January Meeting

Discussion in 'Orlando, FL' started by Pikaroth, Dec 22, 2003.

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  1. Ruckus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2002
    star 3
    Yeah its not just kids- its also the parents who were lazy good for nothings as kids. Coupled with the rise in teenage pregnacies and both parents working, plus with kids getting easy access to images of violence and horrific sexual acts and immediate gratification- whats to stop anyone when you can get what you want, when you want at anytime you wish? Granted the actual factors are varied and plenty. Plus socioeconomics and enviroment play big factors. Anyone can overcome these challenges but when there is no reason or reward in doing so, why would you walk the straight path?

    I envision it won't be long before there is a class war in this country when the have nots have nothing, when we get so tired of that small percentage that controls most of this countrys wealth. When college gets to such a astronomical rate that its unattainable to get a degree. When domestic businesses hire more foreign labor then domestic labor. When all there is left is service jobs. When the sick and dying out number the living. Granted this is a scenario hopefully down the road... but it is a possibilty that is plausible. The American Dream is quickly becoming just that--- a dream a unattainable dream.

    I don't imagine there is any quick fix, no problem when it gets so huge can be easily fixed and some problems you can throw all the money in the world at it, but if you are not doing the right thing to fix it- you won't fix it. People seem to think if you stop spending money on NASA and other things that 'have no useful societal purposes' you can better spend that money on societal problems, but when you don't know the full extent of the problem or have a clear concise way to solve it, then no matter how much you spend, you won't solve the problem, furthermore some problems cannot be solved, atleast not now or perhaps not ever. I guess all anyone can do, and have done for generations is pray that current mores and geopolitical dilemnas pass peacefully into the hereafter and not continue into the everafter.
  2. RogueScribner Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 4
    That pretty much sums it up. We play the hand we're dealt and we try to deal a better hand to the next generation. That's all we can do.

    L8r
  3. Ia-Bou Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2001
    star 3
  4. Pikaroth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2002
    star 3
    I do not believe anyone disagrees with attempting to make sure kids don't end up doing something terrible as they get older. It would be great if everyone could have a perfect home life, a great family, loving siblings, a nice dog and cat, get a great education, a job that pays well, etc. This, however, is not at all realistic. While I have almost zero sympathy for most people, I can count on one hand some people that do do "bad" things that I, believe it or not, do feel bad for and can see how they got to that point.

    In saying that, though, I could care less if you are beaten as a child, starved, etc., and then you go and mug someone, murder someone, rape a woman, touch a baby, and countless other stuff. If you do that, no matter *what* type of life you have had, you deserve to be terminated. Or, the term I like, simply put to sleep. Execuated, terminated, killed, etc. They all, oddly, have a negative tone to them. In reality, I could care less what you call it, but being put to sleep just makes it more acceptable to others. Plus, in an odd way, it is kind of funny.

    I say again, the main problem is that most people have been tricked into valuing human life, all human life. This is unfounded, ridiculous, and has zero to do with reality. Not everyone is born equal, that is just the way of things. There are people out there that are better than others. When you accept that, things begin to fall into place.

    Now, while it might, to some at least, sound as if I am being a jerk or not realistic about things, I am going to go out on a limb and say that I have more of a firm grasp than most here on what is actually going on. Most here know what I did for almost three years, what I still do on an exceedingly "part time" basis. I do not discuss it often, never did, but if I had the time to post even 1/10th of the stuff I have dealt with, well, it would shock a vast majority of the people who read it. Maybe in person one day. Maybe not.

    The truth is that no matter how tough or strong kids *and adults* act, a vast majority of them are scared most of the time. If they see that punishments are exceptionally severe for crimes they are thinking about comitting, they will think twice about it. Will some still do it? Yes, of course, that is just how the world works. Will it lessen crime? Without a doubt it would.

    Most of the justice system is a joke, and as you already said, with all the appeals, overrulings, etc., it goes nowhere. I can say, without a doubt, that in 99% of the cases tried, if not more, if the person is found guilty, he or she *is* guilty. Very, very few innocent people are in jail, and, statistically, those that might be innocent have done other crimes. There is the old saying, or something like this, "Better to have a thousand go free than for one innocent to be in jail." I disagree, and *that*, sadly, is the price any society pays for a justice system, no matter what country or society. A very, very, very small percentage of people that are locked up will be innocent, and we must accept that. Now, hopefully they will get out and have a "happy ending." Still, it is just how things are and no amount of Flower Power is going to change that.

    But that is another topic. Melanie is right, much of the time, a child can be tried as an adult, but this is complicated and would take too long to go into. Plus, we have, by and large, defined "adult" at 18, sometimes 17, years of age. Other countries say 16, some even say 14 (this is especially true in terms of "age of consent laws," another thing that we have discussed at the meetings in great detail).

    I am now tired, and I had at least three more paragraphs to go. However, it is 11:36pm, and I have to be at work early tomorrow. Thankfully, it is Friday! Which means, that's right, tonight was Thursday, and it was Survivor/Apprentice/Without A Trace night which means, again, that's right, Pizza Hut! It was good. Sadly, I am now thirsty and need lots of water.

    This is not to avoid the issue further, not at all, but I'm d
  5. Ia-Bou Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2001
    star 3
    Oh my goodness did you just write all that? You see I have no problem with writing...my script is huge but when it comes to reading eveything ive writtenit is torture....and thento read a lot of what someone else wrote...ahhhhhhh i cant do it...why is it so hard?

    I guess im a blurb reader.....can someone translate these long messages...I dont think reading the first and last paragraph worked this time.
  6. RogueScribner Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 4
    Hey, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I'd just like to state for the record that while I don't advocate killing/execution/murder as a general rule, that doesn't mean I don't think criminals shouldn't be punished. And IMO, death is far too easy an out for some people. But in the scheme of things, I think we (as in "society") need to look at how we can be productive and not destructive. I don't have any answers and I don't think anyone does really. Mistakes in how we deal with certain social problems are bound to happen. But we learn by doing and hopefully we'll make some progress along the way.

    BTW, Brandon, why does it always seem like we're on opposing sides of every issue? :p

    L8r
  7. Pikaroth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2002
    star 3
    I enjoy reading. Believe it or not, I read every post here no matter who posts it. Some people read (and write) faster than others. Hm, some of those fast readers, though, have no retention whatsoever, so, in that case, it would be better to be a slow reader... how confusing.

    I did write that just after you posted what you did. I am now writing this in response to what you posted to my response.

    iTs lik SO freakn' awSUM doodette. wez gots to be doWn wit da homies and nab us bof sum bling-bling wile we ryde or taun-tauns. ill be in da hood tmorrw, prob on the souf side of OBT pickn up some hos 4 my bros. gonna steel me a ps2 and mug a dood for sum grene bax and then bi us all som gr8 shiznit fizzizle 4 the neXXXt meatng. peace out. ttyl cya

    Brandon
  8. Ia-Bou Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2001
    star 3
    ok now that I understood...

    actually i just hate reading when i have a headache...like now because i get naucious
  9. chewbacca1138 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2002
    star 2
    UMMM...great posts guys, here goes mine.

    Oh, and keep in mind that the whole death penalty only applies to murder, rape and such crimes. Not something like robbing a store (unless, of course, you killed someone).

    First of all, I don't think we should have any of that lethal injection crap. If you killed someone, raped, whatever and are 1000% guilty, you should die like you made the other person suffer. I don't believe in any of that rehabilitation crap for these insane criminals. Let the doctors and scientists test on them, take them out to a yard and shoot them. Don't show them mercy by just letting them drift off to sleep. That's how the rest of us wish to die, no pain. Not to mention, the criminal will just be like, whatever. If you torture them to death, then they will gain something from their punishment before dying (that is if they don't learn anything in hell). I don't care if you guys think I'm a savage or whatever. That's what I believe.

    Now, as far as the kid thing. Well, first of all, you're not gonna torture some little 5 year old kid if he kills his little sister not knowing that punching (yes, a little kid punching his sister, read on and understand why he would not know the problems with this) her too hard or something will kill her, he is not yet cognizant of this. Yet, there is a point in life, like 12 or so, when a child acknowledges death. I mean seriously acknowledges, not just "Grandma went on a vacation and is not coming back." At this point, the child knows that killing is bad and what is required to take a human life, whether it is the amount of strength needed to choke a person or the hazards found in a common household. THEN, I believe, the child should be judged accordingly (I am not saying "like an adult" because that would contradict the trying of someone under 18 with the same laws). It also depends on maturity. Sure my 10 year old cousin understands the complexity of death, but he has been infested with the media showing infallible superheroes who can walk through fire and humanoid aliens that can regenerate body parts when they're cut off. At his age, he is not as mature as I was back then and he will not be as mature (at 17) as I am now. Yet, if a 12 year old kid was to enter their middle school with a gun and start randomly shooting, there is something SERIOUSLY wrong with the child, and the act needs REAL justice, whatever it may be.

    The system needs revising. No questions on that.
  10. tristan458 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2003
    star 1
    I believe that we need SWIFT and harsh punishment. Thats right swift, quick, fast and in a hurry. Look at those Middle Eastern countires, you get convicted of something and your sentence is carried out within the next week, if not the next day. Steal something, lose a hand. Rape someone, lose your manhood. Hell if you commit adultry over there you get stoned to death. Yep buried with just your head showing and people throw big rocks at your head and slap you with their shoes (which btw is a major insult over there) until your dead. What a way to go, and anyone can do it, not just an excutioner. Sure they might have religious freaks blowing stuff up everywhere, but the crime rates are down. Over here we have all these sympathy groups and crap, that want to stick up for the low lifes. I for one am sick of it.
  11. Phntmns Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2003
    HERE! HERE! I'll drink to that!

    Our society is too sympathetic, and always looking for a deep seeded cause for the problem. That's a load of BS. I for one had a pretty rough childhood. I CHOSE to make something of myself instead of robbing and killing, then blaming it on the fact that my mom and dad were divorced when I was little, and he used to beat me before that. I for one do NOT believe that what happened to you as a kid, is an excuse to get away with crime. If you're of sound mind to make the decision to commit a crime, be a man (or woman) and admit you're crime. Then take the punishment.

    I'm willing to bet each one of YOU have a similar story too that could be used as an excuse.

    If you do the crime DO the time, and quit crying about it.

  12. RogueScribner Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 4
    The only concern I have with the swift punishment idea is that so many wrongfully convicted people could suffer and die if that were the case. There needs to be an appeals process to protect their rights. I'm not well versed in law, so I don't know if a cap on how many times you can appeal and/or if a time limit exists or not, but I think if you set a time limit on appeals and/or set a maximum of times one can appeal his case then the system won't be as clogged and if the government does execute an innocent, no one can say the convicted didn't get a fair shake first.

    L8r
  13. tristan458 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2003
    star 1
    Check this link out. Pretty funny.

    http://www.genmay.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=310643


    Dale
  14. Pikaroth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2002
    star 3
    I actually saw that years ago, or what felt like years ago. However, there was an entire site dedicated to the stories of the Lego Star Wars figures. The one posted in that message thread was just one of many.

    Still, it is funny, and now I want that Star Destroyer again.

    Brandon
  15. Ruckus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2002
    star 3
    I agree with RogueScribners idea completely about killing isn't the best policy- no one can prove putting inmates to death lowers the crime rate. In fact, and this is only true for England- but who knows if this translated the same here- during hangings in England- back in the 15th century and possibly earlier into the early 19th century- pick pocketers would make there best earnings while the hangings where taking place and some of those hung were pick pocketers.

    No matter how you try to slice it or dice it- violence will always beget more violence. I mean most of the crap happening in this world is attributed to violence. We Tomahawk some AlQaeda training camps and they fly planes into the Trade Center. Spain helps us topple Saddam and either AlQaeda or Basque Seperatists or a combination of both kill over 190.

    Our system of justice is not perfect and unfortunately I don't believe a perfect system can be made, there is hope- unfortunately with so many laws and lawyers making new ones to insure we need them to interpret them, the system will only get more complicated and bloated like our society. There is a desperate need for a overhaul of it and when we have a system that has loop holes to allow the guilty to go free and innocent to be locked up something is really wrong- granted- thank God this is not the norm, but is a aspect that shouldn't be the case no matter what. Especially when it favors the rich.

    We are all entitled to equal justice but this is not the case. I pray we never get to a day when we use fear to gain order, which almost seems the underlying implication our system was built from, for when we do, a facist nation we will be and seem to be headed with the Patriot Act and waves of mass hysteria over possible terror threats. Watch the news and see how a lot of it deals with placing blame on a particular race of people or how the media plays up fear. Not to sound like a conspiracy theorists- this is a strictly societal observation- but when you distill so much fear into a society and make it believe that a race of people are to blame for the societal problems its facing and install policies to build, and in my opinon - false sense of security- you have the making of facisim.

    One day I hope those in power wake up and put greed and personal ambition aside and realize that there is a lot they can do to make things better. I don't believe I speak alone on this when I say our politicians and law makers are failing us miserably. I realize laws don't magically come into being and as magically become laws, but there are to few politicians doing the right things for our country and sadly they are the ones who have the shortest terms because they are trying to do what is right and not what is popular or will only benefit a limited amount of people. Even small steps can lead to bigger ones.

    Well... I know this went on for a while, but it is my sincere hope some people open up to different views or possibly rethink other ideas. I also hope everyone realizes there is no right or wrong ideas. No one person can have all the answers.

    One last thing, I agree it sucks big time to continue to use tax dollars to jail people for decades in some cases, but who do we think we are as a society to pass judgement on a person who has killed or raped a person. We are in a way no better then that person by killing them. I admit these are heinous crimes of nature and some people- I don't know how, claim knowing that the person who killed their loved one is dead themself is a coping release.

    Yet, most of these people will admit there is great animosity, hatred and loathing of that person long after they are dead, as they should, but in all actuality the killing didn't truly serve the purpose it was supposed to. You can't bring that loved one back by killing their killer. It boggles the mind. I personally don't understand executing a person for a crime. I do however understand the need for justifiable homicide in self defense and unfortunately in war, so don't think I believe taking a life is completely wrong, in
  16. RogueScribner Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 4
    I'm a huge free speech proponent, but unfortunately I do think the media has a role in all this. Violence is often sensantionalized and sex is everywhere. Different rules seem to exist in advertisements and entertainment than in reality. Too bad a good portion of our population are too stupid/ignorant to know better.

    Anyone seen Bowling for Columbine? Not a balanced documentary in the least, but I personally found it interesting (and kind of scary) how in yout face our media is and how easy the laws make it for us to get access to all sorts of guns to kill each other with. Canada has a comparable population base and a comparable amount of guns, yet their murder rate is far lower than ours. Why? Economics I think certainly plays a role in that answer. Education and personal responsibility are not strong points in our country. Too many parents let videogames and television raise their kids and that's a shame. Especially when the content isn't even remotely appropriate for the children watching.

    I never plan to have kids because, frankly, I don't think I could bear the responsibility of raising a well-balanced child in this world. Everyone is struggling to get by nowadays and nobody is paying attention to the walls crumbling down around us.

    It's enough to make you want to escape into some sort of fantasy. ;)

    So, how 'bout that Star Wars? Heh heh.

    L8r
  17. Pikaroth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2002
    star 3
  18. Pikaroth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2002
    star 3
    I just wrote a lengthy post, and then decided to delete it. However, you cannot delete a post, from what I can gather, so now there is a blank one there.

    Shortest post ever!

    Brandon
  19. tristan458 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2003
    star 1
  20. RogueScribner Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 4
    Brandon's upping his post count! A simple edit of "nevermind" wouldn't have sufficed? :p

    L8r
  21. Ruckus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2002
    star 3
    I wonder if my previous post to this one is the most lengthy so far?
  22. Ia-Bou Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2001
    star 3
    I have imputted no message
  23. Ruckus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2002
    star 3
    Ia you are in College right?
  24. Pikaroth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2002
    star 3
    Actually, she is "im" college.

    Brandon
  25. Ia-Bou Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2001
    star 3
    i get really hyper and it causes me to type very badly
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