JC and FF

Discussion in 'FanForce Communications' started by DarthJurist, Oct 10, 2002.

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  1. DarthJurist Admin Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2000
    star 5
    As part of a recent debate in the JC Comms forum, I discovered that there are different views about the role of FF within or as part of the JC.

    So my question is this: What is the relationship between the JC and FF?

    The follow up questions:

    Is FF part of the JC? Are all JC policies binding in FF forums? Only some? Does it depend on the policy in question? Are the GSAs and RSAs subject to supervision by the JC Admins? Do you guys post in the ModSquad, or just stay in the OFH?

    While there seems to be a great deal of autonomy, at times FF seems to be very much under the JC umbrella.

    Should I not worry about such things, and go back to posting in the Star Wars ABC thread.... 8-}

    I'm not looking to complain or ask for changes, just seeking clarification.

    ~H~
  2. Shara_82 Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2001
    star 5
    The same rules and conditions apply in FF as they do in the JC. We all follow the same Terms of Service and basic rules. If a policy is instigated in the JC, it will also be followed in FF.

    However, we are not supervised by them. We take care of Fanforce, they take care of the JC, and unless there is something that affects us both, the JC will generally not have much impact on how we take care of things in FF.

    As for Mod Squad, yes we post there. Some more than others, but yes. ;)
  3. Charis Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2002
    star 6
    Good post DJ - it's almost like you read my mind cos I was wondering the exact same thing.

    Thanks Shara :)
  4. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    If I may interject?

    It seems to me in FF the rules of the JC aren't as strictly enforced. Not a judgement on the CR's or RSA's, just the way it ends up since each city forum is a community.

    All in all, if the FF is considered part of the JC the arrangment seems less formal and more of a matter of convienence.
  5. Darth_Asabrush Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2000
    star 5
    I know that I give my forums some space regarding some rules in the JC. This is due to the cultural differences between the UK and other parts of the world.

    eg: I know that a lot of innuendo that I allow in FFUK would be edited or locked in the JC.
  6. Jon_Snow Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 4, 2001
    star 3
    This is due to the cultural differences between the UK and other parts of the world.

    Let?s say you had someone whose came from a culture where there was a heavy obligation to retaliate to any insults with extremely vulgar and profane insults of their own, as a matter of protecting ones personal honor. If they don?t, they might lose face/honor/a yak in front of their tribe/village/whatever. So, do you respect this persons cultural obligations and allow him or her to curse and swear freely every time they perceive themselves to be flamed?

    I hope not.

    Rules are rules, and they should override cultural differences. For better or for worse, these boards are owned by a couple of Americans (and from southern states too, if I?m not mistaken), and it?s their perception of what?s right and what?s wrong that should be the standard guide over the boards. If a moderator thinks something is alright by American PG-13 standards, cool. If they don?t think that it?s American PG-13, then they shouldn?t allow it, even if their culture finds it more acceptable.

    Just my 0.02.
  7. Charis Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2002
    star 6
    Much as your argument is a valid one, it fails to take consideration of the fact within the JC forums there is use of American swear words that must obviously be permitted because of American culture, but would not be considered acceptable PG-13 in other countries.

    Within our FF, we use language that is PG-13 rated by British standards and our innuendo is also PG-13 - nothing you would not see in a Carry On movie for instance. It adds to the flavour and variance of the forums and IMHO, makes the FF a more interesting place. Frankly, it is unlikely that anyone would enter FFUK without expecting it to have some British culture in it.

    Most of us don't know enough about Southern American culture to use it as a basis for our posts and frankly, since the ToS doesn't state Southern Baptist behaviour only, I think we are within the rules ;)
  8. Jon_Snow Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 4, 2001
    star 3
    Much as your argument is a valid one, it fails to take consideration of the fact within the JC forums there is use of American swear words that must obviously be permitted because of American culture, but would not be considered acceptable PG-13 in other countries.

    This is a board owned by Americans, located on a server somewhere in western America. Why shouldn?t the values of this board be what they perceive PG-13 to be? I recognize that everyone?s ideas of what is acceptable are going to be different, and that we shouldn?t cater to the extremes (ex. people who believe that Star Wars/Harry Potter/Lord of the Rings is unacceptable for children to read about). But I don?t think that the owners are being so terribly strict. I think that the general idea is, if it couldn?t be said in a Star Wars movie or book, it can?t be said. That seems pretty fair given that this is a Star Wars board.

    Within our FF, we use language that is PG-13 rated by British standards and our innuendo is also PG-13 - nothing you would not see in a Carry On movie for instance. It adds to the flavour and variance of the forums and IMHO, makes the FF a more interesting place. Frankly, it is unlikely that anyone would enter FFUK without expecting it to have some British culture in it.

    See my above example. Or say that a culture finds nothing socially unacceptable about pornography. Should they be allowed to post pornography in their FanForce forum because that?s part of the local culture and it adds flavor to the forum? I don?t think so. I think that most people would say that they couldn?t.
  9. Charis Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2002
    star 6
    Nope, it should be PG-13 acceptable within a reasonable standard.

    But variation will occur, it already occurs within the JC itself. Plus some allowance must be permitted for board subject - for instance, take the Amphitheatre. Nudes are a major part of art - are we banned for posting a link to a painting by a famous artist just because we wish to discuss it? Nope, but if you posted a link to a naked painting of Carrie Fisher in the SW Misc forum, it might not go down too well (although I could be wrong on that :)).

    Server location is actually irrelevant if you wish to argue as a point of law. This is an international board providing an international service.

    Using SW as a reference, Lucas has to comply with UK legislation even though Lucasfilms Ltd is based at Skywalker Ranch. Hence, the UK version of AOTC did not have the headbutt in as it would not have received the PG Certificate.

    You have to be rational about these things - of course pornography would not be allowed, but to make us all comply with American standards would for one be unreasonable and frankly, what makes you so certain that American behaviour and language usage is better than everyone elses? Come on, don't you realise how arrogant and insulting that is?
  10. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    The board however is owned. that means it's owners have the perogitive to make rules which must be followed. They have chosen to exercise that right as far as cursing and a few other things go.

    Basically, this is their sand box and if you want to play in it, no matter where you are, you have to follow the rules they set up.
  11. Charis Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2002
    star 6
    That was my point Farraday. As long as we don't break the rules, then that's fine. Darth_Asabrush doesn't allow us to break the rules :)
  12. Darth_Asabrush Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2000
    star 5
    Rules are not broken but the ToS do allow for interpretation. We on the UK boards don't openly break the rules then shout "cultural differences". But, with different Mods from around the world you will have different modding styles.

    One of the major things I let go is innuendo. Innuendo is found in the Austin Powers movies, The Carry On movies etc.... nothing wrong with it. However, some Mods may think differently and lock it.

    Quite frankly, the examples used are extreme IMO.
  13. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    If I may?

    Using the search function to search for curses has shown that, especially in non english speaking FF's there seems to be a laxness about cursing.

    Since the no cursing rule is one of the few that I kow of that comes from the staff and not the mods, I can think of no reason why they should not be enforced.
  14. Woofer Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2001
    star 4
    OK, I'm stepping in.

    Where do you get the idea that these boards are rated PG-13?

    They aren't! If you read the Terms of Service they obviously describe a rating that would be considered Family, or General, or Universal or whatever its called in your country.

    The only place the age 13 is mentioned at all is compliance with a US law that states that users who register for a service on the internet must be at least age 13. As TheForce.net is a US-based website, they have to comply with that federal law and place that restriction for registering.

    However you do not have to register to read the messages. Anyone, of any age, can read the messages posted. That is why the terms of service are written as they are.

    This is a family oriented website, not PG-13. If the only way to read the messages posted here is by registering, then I can see the argument. However it is not a requirement to be able to read the messages, and there are certainly people under the age of 13 who are fans and are reading these boards. As such, the owners ask that messages follows the family-oriented terms defined, and we must follow their request.
  15. Darth_Asabrush Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2000
    star 5
    I can only comment on the UK forums as my use of foreign languages isn't great.

    When talking about FF I refer to FFUK where swearing etc... is dealt with in the normal JC manner.
  16. Charis Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2002
    star 6
    Swearing and cursing is certainly not as common a feature of FFUK as it is on some other FFs or even the JC. There are quite a few forums that actually get around the search facility because their users replace letters within the curse word, which in itself is against the ToS.

    EDITED to add that DA does not permit the @ symbol to be misused! And I can't speak for European forums either - only for the British Isles one.
  17. Obi Anne FF admin Celebrations, Europe

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 1998
    star 7
    Quite often the people who doesn't speak the language in the non-English forum have a tendency to misinterpret the use of what you call swearwords. For example I know that there are some people around that have been upset by what they've seen in the Swedish forum, where we have been discussing a film that is maybe the most famous Swedish film during the last years, it was even up for an Academy Award, but in the original Swedish title it has a swearword in it.

    It would be good if those people asked what the posts were about before screaming that the FF boards are lax.
  18. Charis Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2002
    star 6
    Woofer - I had to search my brain for where the 13 comes from :) The sign up conditions - users have to be 13 or over to sign up for the board. That's why a lot of people consider the rating to be 13.
  19. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    While that may be technically the case it isn't enforced. Basically because it can't be.
  20. Charis Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2002
    star 6
    Alas, that is true. But there has to be a line drawn as to responsibility of a messageboard vs. responsibility of a parent. Kids under 13 should not be on the Internet without parental supervision - if they are, then I'm pretty sure that they have already seen far worse than anything on here.

    Don't get me wrong Farraday, I think the idea of these boards being family ones is a honourable one :)
  21. Padme Bra Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 1999
    star 6
    I agree with Charis. If we say that you have to be 13 to sign on here then we should moderate the content appropriatly. If kids younger than that are logging on then that's the fault of the parents, not ours. Our responsibility ends with the notification upon registration. If parents are incapable of monitoring and controlling their kids' internet access then they probably have a lot more problems than our site.
  22. Darth_Asabrush Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2000
    star 5
  23. Woofer Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2001
    star 4
    Gah!!!

    Listen peopole. It is very very simple.

    Read what I posted. I mean actually read it!!

    The age 13 is only there because US law demands it!!!!

    If TF.n was a Canadian board, or Australian, it wouldn't be there! Therefore you have to look at what the Terms of Service and Code of Conduct describes as appropriate for the forums, and what they describe is not a 13+ area. It describes an all ages website.

    That is what the oweners of this site wants. They want it so anyone, of any age, can safely read these messages, with parents or not.
  24. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    I would also point out you don't have to log on to read the posts.

    Besides, it isn't a legal matter, it's what the staff wants to be and thy've chosen family friendly.
  25. Woofer Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2001
    star 4
    Thank you farraday, you are seeing the point I'm trying to make.
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