[JCC]Why can't there be 2 Survivor threads?

Discussion in 'Communications' started by wild_karrde, May 12, 2004.

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  1. wild_karrde Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 1999
    star 7
    Since Survivor first started in the summer of 2000 it has been a popular subject on the JC (and has grown in popularity every year). Starting with Season 2 I have posted the official discussion thread for each season (except Thailand when someon else beat me to it). For all 7 of those seasons, the threads were 100% non-spoiler. (Season 3 had a spoiler warning in the title, but it was for west-coasters who got the show 3 hrs later). A few days ago I started the thread for Season 9 and put my usual No Spoilers in the title and laid out the ground rules in the first post, the same rules that I have put in my other threads. Noone said anything about it. but then a few posters started putting minor spoilers in the thread. I PMed a mod (Dagsy) who edited out the spoilers and gave the posters a warning.

    This morning, however, I logged on to see that he had edited my first post to now allow spoilers in the thread. I found this to be unfair and protested on the grounds that my threads were always spoiler free and that if someone wanted a spoiler thread they were always free to create one. Dagsy would not listen however and would not put my thread back the way it was. In the end I asked him to lock it because it was no longer the thread I created.

    My question is, why can we not have 2 threads about Survivor, one spoiler and one non-spoiler? If we can have multiple threads about LotR, the Matrix, and even poop then why not Survivor? My latest thread currently has well over 1000 posts and is still growing. The majority of Survivor fans on the JC want to be able to discuss it without risk of being spoiled, but we are being robbed of that now. Why?
  2. carmenite42 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 21, 2003
    star 4
    In addition to the specifics of the Survivor contreversy, I think there is the larger question is why can't the author of threads themselves determine whether or not a thread is spoilers or not. At what point does the user stop being able to determine the purpose of their thread, and that call gets to be made by the mods?
  3. jacemathem Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2003
    star 5
    I think Dagsy said it best when he did.
    Just to let everyone know, the JCC mods have discussed the 'No spoiler' nature of this thread, and have unanimously decided that spoilers will be allowed in a highlight-to-read deal from now on.

    This decision was made because people apparently want a place to discuss Survivor 9, including spoilers. The possibilities therefore are:
    1) Make this a complete 'anything goes' thread
    2) Allow 2 threads on the show
    3) Highlight-to-read.

    Given that other threads operate just fine on the highlight-to-read principle, and we dont want to start encouraging redundant threads, we all felt that option 3 would be best. Dont forget, this is a SW messageboard, not a Survivor board, so there really isnt a need to cater to multiple groups of Survivor fans.
  4. DVader316 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2000
    star 7
    That's my point exactly, carmenite42. What I dont understand about all of this was that only a day or two before Dagsy edited all of the posts at the author's request because highlighted spoilers had been posted in what was obviously a spoiler free thread, yet now he turns around and decides to make it a spoilers allowed thread ? I was always under the impression that stuff like that was done at the author's request, not simply on the whim of a mod.

    His explanation is all well and good, but why didnt they tell Derek this as soon as he started the thread rather than after had almost 50+ posts ? Like w_k said, this is the ninth Survivor thread he's started and something like this has never been a problem before now. Also, how would two threads be catering to multiple groups of fans ? I saw pretty much the same people in that thread all of the time (btw, not one of them wanted spoilers in any form, IIRC).
  5. wild_karrde Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 1999
    star 7
    Given that other threads operate just fine on the highlight-to-read principle, and we dont want to start encouraging redundant threads, we all felt that option 3 would be best.

    1) The other threads were NEVER highlight-to-read
    2) Is the PSA redundant because there is already the non-spoiler forum? Why not just make them have E3 spoilers highlight-to-read?


    And as was asked earlier, since when does the author of a thread not have control over if the thread is spoiler free or not? When did this rule start?
  6. Mitt Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 1999
    star 6
    Yes, why did a mod change it in the first place? The last Survivor thread was made long before the show started, and when the time came a mod kindly edited it to include in the title no spoilers allowed. At the time one user was upset about it and was told he was perfectly welcome to make a spoilers allowed thread. (Which user did not do) So why the change now?
  7. carmenite42 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 21, 2003
    star 4
    so there really isnt a need to cater to multiple groups of Survivor fans.

    Well, the problem is that by doing this, they're trying to multiple groups of Survivor fans. They're trying to make both the non-spoiler and the spoiler-folk happy.

    And, not to beat a dead horse, but this isn't a LOTR forum but we have had muiltiple LOTR threads in the past.

    It also ignores the fact that they're changing the original intent of the thread, and going against the author's wishes.

    The best thing to do, in my opinion, is to allow a spoiler and a spoiler-free thread to exist. If that's too much for the community, then one of them will die, because it's not being used. And if it's something that the community needs, they'll both thrive.

    Let the community decide whether or not we need both threads by seeing if they both are used or not. Don't take away the option before we have the chance.
  8. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9
    1) The other threads were NEVER highlight-to-read
    2) Is the PSA redundant because there is already the non-spoiler forum? Why not just make them have E3 spoilers highlight-to-read?


    1) Times change. We could flame users in Comms as Mods in the old days as well, and certainly no one's advocating we revert to those days (nor would I!)...
    2) As Dagsy said "Dont forget, this is a SW messageboard, not a Survivor board, so there really isnt a need to cater to multiple groups of Survivor fans." -- so we do, in fact, cater to SW fans.
  9. wild_karrde Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 1999
    star 7
    The best thing to do, in my opinion, is to allow a spoiler and a spoiler-free thread to exist. If that's too much for the community, then one of them will die, because it's not being used. And if it's something that the community needs, they'll both thrive.

    Let the community decide whether or not we need both threads by seeing if they both are used or not. Don't take away the option before we have the chance.


    Excellent points. In the past when someone made a spoiler thread, it sank within a week because noone wanted to be spoiled. I think the fact that my current non-spoiler thread for Season 8 has 1200+ posts as of right now proves that quite a few people here want to discuss Survivor without being spoiled.

    "Dont forget, this is a SW messageboard, not a Survivor board, so there really isnt a need to cater to multiple groups of Survivor fans."

    Two threads dude. TWO. Is that asking too much? A mere two threads? The spoiler one will die off in a week or two anyway, it always does.
  10. DVader316 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2000
    star 7
    I seriously doubt that suddenly dozens of Survivor fans are going to come out of the woodwork demanding a spoilers allowed thread.



    Hey, Derek, maybe next time you should start a Survivor thread but call it 'Things You Didnt Know About AmazingB # 7,388'. Multiple versions of that thread show up all of the time, sometimes more than once on a daily basis, too.

    If the mods turn a blind eye to obvious spam like that then maybe youve got a shot if you use the same title for any future Survivor threads you start.
  11. wild_karrde Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 1999
    star 7
    I could just call it "poop". Those threads are allowed.
  12. I-Am-Male Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 13, 2003
    I was always under the impression that stuff like that was done at the author's request, not simply on the whim of a mod.

    To my understanding, it wasn't done at Dagsy's whim, but he discussed the options with the other mods after a couple users complained that they wanted to discuss spoilers.



    but why didnt they tell Derek this as soon as he started the thread rather than after had almost 50+ posts?

    It didn't happen at the moment the thread was created.



    1) The other threads were NEVER highlight-to-read

    Note: He never said "the other Survivor threads", he said "other threads" in general.



    Also, don't go on some high-and-mighty crusade because you feel your rights have been violated. Your rights are stated and defended in the Terms of Service and that's it. These are the mods and they command your respect of themselves and their decisions. I believe you would to if you were so.
  13. wild_karrde Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 1999
    star 7
    These are the mods and they command your respect of themselves and their decisions.

    Oh. My. God.
    I have no words in reply to that.

  14. DVader316 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2000
    star 7
    Me neither. I dont know whether to laugh or to cry. Pretty sure Ill end up choosing the former, though.
  15. carmenite42 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 21, 2003
    star 4
    These are the mods and they command your respect of themselves and their decisions

    As a former mod, I can tell you that any mod who doesn't accept the fact that they'll be questioned isn't going to last very long or be particularly popular. Mods make mistakes or bad judgement calls, and heaven knows they get called out on it. I locked a couple of threads myself, and unlocked them after I realized I'd made a mistake.

    Like w_k said, people have tried spoiler threads before - they didn't last. The overwhelming trend as far as Survivor is concerned used to be spoiler-free. If that has changed, fine. But I still haven't seen a reason why there can't be two threads to determine whether that has changed or not.

    ETA:
    Mods shouldn't be COMMANDING respect, they should be EARNING it. And I'm friends with Darth_Dagsy, and I'd hope that he doesn't take my questioning one of his decisions as a dealbreaker as far as our friendship is concerned. I think that, overall, he's a good mod, and the fact that I disagree with him on this decision doesn't change that. Even he makes mistakes. Though, if he'd made the mistake a month and a half ago, he would have woken up one morning with his hand in warm water.

    Well, not really.

    Well, probably not.

    Hmmm... I'll have to think about that one.
  16. Katya Jade Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2002
    star 7
    Okay, I'm going to do a "mea culpa" here. I didn't really have a background in the Survivor threads so I made my decision based on the other threads in the forum where we highlight spoilers. I can certainly understand the concerns here and I've asked that we revisit the issue in the MS.
  17. wild_karrde Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 1999
    star 7
    Thank you. I just want to be able to talk about one of my favorite shows without being spoiled.
  18. DVader316 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2000
    star 7
    Yes, thank you, Katya. Im glad that someone is willing to revisit this rather than sit back and do nothing.
  19. carmenite42 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 21, 2003
    star 4
    lub u kate. it's good to know that y'all are listening.
  20. Dingo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2001
    star 5
    These are the mods and they command your respect of themselves and their decisions

    Just adding on to Carmen's comments regarding this. Never in the entire time I was a part of the MS team did I demand, or even ask for respect from anyone. It isn't a position that demands anything apart from the free time of the person in question. None of us are infallible.



    As to the specific issue at hand, I have encountered problems in the past with highlight-to-read spoiler threads because someone is bound to forget to do it, stuff up the mark-up code, or think that because they have been discussing something for long enough that it's no longer a spoiler, and thus can be freely mentioned.

    While this would fall into the category of "subjective moderating" (and don't get me started on why that isn't as bad a thing as everyone thinks) I can't see the problem in allowing dual threads for some movies/series/project/etc. Having sat on both sides of the spoiler fence at times, I know how hard it is to both avoid accidental spoilage, and also not saying something at an incorrect moment. For something that has a big enough following, I personally don't see the harm in catering to both 'factions' of fans.
  21. DVader316 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2000
    star 7
    Thing is, though, I dont think there really is a Survivor 'spoilers allowed' faction. If there was Im sure that they would have surfaced long ago. That's why none of this makes any sense, at least not to me.
  22. wild_karrde Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 1999
    star 7
    Yeah, like I've been saying, every season one or two people say they want to talk about spoilers. We say "sure, but you have to start your own thread". They either don't bother, or start one. If they start one, it always sinks in a week because only a couple of people want to post in it while dozens others want to post in the non-spoiler thread. Forcing all those dozens to risk being spoiled because a few people want to talk about it is completly unfair.
  23. -_-_-_-_-_- Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2002
    star 6
    I was unaware of the fact that it had been this way for the past four years, and it should remain so because of that. If it isn't broke, don't fix it as they say.
  24. Raven Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 5, 1998
    star 6
    I demand respect from my goldfish, Jaws. The day he stops cowering with terror whenever I enter the room is the day he goes to join his brethren in the harbour. From everyone else, I just greatly prefer politeness.

    In any case, I think that it?s very likely that things will be returning to what they were, with perhaps the addition of a spoiled version of the thread running in parallel.
  25. DVader316 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2000
    star 7
    I guess two separate threads is an acceptable compromise. Besides, like Derek said, Im pretty sure a spoilers allowed thread would sink into the depths fairly quickly, anyway.
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