James Horner discussion

I tend to bash this guy a lot, but he does have some good stuff. The soundtracks of his that I hear the most praise for are:

Glory
Willow
Star Trek: The Wrath of Kahn
Braveheart
Legends of the Fall
Krull

And he also has quite a few other good ones. So which James Horner soundtracks are good, and which are just ripoffs of his own or other work?

 

The Land Before Time is absolutely stunning.

I don't care that it was based on a children's movie, it is absolutely beautiful.

Go get it!

Aliens may be considered a Star Trek II and III rip-off, but it's a truely scary and exciting score that's worth the buy, IMHO. And "Bishop's Countdown" is one of the best action cues I've ever heard.

 

The problem with Star Trek II is that it's a complete ripoff of Prokofiev's "Alexander Nevsky," down to entire musical phrases just stolen. Krull tends to be good, but I think this is mostly due to the fact that people other than Horner did most of the orchestration of his themes.

I will acknowledge that Glory is good, but Willow is sort of a one-trick pony. For the most part, this guy is pretty limited in what he can do, and steals blatantly from himself, from Classical composers (woo! Public Domain!) and from Jerry Goldsmith (listen to the Alien soundtracks or the beginning of Battle Beyond the Stars).

Ims

 

If you think The Wrath of Khan was a rip off of Nevsky, you should compare Star Trek 3 - The Search for Spock with Prokofiev's Romeo and Juliet Ballet.

I liked Brian Grazer's comment during his Best Picture acceptance speach for "A Beautiful Mind."

(Paraphrased) And I'd like to thank James Horner for his most original score ever....

Horner is wayyy to derivative of his own work these days, more so than the early '80s when he borrowed from classical music.

I was gonna make a web page comparing clips to expose Horner's un-originality but I got too fed up with the guy to even bother.

-MoffJake

 

So it's ok for every other hip hop artist to sample other people's work for entire songs but it's not ok for someone to borrow phrases from classical artists?

I am not versed enough in classical music to pick out every single Horner lift. I listen to the score and if I like it I like it.

Deep Impact is good, Braveheart is excellent, Mask of Zorro is good and fun...

 

I never said anything about hip-hop "sampling" being okay (in fact, the Police ripoff turned my stomach). But anyway, the point is that the guy isn't very original.

And yeah, re: Star Trek 3. Stealing the Enterprise is as blatant of theft as you can get.

Ah well.

Horner's okay. He's just really limited in his ability--but when your audience isn't very discerning, I guess that doesn't matter. That's how people like Hans Zimmer have careers.

Ims

 

Well of Souls, how long is the Land Before Time soundtrack?

 

I am discerning. If something catches my ear, has blatent themes and melodies I like and also flows well and evokes emotions, then I consider it a good score. I don't care a hoot if it rips off some little known classical composer from 1849. I like Horner. He's no Goldsmith or Williams but he has written some awesome stuff.

 

It's about 60 minutes long.

Check out this review at Filmtracks.com for more info.

 

I really like the James Horner music that I've heard. So what if some of it sounds the same?
It's like what Strilo said, if I hear a tune and I like it, whoooohoooo!
Braveheart and Willow are really good.

 

I'd wager that Prokofiev is more well-known than Horner is, Strilo.

And fine, sure, he's Okay. I have no problems with listening to Horner's soundtracks--I simply don't consider him brilliant or profound.

Ims

 

I think for film score fans, it's not so much that Horner shows influence from classical music--Williams might have more of that--but that he self copies himself more than anyone else. Again, this is not people complaining about Zimmer making Gladiator sound like Mars, but a compliant that Horner's Deep Impact sounds like The Perfect Storm, Braveheart and Titanic, or the same motif that is present in Legends of the Fall, Willow, Aliens, The Mask of Zorro, etc. That being said, I must say that he has had more than a few memorable scores. Gradually I have become to criticize him less for it; in my view, Horner the composer is no different from what many filmmakers are doing, it's that they reach down for similar motifs and themes to reach a summation, and I look forward to that.

 

One thing that I have noticed in this thread are people saying that Horner rips of "person x", for which I agree wholeheartedly, but people are also forgetting to mention that while he is doing it, the tracks in question are still pleasing the ear...Don't forget that!

IMO, TWOK is my favourite Horner soundtrack - certainly one of his more original scores, closely followed by Aliens, and then Braveheart, but only certain sections. I think that percussion piece before the main battle is outstanding work.

I think that is where Horner is best suited. Pieces that require medium to heavy use of percussion, combined with woodwind.

 

IMO, TWOK is my favourite Horner soundtrack

You say this as if someone else's opinion matters...

 

Yeah but the Braveheart love theme was the most amazing love theme ever for a film... until "Across the Stars." IMHO.

James Horner does more than just good action stuff. As sucky as Titanic is as a film and as much as I hate the bagpipes and celtic music in the film, "Rose" is simply gorgeous and an amazing love theme. Horner's melody and Sissel's vocal work are simply divine.

 

yeah "for the love of a princess" was great in Braveheart.
i also like Glory and Aliens, those 3 are about the best scores he ever made!

 

I love the score of "A Beautiful Mind"... though in an review on Amazon.de, someone said its main theme was exactly the theme Horner wrote for "Bicentenial Man"... is that true? I've never listened to that one.

And by the way, I think the score for "A Beautiful Mind" sounds like music from the LucasArts game "The Dig" in some places... don't you think?

 

yeah that's true.......
james horner uses many of almost the same work in different of his movies.

 

He also used some of the same music from Enemy At The Gate in The Perfect Storm. Altogether, though, he's a very competent film composer with a good sense of melody. It really depends on what kind of film is being scored.

 

true, true...

 

Deep Impact is a decent score...but...

It seems like Horner's trying to copy William's strength with Leitmotif (is that how you spell it?) and it doesn't come off so well. The same three themes repeat OVER and OVER with very little change in the mood, unlike Williams who can make one theme evoke 5 or 6 different feelings depending upon whats happening onscreen. (Compare Imperial March in ESB to Death of Darth Vader, for example)..

Still, its an ok score, I like the themes themselves, but I wish he would've done more.

EDIT: Field of Dreams is good, too.

 

Darth_Rader,

I too love how JW turned the Imperial March upside down for Vader/Anakin's death scene. Incredible.

-MoffJake (who's tired of James Horner)

 

I just wanted to add, listen to the main title theme of Aliens - you know, that soft melodic, dreamy, track - and listen to the music in Clear & Present Danger where the Columbians are working out where the bomb came from. The music is IDENTICAL! I swear to God, it's like he lifted the track right off the Aliens CD!

 

Yeah and some people would say Williams ripped off Hook for Across the Stars...

 

Yes, the Beautiful Mind score (a great one btw) has a main theme that is shockingly identical to Bicenenial Man. I downloaded the Bicentenial Man mp3s just to check it out and was surprised at how close it was -- some people would even call it insulting. But my guess is that maybe Horner wasn't happy with the lukewarm reception of Bicentennial Man (who here actually saw it? I for sure didn't). So it would make sense to take the *good* part from Bicentenial and lift it, dress it up, and expand it for a much higher-caliber film like A Beautiful Mind where it would meet more ears. (It is expanded more and more complex-sounding in Beautiful Mind than in Bicentenial Man), so it's not a cheap rip-off, but it's like he re-tooled something to make it better.

In the end, I really can't be too harsh on Horner because I like to think of composers as artists just like painters and authors. They all will have their own signature style. As long as the work in the end is still interesting and they still have promise of knocking our socks off once in a while (Horner is still pretty young), I'm pretty satisfied and can look over the occasional lapses into "unoriginality." When I see the opening credit: "Music Composed by James Horner", I still get excited at the potential of hearing another good, if not great, movie score.

His best are: (very original and full-bodied)
-Legends of the Fall
-Braveheart
-Titanic
-Glory

Good ones:
-Perfect Storm (I like the main 6-note motif that mimics a swelling and crashing wave looped over and over again).
-The Mask of Zorro (I like the pop song too, it's nice)
-Beautiful Mind (It stands on its own feet regardless of Bicentenial Man rip-off)