[JCC] Discussion about the spoiler policy in YJCC

My position hasnt changed. I still think HTR is the way to go. I'm of the opinion that we shouldnt have two threads for the same discussion. Especially since it isnt just for one movie or TV show, but will invariably end up being for any show that people want.

And leave the Survivor thread out of this. We were supposed to try out the HTR for it and see if it worked. Mastadge decided to singlehandedly (and without consulting JCC mods) allow a No Spoiler thread in the Amphitheatre. Its his own decision as to what he has in his forum, but it invalidates the entire JCC exercise. That means you simply cannot use the Survivor thread in any example. It has to be excluded from discussion, because the Survivor HTR thread was never given a fair chance to work.

 

Well done to mastadge then.

Tell me Dagsy or anyone, how many HTR(highlight to read) threads are there?

And frankly saying it wasn't given a chance because members didn't want to do it seems a bit silly. It was given a chance and they didn't want it.

 

There's not many. The Spiderman 2 thread, a few other new releases. It should be cleared out pretty soon, after this it shouldn't be a problem.

 

It seems to me that some of the JCC mods think that the JCC communityshould only want what they want it to have.

Or, should I say, what they allow them to have.

 

It seems to me that some of the JCC mods think that the JCC communityshould only want what they want it to have.


I don't see the relevency of comparing us to totaltarians due to the fact that we're testing a new policy that we feel will better serve the community as a whole and cut down on unnecessary threads. At this point in time, this policy hasn't even been given a fair amount of time to show conclusive results either way and you're already calling for it to be repealed. It has been a little over month since we put it into effect, relax and let things work themselves out. The policy will be reviewed within the future, most likely before the end of the summer and the truth will come out on how effective it is. It's just a matter of having patience and trying new things which may better serve the community in the long run.

 

But noone is using it, theyre going to the ampatheatre were they can avoid any spoilers.

That alone should let you know it wont work. To many people simply dont seem to want HTR.

 

But noone is using it, theyre going to the ampatheatre were they can avoid any spoilers.

One thread does not a trend decide. It doesn't provide a pattern.

If people stopped making threads in the JCC to cover movies/TV shows/etc, and the Amphitheatre started to get overrun with "no spoiler" threads, then you would have more of a case.

As said before, we would evaluate the policy in a few months (plural, not singular). I see no reason to change that decision now just because you are imparient over incomplete and inconclusive evidence.

Kimball Kinnison

 

But noone is using it, theyre going to the ampatheatre were they can avoid any spoilers.


Thank you for validating and confirming my point that the HTR hasn't been given a fair shake in the JCC. As Dagsy said before, the Survivor thread cannot be used as an example since it was never given a chance to work. The basic situation now is that people will just post in The Amphitheatre and avoid the HTR thread, and some will do it just for the sake of being able to say "Well you see, the HTR obviously isn't working."

 

This isn't too different from economics.

Two competing threads exist. One is HTR and the other is no spoilers. All in all, the same pool of members exists for both threads. Given a choice, the vast majority preferred a completely non-spoiler thread to post in, rather than posting in a thread where HTR was the policy.

The community's preference is clear. It might well be different for another TV show or movie. However, it goes to show that sometimes, exceptions should be made for the rules, and that the rules should always have reality in mind, rather than just ideals.

The policy seems to exist at least in part because there shouldn't be a double standard with other shows or movies getting separate threads (one for HTR/spoilers and the other without spoilers). However, there doesn't seem to be a market (so to speak) for many other shows or movies that would actually create a problem, so there wasn't much need for the policy change.

In short, the policy appears to be based more on ideals than the reality of the community.

The basic situation now is that people will just post in The Amphitheatre and avoid the HTR thread, and some will do it just for the sake of being able to say "Well you see, the HTR obviously isn't working."

And why not? The Survivor community clearly doesn't want much to do with a HTR thread, and they spoke by taking their posts elsewhere.

 

Listen to KW you must, wise in the ways of moding he is.

---

EDIT



Here's an idea that could make application of the rule of which thread to allow fit the community better.




When something comes out, allow a NSA and a HTR thread for it. If one gets an overwhealimg number of regulars within it (regular = a post every 1-3 pages depending on speed of thread) then close the other. If they get a somewhat equal number of regularts within, then let both stay.

 

I don't see a problem with inserting myself into a conversation a few pages back. My opinion is taken just the same as the first poster. It doesen't matter.

 

I would point out too in the Spiderman thread an entire synopsis of the movie was posted un darkened and it was over 12 hours before a mod came in to make it htr.

I'm sure that could be much reduced by having spoil free members complain to a mod about being massively spoiled, however that kinda ruins the point of being unspoiled doesn't it?

So instead no spoiler members are avoiding these threads, and the threads themselves are not doing well at all.

I'm sure I don't draw the best flow charts but if a visual aid will help go ahead and tell me and I'll try and make one.

 

12 hours ?


Damn, thats a long time.

 

I thought it was longer than that. I read the unhighlighted spoiler in it's original thread as SMII doesn't do it for me either way.

 

Longer than 12 hours ?


Were are the JCC mods ?

JCC has a ton of mods for a reason, and they claimes their new order would be more efficent.

/is force choked.....

 

The mods were there, and they were doing their job just fine. They just happened to miss something. They're human, just give them a break. What happened happened.

 

That it took 12 hours would seem indicative of a few things.
1. Putting both spoiler and non spoiler in the same thread gives ample opportunity for non spoiler to get spoiled. This can also happen in a non spoiler thread, but the difference being posting spoilers there is a blatant no-no. In this case the person was posting in the right area, but the net effect is still a ruining of non spoiler folks.

2. This particular HRT thread is of no use as proof of the systems effectiveness, since quite obviously there were either no regular non spoiler posters, or no one really cares about what's goign to happen in the next spiderman movie.

All in all I think the HRT rule is a good example of trying to mash odd sized pegs into the same type of hole. In one case, survivor, making it HRT drove awya almost every regular poster and in the other case apparently no one cared either way about spoilers.

This poilcy is failing on two fronts... yet still we have another month to go before the mods can decalre it a perfect sucess but 'temporarily' get rid of it anyways because of some minor technical issues then never bring it up again.

Can anyone find me an example of this actually working?

 

To be fair, if anyone was really upset by the spoiler in the SM thread, it would have been a matter of a few clicks to get it taken care of (you know, that handy little PM link to point it out.)

 

That's part of my point. If anyone was upset it either took 12 hours for the mods to respond to their complaints, or it took them 12 hours to log on, be upset and then warn a mod. either way it isn't too convincing an example of the neccesity of HTR threads.

Certainl no user posted in the thread complaining about the spoiler, which seems almost a given when one has been spoiled.

 

Our reasons for a HTR policy were stated in that thread and the policy itself hasn't even been in effect for more than a month now.

Actually, it has. The Comms thread about all this was started on May 16, so it has been over a month. But it's fascinating to see that after a month rather than rediscussing, the mods instead are falling back on "there's not enough examples to make the case for re-examining the issue."

But here's the thing. There will never be enough cases because there just aren't that many TV shows or movies that lend themselves to spoilers.

By making these threads HTR, we can have one thread that accomodates to both groups which in turn more effectively serves the forum.

But all you served to do was annoy one group and drive them away from the forum. How exactly does that effectively serve the forum?

At this point, there have been no major complaints over the HTR policy other than with the Survivor thread(s).

There were zero major complaints over having a No Spoiler Survivor thread.

It has been a little over month since we put it into effect, relax and let things work themselves out. The policy will be reviewed within the future, most likely before the end of the summer and the truth will come out on how effective it is.

The thread that was the driving force behind an HTR policy died and the No Spoiler thread has moved to an entirely different forum. That doesn't say much for this policy.

It's just a matter of having patience and trying new things which may better serve the community in the long run.

How does this better serve the community when it's immediate impact was to negatively affect the community? Despite what Dagsy says, the Survivor thread is entirely relevant to this discussion, despite having moved to a different forum.

One thread does not a trend decide. It doesn't provide a pattern.

Given how few HTR threads there are, you'll never have enough to determine a pattern. However, there were several years worth of No Spoiler threads which provided a nice healthy trend prior to this HTR policy and there were never any problems.

As said before, we would evaluate the policy in a few months (plural, not singular).

Technically you said "a few weeks/months" and Carmen specifically said she was going to be starting this thread to re-examine the policy after a month.

Thank you for validating and confirming my point that the HTR hasn't been given a fair shake in the JCC.

How does that validate your point? If anything, it validates the point that people don't want HTR threads, because when given the option, they demonstratively chose No Spoilers.

As Dagsy said before, the Survivor thread cannot be used as an example since it was never given a chance to work.

How was it not given a chance?! Everyone who wants to post in a Survivor thread had the option of using the JCC HTR thread or the Amphitheatre No Spoiler thread. One is dead, the other is not. The masses have made their choice. This, more than anything, points to what Average Joe JCer wants. But instead, you guys are acting like it doesn't count for some bizarre reason.

Mods are supposed to make decisions that benefit the community. There's absolutely no case that HTR threads are somehow more beneficial to the community than the potential for both a Spoiler and Non-Spoiler thread. Two Survivor (or any other TV show/movie) threads are not going to harm the community. Zero Survivor threads in the JCC is, at the very least, not going to benefit the community, and at worst has driven some members from the JCC. And that's the result so far of this HTR policy. How is this better?

Amazing.

 

/applauds.



Amazing, Amazing.

 

I'm not quite sure how having the survivor thread in the Amphitheater affects the HTR thread in YJCC. Everyone who posts in the Amph thread has made it clear that they wouldn't use an HTR thread - both by posting it in various threads, and by ignoring the HTR thread in YJCC. If they wanted to use an HTR thread, they would have.

 

Speaking of ignoring threads, I think that the JCC mods hope that ignoring this will make it go away.

 

Speaking of ignoring threads, I think that the JCC mods hope that ignoring this will make it go away.


What more is there to say? Dagsy and I all explained our reasoning on why we voted in favor of the HTR policy and why we feel it will be beneficial to the forum. Katya was against the HTR policy and expressed her views on why she didn't think the policy would work for the forum. I am sorry that our answers are not satisfactory to you, but we've said what we've said. I don't know what else can be said. The policy will be reviewed in the MS in coming months, so relax and enjoy the forum.


Edit: Had to clarify some points.

 

Dashy, your collective explanations were woefully inadequate and illogical (Kate has been the only one who's made consistent sense).

The policy was based on a non-existent need and serves a community that has largely taken their posting elsewhere.

The policy will be reviewed in the MS in coming months, so relax and enjoy the forum

The people this policy concerns most are enjoying the Amphitheatre, rather than the JCC, since that's where the most sensible and logical thread is located.

Given that there's hardly anyone beyond the Survivor community this policy directly affects, it's pretty much a non-issue to everyone else.