main
side
curve
  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

[JCC]Why can't there be 2 Survivor threads?

Discussion in 'Communications' started by wild_karrde, May 12, 2004.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. wild_karrde

    wild_karrde Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Oct 8, 1999
    I've never had a problem with there being a spoilers thread. I keep telling people to make one. All I want is a non-spoiler thread for myself and those others that don't want to be spoiled.
     
  2. carmenite42

    carmenite42 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 21, 2003
    The thing is, 'unnecessary' threads don't last long in the JC. The generally sink quickly to the bottom, and unless there's a bunch of them created at once, they can hardly be said to clutter up the JC.

    If a thread is getting ample responses, it is, by definition, necessary. Or, at least, just as necessary as any other thread in the forum. Which is still quesitonable, but yeah.
     
  3. Mitt

    Mitt Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 1999
    I shouldn't be bothered at all that two mods so far have admitted that they didn't know anything about the Survivor threads, did no checking on their own, before voting in this issue?
     
  4. carmenite42

    carmenite42 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 21, 2003
    The mods went by a general standard, not realizing that the Survivor threads are different than most of the other tv show/movie threads. And since there is no current mod who is a regular in the Survivor threads, there was no one to say differently.

    If you look at some of the older threads, there's one season (Africa, I think) where there was a stink raised because it said "spoilers" in the title, but it was talking about the fact that you could start talking about an episode after it aired on the east coast, so there would be spoilers for west-coasters. However, future-episode spoilers weren't allowed. But if a mod went through and looked at the titles of the older threads, they might get the impression that it has fluxuated from season to season, depending on the demand at the time.

    They've admitted they made a mistake, and they're re-examining the issue in the MS. Giving them a hard time because they made a bad call just makes them more reluctant to admit to it next time, so I say we should give them a break.
     
  5. Katya Jade

    Katya Jade Administrator Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 19, 2002
    I shouldn't be bothered at all that two mods so far have admitted that they didn't know anything about the Survivor threads, did no checking on their own, before voting in this issue?

    I already admitted I didn't know about the Survivor threads and based my information on the current JCC practice. I would expect you to be more bothered if I came in here and said that I didn't know about the Survivor thread history and still wouldn't change my "vote." I'm very willing to admit that I make mistakes - as does everyone else.
     
  6. Tobey-Wan

    Tobey-Wan Jedi Master star 9

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2001
    We don't need two Survivor threads. Highlight to read is how it's always been done in the Survivor threads. I've seen posted and posted myself spoilers in those threads and always made them so one had to highlight to read. No one has ever complained about it up until this season.

    The reason that two threads doesn't work is because spoiler talk is constant. Spoiler come up every so often and are discussed. Talking about the show happens consitently and if you only post in spoilers thread then you miss out on the other converstaion.

    And quit blaming Dagsy on this. This was a decision made by the ModSquad, not by a single person acting on a whim.
     
  7. Kimball_Kinnison

    Kimball_Kinnison Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2001
    I only have a few moments to sound off on this, but let me ask one overriding question to eveeryone:

    What's the big deal?

    We have two different spoiler policies here. One is for SW material and the other is for everything else. The rule has long been to do the "highlight to read" for other movies/shows/books. Why not Survivor? Why is it a special case (and just because it's always been done like that is not a reason by itself).

    w_k said that he doesn't want to be spoiled, but if that is the case, then you don't have to highlight the spoilers. No one forces you to highlight them.

    I shouldn't be bothered at all that two mods so far have admitted that they didn't know anything about the Survivor threads, did no checking on their own, before voting in this issue?

    What is the point of having a non-SW spoiler policy if we then treat everything as a special case? There have been several users complaining about inconsistent moderation, especially in the JCC. Applying the same spoiler rule to all threads makes the moderating more consistent.

    Or should we have to consider every movie, book, and TV show individually and develop a spoiler policy for each one? This is a SW message board, first and foremost. For SW, that might be reasonable, but for other topics, that's a bit excessive.

    Kimball Kinnison
     
  8. wild_karrde

    wild_karrde Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Oct 8, 1999
    Highlight to read is how it's always been done in the Survivor threads.

    Argh! No it hasn't! How many times do I have to say it - those threads were all non-spoiler. If anyone posted a spoiler of any kind, highlighted or otherwise, they were always warned not to do it again. I should know, cause I did the warning.
     
  9. carmenite42

    carmenite42 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 21, 2003
    If there have been HTR spoilers posted, they're generally asked not to be posted again. The center of conversation in the past threads has NEVER been spoiler-centered - it's been centered on what we know from the show. threads with spoilers allowed tend to be more spoiler-centered.
     
  10. wild_karrde

    wild_karrde Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Oct 8, 1999
    What's the big deal?

    I made a non-spoiler thread so that I and others could discuss the show without fear of being spoiled. That thread was edited (without anyone asking me) to include spoilers because a couple of people wanted to discuss them and I was told not to create a non-spoiler thread because it would be redundant.

    The rule has long been to do the "highlight to read" for other movies/shows/books. Why not Survivor? Why is it a special case (and just because it's always been done like that is not a reason by itself).

    I for one have never heard that rule before, and I have seen many threads that were spoiler/non-spoiler and not highlight-to-read. And I think that history is very important. For 7 seasons having the thread be non-spoiler was perfectly acceptable. Why not now?

    w_k said that he doesn't want to be spoiled, but if that is the case, then you don't have to highlight the spoilers. No one forces you to highlight them.

    So try merging the two E3 forums, but make them "highlight-to-read". How long before someone starts posting spoilers without highlighting them? One thing you have to remember here is that some people are jerks and will post spoilers regardless of how others feel.

    What is the point of having a non-SW spoiler policy if we then treat everything as a special case? ... Or should we have to consider every movie, book, and TV show individually and develop a spoiler policy for each one? This is a SW message board, first and foremost. For SW, that might be reasonable, but for other topics, that's a bit excessive.

    The JCC is for everything not-SW. And I don't think it's too much to ask for each thread to be judged on it's own.
     
  11. carmenite42

    carmenite42 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 21, 2003
    What's the big deal?

    the big deal is that, when spoilers are being discussed about an ongoing show, the conversation centers around the spoilers and how they fit into the show, rather than the current content itself.

    There are people who DON'T want to discuss spoilers or how they fit into the show. In most other cases, such as with movies, if I don't want to be spoiled, I don't enter the thread until after I've seen the movie. Because, I know the content of the thread will be spoiler-related.

    So, I'd like to ask back, what's the big deal about having two threads? If they're both needed, they'll both be used. And if they're not both needed, the unused one will die. So, what's the big deal?
     
  12. wild_karrde

    wild_karrde Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Oct 8, 1999
    Yes, I still don't know why we can't have 2 threads. The only answer I got through PM was that it would be redundant. Seeing as they are completely unrelated (one discussing future spoilers, one talking about the current events) I don't see how they would be redundant. If both are popular, that's great! Means more posting on the JC and more discussion. If the spoiler thread dies, that's ok, too. It will show that it wasn't needed and won't take up any space on the front page. Won't hurt anyone here.
     
  13. Tobey-Wan

    Tobey-Wan Jedi Master star 9

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2001
    Okay, I just went back and looked at the Pearl Islands thread. I posted a spoiler there, highlight to read. And the thread went on without a hitch! Someone asked me about the source and if I remember correctly I PM'd them about it. It wasn't a big deal. The people that didn't want to read it, didn't. The poeple that did didn't talk about it openly in the thread.

    So try merging the two E3 forums, but make them "highlight-to-read".

    As much as I like Survivor, it's following doesn't compare to Star Wars. There's a reason there are two forums dedicated to Episode 3 and not one thread.

    Also, I would agree that starting to have exceptions to the rule isn't a good thing for the JCC. Then everyone will want their pet thread to be an exception.

    EDIT: And the current Survivor 9 thread should just be locked. It's nothing but a flame war.
     
  14. wild_karrde

    wild_karrde Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Oct 8, 1999
    One random poster letting one random spoiler slip past is one thing, but if there were a bunch of people posting blacked out spoilers, then the odds of someone posting a spoiler without blanking it out go up. And if one person does it, then another one will. And so on, until noone bothers blanking them out at all.

    Seriously, why not 2 threads? Would that cause such a problem?

    EDIT: And the current Survivor 9 thread should just be locked. It's nothing but a flame war.

    That's not a Survivor thread, that's Ignant starting a parody thread.

    EDIT: And now it's locked. Thanks.
     
  15. Kimball_Kinnison

    Kimball_Kinnison Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2001
    So try merging the two E3 forums, but make them "highlight-to-read". How long before someone starts posting spoilers without highlighting them? One thing you have to remember here is that some people are jerks and will post spoilers regardless of how others feel.

    I seem to recall quite a few former mods recently saying that JCC mods should moderate on the post level, not the thread level. Why does that suddenly change here?

    If a user is posting or discussing spoilers without using the proper markup to hide it, then the moderators should deal with that individual and their posts. There shouldn't have to be a different thread on it, because that would be redundant (in discussing the topic of Survivor).

    Also, like I said, we are first and foremost a SW message board. SW here is the definitive special case. If this were a Survivor message board, your comment there would carry more weight.

    Kimball Kinnison
     
  16. wild_karrde

    wild_karrde Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Oct 8, 1999
    Please, would someone tell me how a spoiler and a non-spoiler thread is redundant!?!? They are discussing 2 different subjects. The spoiler thread is talking about spoilers for upcoming episodes, and the non-spoiler thread is discussing what just happened in the most recent episode. They are not the same!

    EDIT: I have an idea. How about I post a non-spoiler thread and someone else posts a spoiler thread, and we see what happens. $50 says the non-spoiler will sink in a week and never be seen again, meanwhile the non-spoiler will get a ton of posts and be very popular. And if someone says "why can't I talk about spoilers here" we can give him a link to the old thread. I'm willing to bet that the JCC won't implode upon itself, as some people seem to fear :)
     
  17. Katya Jade

    Katya Jade Administrator Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 19, 2002
    I seem to recall quite a few former mods recently saying that JCC mods should moderate on the post level, not the thread level. Why does that suddenly change here?

    KK, the point is not that the "sudden change" is the post level moderating. The "sudden change" is that the Survivor threads have gone on for a long time as spoiler-free with another thread created for spoilers and now we're changing that practice.

    I agree that in general, we can have a movie, tv, book, whatever thread as highlight to read. That's gone on for a long time. However, in this case, the majority of the Survivor watchers don't want spoilers - so create a second thread. In the overall moderation of the JCC, creating this one exception isn't a huge issue.
     
  18. wild_karrde

    wild_karrde Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Oct 8, 1999
    Hell, I'll start both threads and put links to each one in the first post!
     
  19. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001
    $50 says the non-spoiler will sink in a week and never be seen again, meanwhile the non-spoiler will get a ton of posts and be very popular.

    I will accept your wager of $50 that:
    a) The non-spoiler thread will sink and never be seen again, AND
    b) The non-spoiler thread will get a ton of posts and be very popular.

    Since that's an AND clause both must be true and since that's impossible, I will collect your $50.
     
  20. Tobey-Wan

    Tobey-Wan Jedi Master star 9

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2001
    The Survivor threads have not always had two different versions. Spoilers have always been posted in the "no-spoilers" threads as highlight to read, no matter what is said to the contrary. There hasn't been any trouble with this, even though it wasn't "in the title".

    Keeping the conversation all in one place is what would be preferred, not splitting everything up. Having two threads would be redundant and wasteful since they're talking about the same thing.
     
  21. jacemathem

    jacemathem Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 3, 2003
    What fortune you have found, dp4m :p
     
  22. carmenite42

    carmenite42 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 21, 2003
    The bottom line of my point is:

    If there is a demand for both threads, why not have both threads?
     
  23. wild_karrde

    wild_karrde Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Oct 8, 1999
    Oh my god, I made a typo. I should be banned.

    Tobey-Wan - I have no idea where you are getting your info from, but any time I have seen a spoiler in one of my Survivor threads, I always point out that it is non-spoiler and that if you want to post spoilers you can feel free to start your own. I've been doing that since S2. If one or two spoilers got past me, it wasn't because I let them, it was because I didn't see them. Trust me, if I saw them, I'd have called them.
     
  24. Tobey-Wan

    Tobey-Wan Jedi Master star 9

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2001
    And the threads have gone on without a hitch and spoilers weren't suddenly posted in bulk for everyone to see. Thank you for proving my point.

    Having a non-spoilers thread just to make some people happy is not the way to go. Highlight to read in one thread should make everyone happy.
     
  25. wild_karrde

    wild_karrde Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Oct 8, 1999
    Highlight to read in one thread should make everyone happy.

    Judgeing from the replies in this thread, I disagree.

    Oh, and I just went through the threads to find any time when someone posted a spoiler. Here's a handful of replies I found (all replies by me, unless stated otherwise):


    Survivor 3
    - "TripleB - no more spoilers please"
    - "The only reason the SPOILER warning was added (not by me) was because not everyone gets Survivor at the same time. The other spoilers are from episodes that havn't aired yet."

    Survivor 4
    - "And I think the status of spoilers here is, if it was on TV in Noth America, it's OK, but please don't post rumours you read on the net."

    Survivor 5
    - "PLEASE DON'T POST SPOILERS IN THIS THREAD
    You know what happens? Great for you! Don't ruin it for the rest of us please. "
    - "(please, no more spoilers before the show airs)"
    - "Same way the PSA knew how AotC would end before the movie came out - spy reports.
    But please, no more!"

    Survivor 6 ("No Spoilers" in title)
    - "Please, no spoilers for unaired shows."
    - "Hey, wild_karrde, thanks for putting the (no spoilers) in the title.
    Real waste back when someone couldn't keep their mouth shut about John in Thailand.... " - LeeKenobi
    - "Do not talk about this spoiler in this thread!"

    Survivor 7 ("No Spoilers" in title)
    - "Yes, no spoilers until the episode airs on the east coast please "
    - "Yeah, previews are OK to discuss, but nothing that is posted on spoiler sites, please "
    - "I agree no spoilers!" - Mitt

    Survivor 8 ("No Spoilers" in title)
    - "Reminder: NO SPOILERS PLEASE!"
    - "wild_karrde, I'd say you're the official thread starter for Survivor threads, is this going to be the official thread about it once the show starts? If so can we make it spoiler free? " - Mitt
    - "Yeah, might as well stick with this thread as the official one, and it is most definatly SPOILER FREE "
    - "There, now no spoilers in here"
    - "Are we able to have a Survivor SPOILERS ALLOWED thread?!?" - The Gatherer
    - "Gath - I don't care if there's a non-spoiler thread, all I care about is no spoilers in this thread."


    Seems to me like spoilers weren't allowed in those threads before, And any time I asked a mod to put "no spoilers" in the title, I never got any arguements from them.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.