Clone Wars Jango Fett: a True Mandalorian?

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by General Immodet, Aug 3, 2013.

  1. General Immodet Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2012
    star 4
    When I was watching the Mandalore arc in Season 1, I could not help but feel as if the makers intended Jango Fett to be a member of the Death Watch. Obi-Wan told Satine he encountered a Bounty Hunter wearing the same armor as the Death Watch.

    However, according to the broader EU, Jango was an enemy of the Death Watch.
    Normally, Jango is considered to be a True Mandalorian whose mentor Jaster Mereel was slain by the Death Watch.

    Discuss!
  2. Kualan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 4, 2008
    star 4
    Nothing in the Mandalore arc in TCW contradicts Jango's background. It was pretty clear that Obi-Wan was referring to the generic Mandalorian armour design that the TCW Death Watch adopt, rather than any specific clan affiliation between Fett and the DW.

    I know some folks got a little knotted when Almec declares Jango Fett was not a Mandalorian, but that's more to do with taking the statement literally rather than inferring its intent. Almec merely meant it in the same way we might dismiss criminals IRL as "no true American/Brit/Frenchman" etc if it's perceived that their actions go against the societal norm.
    Last edited by Kualan, Aug 3, 2013
  3. General Immodet Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2012
    star 4
    Didn't Mandolorians like Jango (and I am not talking about the Neo-Crussaders) each have their own kind of Mandalorian armor.
    So, how would the Death Watch steal it?
  4. Kualan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 4, 2008
    star 4
    There's a thousand and one fans out there who will know much more about this than I, since I wouldn't describe myself as a big Mandalorian fan, but my understanding is that Mandalorians are incredibly individualist when it comes to their armour, but that there are general trends that span across designs. This might be because warriors are identifying themselves as members of the same clan (S4-S5 Death Watch all have very similar colour schemes, though there is a large variety of individual markings, for example), or because they're making certain statements about themselves. I think there is some kind of loose colour scheme where red armour refers to a certain trait, gold armour refers to another, etc.

    But all Mandalorian designs, no matter how custom, seem to be built on the same approximate template that we identify OOU as Jango and Boba's set. Even heavily customised, you can look at a set like this for the first time;

    [IMG]

    And immediately think "Mandalorian". Which is what I assume Obi-Wan did with the Jango connection he makes.
    Circular_Logic likes this.
  5. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2011
    star 4
    I didn't have to write this! I didn't have to write this! Someone else did! Hooray! [face_dancing]
    Last edited by Dark Lord Tarkas, Aug 3, 2013
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  6. JackG Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2011
    star 4
    And Almec was such an honourable and trustworthy man.
  7. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2011
    star 4
    [face_rofl][face_laugh]:_|[face_laugh][face_rofl]


    Dear Crom, please let me remember to add that if it's ever left to me to explain that again.
  8. darklordoftech Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    That Jango and/or Boba is/was part of any Mandalorian faction is totally EU. The ESB novelization says that Boba wears "the sort of armor worn by a group of evil warriors defeated by the Jedi Knights during the Clone Wars". Marvel created the Mandalorians based on that description and (perhaps incorrectly) made Boba one of them.
  9. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2011
    star 4
    I started collecting the Marvel series last year and I'm up to the ESB adaptation now. I always get a good laugh reading the letters columns when the fans and editors talk about various continuity problems they were already having even then.

    I learned there were people who are so dedicated to the continuity at the same time there were a number of people trying to tell me that Star Wars continuity has never been broken as badly as TCW broke it, so reading stuff like that in comics that came out before ESB really had me laughing out loud a few times, just because the only context I had was so warped.

    And this is relevant to this discussion. Is Jango Fett a true Mandalorian? It's Star Wars, either way you're gonna have the option of going with the "official" canon or whatever the other options are. I think that's an asset to the franchise, personally.
  10. General Immodet Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2012
    star 4
    Thank you all for giving me your vision of Jango Fett and his relationship to the Mandalorian culture.
    darklordoftech likes this.
  11. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    My two cents:

    I think Almec meant literally that Jango was not a Mandalorian. When he says that Jango was not a Mandalorian, he ties that statement to the assertion that Jango should not have access to Mandalorian equipment.

    If Almec was only dismissing Jango in the same vein that a "true American" would not commit a crime, then there would be no logical means of association as to why Jango could not have acquired Mandalorian armor.

    As an analogy. Let's say terrorists in Abrams tanks roll into a Chinese town and decimate several buildings and kill many innocents. The Chinese government then comes to the American government and observes that the terrorists were using American equipment. The American government claims to have no affiliation with these Chinese terrorists and claims ignorance as to how they could have come into possession of an American tank. Those two statements flow together logically -- the American government does not know because the American government had no dealings with the terrorists.

    Now rewind the analogy and say it's an American AWOL soldier in an Abrams tank that slaughters Chinese civilians. The American government then denounces the individual as "no true American" (due to his actions) and then claims to have no knowledge as to how he could have an American tank. Those two statements do not flow at all. The government knows full well how the AWOL soldier had access to a tank... He is an American soldier, regardless of whatever rhetoric the government uses to denounce him.

    If Almec is denouncing Jango as a Mandalorian merely by account of his actions, then there is no logic as to how he could then claim ignorance as to how Jango had Mandalorian equipment. Jango would have Mandalorian equipment because he was a Mandalorian, whether or not he tarnished that title is irrelevant. The only way Almec could claim ignorance is if Jango were truly NOT a Mandalorian.

    Now as @JackG said, Almec could be flat out lying - perhaps to deflect attention away from corruption within Mandalore's government. But as part of that lie/truth (whichever it is), Almec must be claiming that Jango is NOT a Mandalorian, IMO. It doesn't make sense otherwise.
    Last edited by TaradosGon, Aug 4, 2013
  12. Revanfan1 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2013
    star 5
    This, basically. Because it was firmly confirmed somewhere (don't remember where) that Almec was all high-and-snooty and didn't like Jango's ways, so he just said "he's not a Mandalorian" because he was bitter. Jango was Mandalore, for goodness' sakes! There's no way it would be firmly, canonically stated he was not a Mandalorian, at least not without ruining Jango Fett: Open Seasons and every one of Karen Traviss' novels.
    Dark Lord Tarkas likes this.
  13. Kualan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 4, 2008
    star 4
    At that point in the story, it is the official policy of Mandalore that the warrior days of the Mandalorians are long gone (they don't even publicly acknowledge the Death Watch problem until a little later). Almec's denial of Jango Fett as a Mandalorian was clearly a politician's knee-jerk reaction - whether it was a literal lie or in a 'no true American' analogical sense. Given that it was one line, uttered by a character who has reason to deny Jango's heritage (both as a loyal politician and a corrupt stooge) and is never touched upon again...I think it is safe to say that Jango's ancestry is still intact.

    That Almec...one of my favourite villains from TCW, and he proves it now by meddling with us OOUly too!
  14. General Immodet Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2012
    star 4
    I wonder what happened to him after the Maul/Mandalore Arc...
    Ultimately, Spar upsurped control of the Mandalorians, but what happened to Almec?
  15. Tado-Fett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 24, 2004
    I don't know why this is constantly being brought up. Nothing in that particular episode goes against Open Seasons. As per that storyline, Jango Fett wasn't born on Mandalore. He was born and raised on Concord Dawn, and was adopted into the True Mandalorian culture by Jaster Mereel once Death Watch murdered Jango's family.

    When Almec denied Jango was Mandalorian, he was trying to deny there was a resurgent warrior faction or that Death Watch was a concern. As others said, it was convenient for him to downplay it when speaking to Obi Wan. In any case, speaking literally, Jango wasn't from Mandalore, so what he said is true, from a certain point of view.

    Open Seasons is evidently held as canon in Clone Wars, as Filoni intentionally had them incorporate many elements from that particular story into the series. Amongst others, these include Death Watch, their motivations, the Death Watch symbol, Pre Viszla being of the same clan as Tor Viszla, some of the background about Mandalore, and the comment about Jango not being Mandalorian, etc. I think Open Seasons and the show work together quite well.
    Last edited by Tado-Fett, Aug 5, 2013
  16. DarthJenari Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2011
    star 4
    The basic Death Watch Armor is just slightly a slightly altered version of the armor the True Mandalorians used. If you only ever saw a few of each, and didn't know the history of the group it'd be very easy to think they were the same, with one just having a different helmet and markings due to individual style. This, to me, seems to be what happened with Obi-Wan. He wasn't raised on Mandalore, or born there, but Jango Fett was indeed a Mandalorian. Almec's statement seems to be nothing more than him dismissing that part of Mandalore's past. To him, Satine, and the rest of the New Mandalorians they are the only actual Mandalorians, and any other groups are pretenders. And there were indeed other groups during this time period.
  17. El Jedi Colombiano Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2013
    star 2
    According to TCW, Jango Fett was simply a bounty hunter that acquired Mandalorian armor. Besides, it seems to me that most Mando's and Death Watch dudes, (going by the TV series only) are very Nordic people. and Jango is more New Zealandish.
    cwustudent and darklordoftech like this.
  18. darklordoftech Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    GL said, "Jango isn't a Mando. Have a character state that."
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  19. Revanfan1 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2013
    star 5
    Give me a source...I'm pretty sure no one ever said that. :confused:

    Besides, even if he did say that, Jango being a Mandalorian is still canon and now–thanks to him retiring–it always will be.
    Tado-Fett likes this.
  20. Tado-Fett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 24, 2004
    I think we're talking in circles here. No, Clone Wars did not definitively state Jango was just a guy who got Mandalorian armor. You guys are reading way too much into a single statement by Almec, hardly a whole scale character rewrite of Jango, or even change.

    Yes, Jango was adopted into the Mandalorian culture by the True Mandalorians, but he wasn't from Mandalore and the EU never said he was. He was born on Concord Dawn, hence the different ethnic background and look. Open Seasons shows Fett's whole family looking like Maori's, so probably, that's what the ethnicity looks like on that planet.

    Almec's statement is technically true, but was a cop-out since he was downplaying that there were any Mandalorian warriors any longer, and any connection with a mercenary. So yes, from a certain point of view, Jango was just a mercenary from Concord Dawn who got armor, but that's an oversimplification on Almec's part as he was adopted by a Mandalorian outcast faction.

    I have never seen anything proving Lucas told Filoni to put that line in, but as Revanfan1 said, it doesn't matter. It is still consistent with the EU. I think people are looking for a contradiction or issue that just isn't there.
    Last edited by Tado-Fett, Aug 5, 2013
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  21. Trebor Sabreon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 15, 2010
    star 4
    Further, Almec never even said that Fett was "not Mandalorian." He never uttered those words. What the man did say was: "Jango Fett was a common bounty hunter. How he acquired that armor is beyond me."

    Folks are welcome to infer whatever they please from the context of the conversation, of course. It just drives me a little batty when I so often see it stated that Almec ":said Jango Fett wasn't Mandalorian," when this is technically incorrect.
    Tado-Fett likes this.
  22. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    Almec HEAVILY implied it.

    Obi-Wan states he encountered a man wearing Mandalorian armor. Almec dismisses Jango as a common bounty hunter and explains that he doesn't know how he could have acquired that armor. If Almec is not dismissing Jango as being unaffiliated with Mandalore and its culture, then he isn't even addressing anything that Obi-Wan says.
  23. DarthJenari Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2011
    star 4
    Considering the New Mandalorians dismiss everything from Mandalore's past that doesn't vibe with their current pacifistic lifestyle it doesn't really matter. At best, he's implying Jango isn't affiliated with them, which he wasn't.
    Tado-Fett likes this.
  24. Trebor Sabreon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 15, 2010
    star 4
    While I of course see how one could take the conversation as such, I respectfully disagree that it's the only way to view the scene.

    Let us consider the wider discussion at hand. Almec says "All of our warriors were exiled to our moon Concordia. They died out years ago." Kenobi then says "Are you certain? I recently encountered...," which is then followed by Almec's infamous quote. It seems that from the context of this conversation, Almec is most concerned that he convince Kenobi that Mandalorian warriors are a thing of the past, and that the important point to get across to Obi-Wan concerning Jango is that Fett does not represent the existence of a newfound, larger Mandalorian warrior movement, rather a lone-wolf, an independent contractor who somehow obtained a warrior's set of armor (so to Almec, there's wiggle room enough for the New Mandalorians to keep telling themselves that they are not yet dealing with a full-blown political crisis). So to me, the argument can be made that the distinction is not whether Jango was Mandalorian at all, rather whether Fett should be viewed a Mandalorian warrior, proper, or a more common Mandalorian bounty hunter.

    I'm afraid I'm not entirely convinced I was able to state my position all that clearly. My point being that there are different ways to interpret the conversation. "Certain p.o.v.," and all that.
  25. Tado-Fett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 24, 2004