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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Amph James Cameron's Avatar (The Way of Water + sequels)

Discussion in 'Community' started by Clonuscant, Jan 8, 2007.

  1. NYCitygurl

    NYCitygurl Manager Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2002
    I hope so. I don't want this to be another Hobbit--where material perhaps should have been trimmed because three movies aren't reeeeeaaaally necessary but the director wants to fit EVERYTHING in.
     
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  2. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Well, The Hobbit was basically limited by it's source material- they can only make so much original content up to smooth out the edges and pad out the runtime- and they can't really radically change the story much to make it better suited to a more developed, longer storyline.

    Cameron can basically add or completely alter whatever he wants to come up with a story framework that can achieve the desired amount of content.
     
  3. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003
    I know exactly what you meant about the setting, I was just trying to point out how the attitude of "simply changing the environment will help," or how these movies might be planned around the settings Cameron wants to show, just display the root problem.

    I hope you're right about the number of sequels indicating a better story and better characters.

    Btw, I only saw "Dances with Wolves" when I was in 8th grade. :p It's not just the not-so-original story that made me say it lacks heart, or the theme... just about all stories are recycled versions of earlier ones... I think it's the characters that were the biggest weakness. Both Jake Sully and Neytiri are rather unoriginal stereotypes/archetypes without much depth. The villains were too, though at least the army guy had some charisma and humanity (though it was completely gone by the ending... and the pathetic business guy was just pathetic and had no redeeming qualities). The best character was probably the doctor, Grace. Hopefully Cameron has found a way to better develop the characters, then found out how the story should go from there, instead of the other way around. That's why I worry when Cameron says stuff like "next movie we'll explore the oceans, and there's other moons besides Pandora too." We know he's capable of developing characters well, but he seems to have been distracted from that in the first movie.

    What do the deleted scenes show? I don't have the DVD.
     
  4. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    They're only on the Blu Ray collectors edition- besides the 16 min added back into the film (Earth opening, school subplot elaborated/visited where they talk about Ney'tiri's sister being gunned down, added herd hunt sequence, Tsu'tey's death, some minor character additions with Grace, etc) there's at least 45-60 min of unfinished scenes in various stages (actual actors in set, mocap actors, rough N64-like renders, final or near-final, etc).

    There's more about the ritual Jake does to become one of the people- and how he's driven to complete it even though it could kill him (which leads to an extended vision quest trip type deal). I found it helped break up the paint by numbers facet to his training subplot by adding risk and character motivation.

    Trudy has a subplot where she's secretly stealing data from the scientists (reluctantly) for Quaritch (which is how he has Jake's logs to use against him later on), which contributes to her decision to change sides later.

    (It might have been Jake taking the data and Trudy ferrying it back but I forget off the top of my head)

    Parker tries to pull the plug on Quaritch's bombing mission after he starts recruiting miners to fill out his ranks- and is threatened into submission by Quaritch.

    The other scientists, alongside all the other Avatars we saw in the background, seize the control room during the battle.

    There's more but that's what I remember off the top of my head (haven't watched the deleted scenes in a long time).

    The stuff added some nice flavor to things and, though I can see dropping some things for pacing and time, i can also the loss of some of that flavor leaving things a little more bland.
     
  5. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000


    One detail brought up here that I hadn't thought about- this park is going to be spectacular at night. And narrated by Sigourney Weaver.
     
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  6. Aytee-Aytee

    Aytee-Aytee Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2008
    Ugh. I was still hoping Avatar land would be kicked to the curb, and Disney would put the funding into something actually important at Animal Kingdom. Like fixing the goddamn Yeti.

    Oh well, it means that the park will still be only a half-day park for me. Safari, Everest, Dinosaur, then drive to Epcot or something.
     
  7. CloneUncleOwen

    CloneUncleOwen Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2009
    Total class.
     
  8. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    The Bug's Life 3D show is pretty good as well (plus you get to walk amongst the detailed roots of the giant tree).

    (sidenote: giant tree, Avatar.. yeah, its gonna fit right in, heh!)

    The bird show (forget the name) is pretty neat as well (though it's kinda a one time thing). Having those huge birds swoop right over your head is pretty cool.

    However, I whole heartedly agree they need to fix the Yeti. I was fortunate enough to ride the ride before it ended up in stasis. On the upside- the crowds would likely gravitate towards Avatar Land when it opens (if only on account of it being new, if nothing else), which might finally allow them to close down Everest long enough to fix the Yeti.
     
  9. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Shelf of Shame Host star 9 VIP - Game Host

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    Nov 20, 2012
    What could they possibly do with the sequels? I can understand a second movie and maybe a third, but a fourth one? What, is there going to be some Reaper invasion with armies of golden Robocops?
     
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  10. Aytee-Aytee

    Aytee-Aytee Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2008
    Having watched the video...

    They announced Avatar Land 2 years ago at D23 2011. And now, this presentation....after TWO YEARS....all they have is a few props from the movie, a few screenshots from the movie, and a few pictures of Joe Rohde and his team of imagineers poorly photoshopped into the scenes from the movie.
    That's it. Two years of "effort".

    It seems that Team Disney Orlando is walking the fine line between comedy and tragedy. This is going to be bad. BAD.
     
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  11. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Well, this is just a tease for this con. They have a similar video of a guy standing in front of a bunch of Star Wars-themed crates (complete with one featuring an Artoo-shaped hole) but no other announcements about Star Wars Land yet.

    Also, keep in mind, the plan was always to base it on the first film and the sequels, and they've apparently revised the concepts and design already (another video from a year or two ago had a picture of Cameron and Imagineers lording over a model mock-up, with the guy on stage commenting that it was already completely different from what they were showing in the pic). So they are somewhat contingent on production designs for the sequels being finalized. And I think the Avatar sequels were supposed to start coming out earlier than they currently are slated to be. So that all would contribute to park delay.
     
  12. VadersLaMent

    VadersLaMent Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Apr 3, 2002
    The 2nd is supposed to be an underwater based adventure. The 3rd was to take place in space but in the Alpha Centurai solar system. I have no idea now what they intend to do with a 4th.
     
  13. Mar17swgirl

    Mar17swgirl Chosen One star 7

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    Dec 26, 2000
    Returning to Earth? It would make sense...
     
  14. VadersLaMent

    VadersLaMent Chosen One star 10

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    Apr 3, 2002
    I was just thinking that. Perhaps defeating a previous invasion(the 3rd film) from earth and answering back by essentially going there and removing what is supposed to be a dystopia according to the background of the film.
     
  15. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Jan 27, 2000
    Even if its not a large scale event and just a special mission, having Na'vi on Earth could be very interesting- either with breath masks or a reverse-Avatar situation with Na'vi piloting human Avatars.
     
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  16. Coruscant

    Coruscant Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2004
    I hope Cameron understands that besides the Na'vi, the big attraction of Avatar was and in any future films will be the planet Pandora itself. I foresee disappointing box office turnouts if they stray too much from that central attraction.
     
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  17. Mar17swgirl

    Mar17swgirl Chosen One star 7

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    Dec 26, 2000
    That's exactly what I had in mind - the Na'vi on Earth.
     
  18. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Shelf of Shame Host star 9 VIP - Game Host

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    Nov 20, 2012
    I thought Avatar was popular because the 'splosions looked real cool in 3D?
     
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  19. Aytee-Aytee

    Aytee-Aytee Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2008
    Keep in mind. It was originally announced two years ago. Two years.

    And it's not just Avatar either....the Seven Dwarfs Mine Train at Magic Kingdom was originally announced in January 2011. It's still only halfway built, and won't be open into May 2014. Over three years from announcement to completion...on ONE RIDE?


    Compare that to Universal. The Diagon Alley expansion to Wizarding World of Harry Potter was announced in May and is currently under construction.
    In less than one year, they closed Jaws, demolished Jaws, and are building Diagon Alley. Not just one attraction...but a whole GODDAMN LAND.


    /nerdrage
     
  20. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Jan 27, 2000
    Well, my point was that there was always going to be a multi-year wait since it was reliant on the production of the sequels- and the delays in their production would further the park delay and probably explain the concept revisions that also would add to the quiet status of the park.

    I have to get around to going back to Universal next time I'm in Florida- the last time I went was when Islands of Adventure first opened and sometime shortly after the Twister attraction replaced Ghostbusters. In that time, they've rethemed Lost Continent into Harry Potter, closed BTTF, Jaws, Earthquake, King Kong & Hanna Barbara... I'm shocked ET is still there.

    ET and T2 are the only surviving Studios attractions from the first 10-12 years of my attendance. It's all the more amusing considering it took a couple years for them to get Jaws working in the first place in the 90s.
     
  21. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    "Jumper" author to write 4 Avatar novels.

    From the description I can't tell if these are all adaptations of the films or not. That Cameron isn't writing these himself is news, though- when Avatar first came out he was talking about writing the novel himself, as if the movie was adapted from the book.
     
  22. JoinTheSchwarz

    JoinTheSchwarz Former Head Admin star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2002
  23. Barriss_Coffee

    Barriss_Coffee Chosen One star 6

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    Jun 29, 2003
    pleaselethimbeterminatorpleaselethimbeterminatorpleaselethimbeterminatorpleaselethimbeterminator
     
  24. Eeth-my-Koth

    Eeth-my-Koth Jedi Grand Master star 9

    Registered:
    May 25, 2001
    ¡Hasta la vista bastardos azules!
     
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  25. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Jan 27, 2000