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[JCC] Once again... (Mod coverage in the JCC)

Discussion in 'Communications' started by DVader316, Aug 19, 2004.

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  1. FamousAmos

    FamousAmos VIP star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 9, 2003
    It's not just about the number of moderators, though. If there were three moderators who had the equivalent of malkie's online time, there would be no need for anything more than that.

    In short, you need online time as much as you need additional moderators.

    That's true as well :)

    There are at least 3 to 4 other spam forums on the mainpage, all of which at some point blatently violate a TOS, and one in which a JCC mod POSTED in. but no lock/ban/pyoonishment.


    Another problem is that even if there is a mod online, they can't be in every thread at once(there are 50 on the front page). It's general policy that if you see something going on that violates the TOS, PM a mod(Dashy is online now ;)) and they'll check it out.
     
  2. KnightWriter

    KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2001
    Ideally, you want to add a moderator who's both high-caliber as a member and has a considerable amount of online time.

    Adding someone who closely fits one but has trouble with the other is likely to cause trouble (down the road, if not immediately).
     
  3. Kartanym

    Kartanym Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    May 23, 2002
    True, but I'm sure there are plenty of users here that have both to offer, knight. It's just a question of whether the JC staff are willing to give them the opportunity.
     
  4. KnightWriter

    KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2001
    True, but I'm sure there are plenty of users here that have both to offer, knight. It's just a question of whether the JC staff are willing to give them the opportunity.

    In my experience, it varies with each forum. I see the JCC has having just a handful of truly qualified people.

    There are certainly a significant number of good posters, but that shouldn't be considered equivalent with being a potential moderator.
     
  5. Kartanym

    Kartanym Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    May 23, 2002
    Of course, it isn't about the amount of posts they may make within the JCC. It's what they do elsewhere, the experience they may have either working online or in the real world. Most important of all, it's the level of understanding they have for other posters, young and old. That's what makes a good moderator, someone who can balance the time to help others as well as developing a respected and healthy forum.
     
  6. KnightWriter

    KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2001
    Of course, it isn't about the amount of posts they may make within the JCC.

    But it is, and it must be. A forum moderator should know the community they post in and the community in turn should know them. Of course, raw number of posts isn't the end of the story (or all of it). Quality posts are better than dozens of spam posts, but there's got to be a good amount of posts nonetheless. A moderator should never be outposted by the majority of regulars in their forum.

    t's what they do elsewhere, the experience they may have either working online or in the real world.

    That certainly helps, though it's hard to verify. Work and experience throughout the JC is more tangible.

    d. That's what makes a good moderator, someone who can balance the time to help others as well as developing a respected and healthy forum.

    I think those things are part of what makes a good moderator :).

     
  7. Jedi Greg Maddux

    Jedi Greg Maddux Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 3, 1999
    KW pretty much hit the nail on the head. YJCC is a whole different animal compared to the rest of the JC. It's sort of a microcosm of the JC, minus the Star Wars discussion, of course. You have dozens of social groups and threads, many of which have hundreds, if not thousands, of replies. And many of these members spend a huge chunk of thier JC (if not online) time in their social group, paying little heed to anything else that goes on. That of course leads to a myriad of posts, but lacking the overall leadership qualities needed to be a moderator. Because that's what YJCC has pretty much evolved into, it's far more difficult than the average Joe thinks to select a moderator.

     
  8. malkieD2

    malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 7, 2002
    Thanks for the positive comments KW :)

    The JCC is complex beast causing all sorts of problems for moderators. Its obviously easy to edit out swearing and clear flames, but where do you draw the line of whats appropriate, and what isn't ?

    I can be counted on to be around all day Mon-Fri (all day being 2am to 10am board time) and I'm only a PM away. As mentioned above I cover the night shift alone, but to be honest it is pretty quiet and easy to moderate (most of the time).

    I think an Aussie or Kiwi mod would be a good idea. It pretty much assures coverage.

    Not really. You can't expect anyone to sit at their PC all the time just incase a moderating issue comes up. I'm lucky in that I have to use a PC at work, meaning I can check the forum every 10 mins or so incase anything has come up.

    There are 45 or so moderators working here, so there's a good chance that at least a few of them are online at any given moment.

    If troll attacks were being missed on a daily basis I'd say there was a problem, but that just isn't happening (to the best of my knowledge). Personally I think that too many cooks would spoil the broth, especially as far as moderator-consistency goes. Besides we could have 10 dedicated JCC mods and there could still be times where there was no-one online.

     
  9. zacparis

    zacparis VIP star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 1, 2003
    So why did the YJCC go from 5 mods to 4 mods when Dagsy stepped down? Having five mods seemed to work OK, at least from what I saw.
     
  10. malkieD2

    malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 7, 2002
    I think it was supposed to have 4 mods. I was brought in as a replacement for Dagsy - we always knew he was leaving. He stuck around long enough to teach me the ropes and help me use the mod functions properly.
     
  11. zacparis

    zacparis VIP star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 1, 2003
    I see...

    It would be nice to have another mod from Down Under. When I was there I used to see all sorts of anarchy, simply because there weren't any mods about. (usually from 11pm - 2am board time)

    But of course, that was then. It might have improved in the last month or two.
     
  12. OBI-BEN-KENOBI

    OBI-BEN-KENOBI Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 13, 2004
    I agree with zacparis

    Last night, there were no mods on at all for a long time. Since Dashy locked a very inappropriate anti comet 1440 thread last night, there was no Mod on after that until Malkie logged in.
     
  13. malkieD2

    malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 7, 2002
    I might have improved in the last month or two.

    Typo ? Or were you the source of the anarchy ?

    The 10pm to 2am slot has been mentioned before, and would certainly be looked at if it became a serious problem. At the moment we don't have a single aussie mod in the ranks, which is unusual given that at any point in JC history there were always serveral aussie mods. Some of the greats (IMO) were aussies.

    Interestingly I'll be away for most of September leaving a huge gap in moderation, but there are other UK / European mods that can pop in during my absence.

    I'm happy to accept suggestions from any regular users if they feel they can think of a good mod candidate. I'm not sure that this is the correct protocol, however I'm happy to listen to any ideas people might have. We're currently not looking for another mod, but it is always good to know who the regular users feel would make a good mod.
     
  14. zacparis

    zacparis VIP star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 1, 2003
    Typo ? Or were you the source of the anarchy ?

    Fixed. :p
     
  15. DVader316

    DVader316 Jedi Knight star 7

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2000
    Thanks to all of the mods and ex-mods who replied here. Your input is appreciated. Oh, and to Dashy : Another reason why I didnt PM you or Katya (who was on at the time) was that in the past, normally when I PM a mod about something like that they dont get back to me for some time (for whatever reason, the PMs are read but not replied to right away), and by the time they do my question/comment is usually irrelvant. I figured posting a thread here in Comms. would get a quicker response, and obviously I was correct.

    Anyway, in a perfect world there would be mods on at all times in all forums, but of course we know that isnt going to happen. But just the fact that malkie is open to suggestions is definitely a good thing, and hopefully something can be established to put a stop to such obviously unfunny spam that's slowly but surely taking over the JCC like a disease.
     
  16. zacparis

    zacparis VIP star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 1, 2003
    normally when I PM a mod about something like that they dont get back to me for some time (for whatever reason, the PMs are read but not replied to right away), and by the time they do my question/comment is usually irrelvant.

    I've had similar experiences. In the past I've attempted to report troll/spam attacks to non-JCC mods, only to find they disappear as soon as I've sent the PM. Other times they don't reply for ages, and other times they PM me back saying they don't understand the problem.

    It can be quite frustrating.
     
  17. malkieD2

    malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 7, 2002
    zacparis - You have to understand that non-JCC mods often won't understand a problem thats started in the JCC because of the unique rules we have in there. (Just as 3SA, the Senate, FanFic etc have their own forum-specific rules).

    Obviously they can remove obvious spamming, or swearing or flames, but redundant threads, inappropriate threads or baiting in social threads is much more of a grey area which really would need the attention of a JCC Mod.

    The other point that was mentioned was what happens when you PM a mod. From personal experience if something obvious happens (a troll starts a thread full of swearing for example) - I tend to receive 5 or 6 PMs saying the same thing. My first priority is to edit and lock the thread, followed by banning the user. This does take a few minutes to do, especially if there are multiple edits and bans to deal with. I usually check the usernotes of the user to determine ban length, which I have to include when clicking the ban button (so that the admin-log has a record of how long the user is supposed to be banned, and the reason for the ban).

    After that I need to check incase the banned user has tried to log in and post with any of their sock accounts. This does happen sometimes, and leads to a second level of edits / bans and often leads to an IP ban. (which we can't always do without banning everyone on AOL).

    Then I return to the JCC to see if there has been any follow up to the remarks originally posted - has someone responded to baits or flames ? Often another collection of edits / bans are required at this stage.

    So, about 10/15 minutes have elapsed, and I tried to get back to the original PMs from users pointing to the problem and reply to them all. However, I'm pretty sure I forget to reply to all of the users who PM'd me - especially if I've dealt with the problem and things are fixed.

    I hope that short insight into moderating helps you understand why a Mod might not instantly reply to your PM. :)
     
  18. DVader316

    DVader316 Jedi Knight star 7

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2000
    It definitely clears some things up for me. Thanks, malkie.
     
  19. Dingo

    Dingo Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 23, 2001
    Regarding:

    Interesting, yet you felt like creating a thread in Comms?

    and

    Obviously they can remove obvious spamming, or swearing or flames, but redundant threads, inappropriate threads or baiting in social threads is much more of a grey area which really would need the attention of a JCC Mod.

    Why is it frowned upon to create a thread here in Comms regarding trolls posting - in any forum - multiple threads that are obviously trolling when a moderator cannot be found immediately? One could sit there and keep trying to find a mod on the Users Online list then PM each one they find until the problem is taken care of. But isn't doing the same thing that DV did also effect since a majority of mods will check Comms fairly soon after logging in (although a more obvious title would have been better)?

    Obviously for something that isn't a major immediate concern can just be PMed to a forum mod, but for the troll spamming that every once in a blue moon happens when there isn't anyone online, what does a single Comms thread that can be seen, then locked after dealt with hurt?




    Oh, and this is the first time since stinrab was promoted back in 1999 that there hasn't been an Aussie JC mod (although there still is a single Aussie GSA).
     
  20. malkieD2

    malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 7, 2002
    My comment which you copy and pasted wasn't in reference to the most recent troll event, but was more of a general comment about why some non-JCC Mods might not understand some of the problems that occur in the JCC, and hence say "I don't understand the problem" when PM'd be a JCC user.

    I didn't see this particular troll event, but I'm pretty sure it would have been one that was obvious and could have been dealt with by any forum Mod.
     
  21. Dingo

    Dingo Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 23, 2001
    Sorry malkie, I wasn't clear with what I was saying. As stated above, I actually agree with what you said, and in taking what you said as the standard that I have been under the assumption of, then why is it a problem for someone to make a single thread in Comms rather than PMing what can be up to 10 mods depending on the circumstances in such a simple and singular situation?
     
  22. comet1440

    comet1440 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2004
    I'm happy to accept suggestions from any regular users if they feel they can think of a good mod candidate

    I know I have only been here since january , am 14 years of age , and often talk about wanting to be a moderator , but I would seriously make a great one .
     
  23. malkieD2

    malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 7, 2002
    I personally don't have a problem with someone starting a thread in Comms if they see an incident.

    However I think the first thing to do it check if a forum moderator is online by using the links on the header. If there is no-one online, or you PM a forum mod and they haven't read the PM within a short time frame then I personally think its ok to start a comms thread to get a passing mod to deal with the situation.

    Certainly if I was online, and someone posted a thread in Comms saying there is a problem in FanFic I'd react, because I don't normally visit that forum.

    comet1440 - your interest in moderating the JC has been expressed by yourself previously. My advice to you would be to try your best to contribute positively to the forums you like to post in, and remember to try and have fun at all times.

    To clarify, I think its best to suggest other users you think might make a good mod candidate.
     
  24. Kimball_Kinnison

    Kimball_Kinnison Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2001
    I know I have only been here since january , am 14 years of age , and often talk about wanting to be a moderator , but I would seriously make a great one .

    Campaigning to be a mod is one of the quickest ways to be crossed off of the list. The best way to become a mod is to develop a long history of good behavior that shows rational thinking and understanding of the rules.

    Kimball Kinnison
     
  25. Dingo

    Dingo Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 23, 2001
    I know I have only been here since january , am 14 years of age , and often talk about wanting to be a moderator , but I would seriously make a great one .

    Age has no bearing, experience does but that isn't purely defined by time spent here. The majority of your postings here in Comms belie a complete lack of knowledge or experience with the operations of these forums. And those who beg at every opportunity to be made a moderator are always those that make the worst choice for the position.
     
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