Jar-Jar and Gollum

Discussion in 'The Phantom Menace' started by Darth-Vengence, Dec 29, 2002.

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  1. Indy2 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 2000
    star 4
    There is a reason GL gave Jar Jar so little time in AOTC. i.e. A very unliked character.

    Otherwise lucas would have had Jar Jar tagging along with Ani and Padme instead of giving jar Jar like 5 lines in the film.
  2. Levi8675309 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 8, 2003
    star 1
    Precisely. I don't understand for the life of me how someone could use the argument, "His role in the saga was complete." Don't lie to yourselves, he's a major character in TPM, probably more so than Obi-Wan, and is barely in AOTC. Why? If his role was over, why include him all? As far as I'm concerned, Jar Jar's only role was to unite the Gungans with the rest of Naboo, and that's not even related to the rest of the overall plot. No other character in a Star Wars film has had such a major role change, it would be like taking Han out of ESB and ROTJ.

    Jar Jar might be the most hated character in the history of cinema, and George wanted as little to do with him as possible. It's simple as that. Unfortunately, by Lucas not addressing the character whatsoever, his role in TPM just seems pointless, and we hate him even more for wasting our time. A good writer would have included Jar Jar to the extent that he was in it before.
  3. Darth-Vengence Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    star 4
    I agree.

    Jar Jar is a major character and should've been better established. Although, i do believe that Jar Jar should be in ANH in the AE if he survives episode 3.

    I believe like any major character, that his story should be ended on film, not just talked about.

    Plus, it would be a good little tid bit to add for continuity's sake.
  4. LordJedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 15, 2001
    star 4
    I just found this thread, but I have to comment on this post.

    We don't need anymore changes to be done to the classic trilogy. We don't need anything done for the sake of continuity. The movies look fine how they are. None of the classic characters would know anything about Jar Jar anyway.

    Leave it alone. Don't make anymore changes.

    I actually have nothing else to add to the current topic though. I think everyone here has made their cases clear and I agree with everyone that liked Gollum better :)
  5. ShortOrderSith Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 2002
    star 1
    I must say that Dexter>Gollum made me giggle. Really rather sweet actually...
  6. Darth-Vengence Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    star 4
    "I must say that Dexter>Gollum made me giggle."

    What ?[face_plain]
  7. Ekenobi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 4, 2002
    star 4
    I do not believe GL had him less in AOTC because of the dislike for him. I heard/read his role was just less in this one and will be more in the next. And I think it was a prettey big role in AOTC considering it was less time on sscreen. Giving Palps emergency powers which will turn things for the worse was pretty big. And he had some lines in there to. but it was not for the Jar Jar bashers that he put him in less. He fit in the story fine. Then you all would have complained he was in it too much. GL can not win.
    Like GL has said before he does not really care what critics say. He will make the movie how he wants. And I like it that way.

    Jar Jar Rules!!! Gullum Rules!!!! I just wish they would put out a figure of Gullum!!!
  8. _Xanatos_ Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2003
    star 3
    However Gollum was a better character than Jar Jar. Gollum's split personality was awesome, Jar Jar is just a joke.
  9. ackbar1 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    Jar Jar is a major character and should've been better established. Although, i do believe that Jar Jar should be in ANH in the AE if he survives episode 3.


    You cannot be serious about that.
  10. Darth-Vengence Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    star 4
    Actually, I am very serious.

    Not for many long scenes though.

    Maybe when they add a scene with Bail, Jar-Jar is there talking with him.

    Then, when they blow up Alderaan, Jar-Jar could be killed there too.

    End of Jar-Jar.

    :)
  11. Ekenobi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 4, 2002
    star 4
    I think Jar Jar is the better character. He has a good heart. He got Naboo and Gungans together and he tried to help the republic with the secession situation. Gullom, well is selfish and is trying to kill Frodo to get the ring.
  12. ShortOrderSith Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 2002
    star 1
    So because JJ has a 'bigger heart' he is the better character? So much for the creative spark....
  13. Ekenobi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 4, 2002
    star 4
    Yes. Because his intentions are good. Makes him a better characer. IMO
  14. ShortOrderSith Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 2002
    star 1
    If you live in tellytubby land perhaps.
  15. Frank_Booth Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2003
    star 1
    So good hearted means better character?

    Ric Olie is a better character than Palpatine or Vader? :p
  16. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    Jar Jar and Gollum are two different characters who serve completely different purposes in their respective stories. Trying to make a flat-line comparison between them is silly. The only thing they have in common is the techniques used to create them, and even that comparison is a bit dodgy at best considering that four years of technological advancements seperate them. It would be better to compare the CG characters in ATTACK OF THE CLONES to Gollum, and on that front, I'd say it's a toss up since there was equally impressive interaction in both films. Yes, TOWERS had a three way tussle (although with Jackson's peculiar style of shooting and editing action you can barely tell what the hell is going on, making this scene less impressive than it could be) while in CLONES you have CG characters hugging human actors (yes, I know Obi-Wan was CG from the waist down, but that's irrelevant. It's the illusion of interaction that is the important thing) and an impressive sword fight between a CG character and a human.

    (It's interesting to note that after seeing the incredible visual effects work done in ATTACK OF THE CLONES, PJ went back to WETA and had them recreate many effects from scratch because he wanted his film to look at least as good as CLONES.)
  17. Ekenobi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 4, 2002
    star 4
    Well yeah. Ric would be. He is not tryong to rule the galaxy or killing someone for thier mistakes. So yeah he is.

    Bottom line is eactly what Durwood said. These two are not comparable. Two different characters. But I preferr Jar Jar.
  18. JenX Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 26, 2002
    star 3
    Yes, TOWERS had a three way tussle (although with Jackson's peculiar style of shooting and editing action you can barely tell what the hell is going on, making this scene less impressive than it could be)

    Even though I found this scene to be quite easy to follow, there are numerous other scenes in which Goillum interacts with real actors, many of which (unlike the "tussle") were filmed in the day.

    while in CLONES you have CG characters hugging human actors (yes, I know Obi-Wan was CG from the waist down...

    Quick question: was Obi Wan "false" from the waist down? I only ask because I seem to remember reading that Obi was 100% CG in that diner scene (or his head was real, but his body was CG).

    (It's interesting to note that after seeing the incredible visual effects work done in ATTACK OF THE CLONES, PJ went back to WETA and had them recreate many effects from scratch because he wanted his film to look at least as good as CLONES.)

    Do you have a source for that? I know that PJ visited the Episode II set, but I thought that was purely to get some technical advice on pre-visuals from someone at ILM. I haven't heard anything about Peter Jackson getting people to recreate work done on LOTR so that it would look as good as AOTC.
  19. Darth Geist Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 1999
    star 5
    He did some pickup shooting for TTT after AOTC premiered. Whether or not these things were related, or whether that's just the way Jackson's schedule worked out, is anyone's guess.
  20. redxavier Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2003
    star 4
    I think it's laughable that gushers praise Lucas for the accomplishments of ILM.

    I've come to the realisation that GL doesn't assume credit for other people's work, but that gushers give him credit instead.
  21. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    Giving the visionary credit is a common practice. I'm surprised you've not heard of it. Henry Ford is credited for the automobile revolution, but not because everybody thinks he built every single Ford automobile with his bare hands. He provided the vision that was necessary to inspire others to realize it. This is why Lucas gets the well deserved credit for the success of ILM and Skywalker Sound.
  22. ShortOrderSith Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 2002
    star 1
    Pickup shooting probably doesn't involve effects work, just little character moments.
  23. Punisher Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 1998
    star 4
    Lucas makes the money from work ILM does for other filmmakers. What's next?
    He needs to take the individual Oscars home as well? ;)

    I understand the argument since GL was founder and provided a vehicle for the work, but really the early studio effects artists (Trumbull and others) were the pioneers of modern effects, they all used blue screens and models, the arists of ILM were the ones to expand and advance those techniques, still, I don't see many people giving Richard Edlund, John Dykstra, Dennis Muren and others involved credit.
    I guess it's easier to type George Lucas. 8-}

    Since I haven't seen LOTR:TTT, I can't comment on Gollum's role in the film.
    I will say that WETA used a different technique for Gollum (They sculpted a double size, fully detailed model of Gollum and scanned THAT for the 3D model and painted out the blue clad actor and replaced him with the character.) than what was used for Jar Jar and for the LOOK of Gollum in stills and in ads, he looks amazing.

    Obviously, effects technology is going to advance and I'm sure CG characters 10 years from now will make both characters look like stop motion puppets from a Harryhausen film.

    So in due time, this discussion will be irrelevant. 8-}
  24. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    So in due time, this discussion will be irrelevant.

    As far as I'm concerned, it already is.
  25. Darth-Vengence Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    star 4
    Jar Jar and Gollum look very real. I liked both characters in their respective roles.

    They fit them very well.

    But i'd say that Jar-Jar looks more real than Gollum, just a pinch.

    My mom didn't know that Jar Jar wasn't real, she thought there was a guy in a suit!

    Ha [face_laugh]
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