Dot_Elipsis Force Ghost

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    Mar 3, 2005
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    Get Janet McTeer to play a woman disgused as James Bond that somehow fools everyone in the film but no one in the audience. That'll work.
  16. Merlin_Ambrosius69 Force Ghost

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    Aug 4, 2008
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    I know, let's have Godzilla play James Bond! He's chauvinist against space monsters... but only for one film.

    EDIT: I keep spelling 'chauvinist' wrong. I almost did it again just now. [face_blush]
  17. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Grand Master

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    Dec 17, 2000
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    On a slightly-related note, I think we're long overdue for a non-white Batman or Superman.

    I don't mean a different guy with a different backstory but the same suit; I mean a black Clark Kent or an Asian Bruce Wayne.
  18. Merlin_Ambrosius69 Force Ghost

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    Maybe this a topic for another thread, but until that happens I'll respond to it where it originated.

    Here are my objections to the idea that "we're long overdue for a non-white Batman or Superman; I mean a black Clark Kent or an Asian Bruce Wayne."

    1. Secret identity. The percentage of blacks in the population of the US is less than 13%. Asian population less than 5%. Granted that both percentages are higher in the cities, and Metropolis and Gotham are sprawling metroplexes. But in depicting either of these famous, publicly known and celebrated heroes as a minority ethnicity/skin color, the chances increase that their identities will be more easily determined.

    Now deducing Batman's identity is not only "Who's a guy with a strong chin that's rich enough to buy all those gadgets?" but "Who's an Asian guy with a strong chin etc.?" It narrows the pool of candidates considerably and effectively disposes of the secret identity.

    2. Character description. Questions of culture and ethnicity aside, from a purely physical standpoint, this is what these character look like. Superman doesn't have red or blond curly hair, or no hair; he has black, wavy hair. He doesn't have green eyes or hazel eyes; he has blue eyes. His skin isn't brown or yellow or freckled or albino, it's peach. There is no racism inherent in acknowledging this.

    Batman is probably a little more malleable because he's behind a mask; Val Kilmer with his sandy brown hair made a passable Bruce Wayne. And while we're on the subject, Bond is more flexible, too, because novels are not as graphically oriented as comics or films, and in the novels Bond's hair is described as "dark" (he also has a three-inch scar down his cheek acc. to Fleming, so there goes any chance of getting him book-accurate on film).

    I could go on. Another example: Green Arrow is blond; you wouldn't cast him as a Native American with black hair or a "white" guy with brown hair, and if you did it wouldn't work visually. These characters are depicted in a certain way and that is part of who they are. It's not a matter of "race", whatever that means exactly, but one of physical characteristics.
  19. The_Four_Dot_Elipsis Force Ghost

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    [image=http://donttrysohard.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/thats-racist.gif]
  20. Ramza JC Head Admin and RPF Manager

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    MA, that's a completely unproductive argument to have - both sides would have different axiomatic assumptions regarding whether or not appearance is an aspect of character, thus resulting in a very elaborate form of "Yuh huh!" "Nuh uh!" "Yuh huh!" "Nuh uh!"

    Oh, and for the record? Black Batman is best Batman.
    [image=http://dcu.blog.dccomics.com/files/2011/06/batwing-1.jpg]
  21. Mastadge Manager Emeritus

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    Jun 4, 1999
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    I'd say it really depends on the character. Some characters, their appearance/race is a pretty intrinsic part of the character. Others, not so much. I'm one of the people who would have no problem with a black Spider-Man, for instance. I think, however, that MA is correct about Superman, and that, for another instance, switching Power Man and Iron Fist's races wouldn't work, either.
  22. DAR Force Ghost

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    Jul 8, 2004
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    Hey it couldn't be any worse than Woody Allen playing James Bond.
  23. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2000
    star 6
    Ian Fleming's James Bond is also racist as **** (just TRY reading "Live and Let Die" sometime).

    I'm sure it bothers some people that he has grown less and less so over the last half-century of filmmaking, but I really don't have a problem with the change. Nor with the gradually toned-down misogyny.

    The thing about Bond, Batman, and Superman is that they are, at heart, wish-fulfillment fantasies. Of course when they were created a lifetime ago, it would have been inconceivable to see a non-white man as an elite British agent or a high-society millionaire. And despite some huge steps forward since these characters' creations (I wonder if Siegel, Schuster, Fleming, Kane, or Finger could even have imagined a black American president), no, we're not quite to the point where an Asian or American Indian can toss on a tuxedo and mingle with the hoi polloi as easily as a WASP. But damn, wouldn't it be cool if we had some medium at our disposal to explore a world where they COULD?

    Superman's race* isn't essential to his character. What IS essential is his status as an "all-American" farmboy, and unfortunately too few people are able to conceive of "all-American" meaning anything other than a blue-eyed white dude.

    As far as the visuals of superheroes, those costumes have undergone too many variations (and worked just fine) over the years for me to buy that a change of skin tone and hair texture is actually going to mess up the overall picture.

    *"race" here meaning skin color. His Kryptonian heritage is of course essential, duh
  24. Havac Some Guy Who Moderates Lit

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    Yeah, "He has this hair color now so it's ESSENTIAL that he have this hair color forevermore" isn't really significant. Bond's a dark-haired guy. Then Daniel Craig came along and he's blond and it makes **** all difference. Felix Leiter's appearance throughout the Bond movies has been wildly variable, with the only constant being that he looks nothing like he's described in the books. No one appears to have cared about Felix Leiter's physical appearance in the history of ever, because it's fundamentally irrelevant what color his hair is, or even, these days, if he's black or white.

    Hair color has little to nothing to do with character except in exceptional cases. Physical appearance only matters when it's tied in somehow to the essence of the character. Bruce Wayne has to be white, because it's a significant part of his background as a character that he comes from an old-old-money Eastern Seaboard family. And such families are white. That's just the way it is. If you change that, you change the character. To contrast, Peter Parker is a nice young man from the lower-income ranks of New York. Any race can fill that role. If you want a more complex case study, Jim Gordon's race is irrelevant in the modern age. It was relevant back when he was created, because major cities did not have black police commissioners in the forties and that's just the way it was. So if you wanted to create a police commissioner, he had to be white. Now, race is irrelevant to that role, so race no longer has anything to do with the nature of Commissioner Gordon's character.
  25. Rogue1-and-a-half Manager Emeritus who is writing his masterpiece

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    Nov 2, 2000
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    I can't believe you guys have been talking about this, but haven't yet boiled it down to the most essential fact: Gina Carano is smokin' hot.

    Well, seriously, I think she's being pretty facetious in that interview. She says that people want Fassbender and then the journalist basically feeds her a straight line. I don't think she's seriously putting the idea forward. But I would definitely be up for her as a Jason Bourne type character.