[JCC]Why can't there be 2 Survivor threads?

Discussion in 'Communications' started by wild_karrde, May 12, 2004.

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  1. Mitt Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 1999
    star 6
    Ok, then tell me this why oh why is there a Smallville discussion thread in the JCC and a spoiler allowed Smallville discussion?
    Spoilers: http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=15401653&start=15600298
    Non-Spoilers: http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=8840891

    WHY CAN'T WE HAVE THE SAME THING FOR SURVIVOR?
  2. Wolf Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2002
    star 4
    I'd just like to pipe in here and voice my support for 2 threads.

    I personally will not go to a thread that supports spoilers. What W_K said is true. When you have spoilers, the thread becomes more spoiler driven.

    Survivor is different from other tv shows in respect to spoilers. In survivor one spoiler can mean ruining an entire episode for people. Knowing who gets kicked out means everything and this is often the spoilers that are provided. In other shows a spoiler really does not ruin the entire episode or rarely even some of it.
  3. wild_karrde Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 1999
    star 7
    Just one episode? I was spoiled for the entire season of S8 when I accudentally read who the final two would be before the first episode even aired. I will not risk something like that happening again, and I wouldn't want to force anyone else to risk that.

    Survivor is a very popular subject on the JCC. As I said, the latest season has gotten over 1200 replies (more after tonights episode!). But if you allow spoilers in the thread, I can't see it going over 150 for season 9. Is that what you guys really want? Do you want to discourage people from posting in the JCC? I really hope not.
  4. wild_karrde Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 1999
    star 7
    Following Mitt's lead, here's a list of threads from just the first 10 pages that are clearly either a spoiler or a non-spoiler thread. There are probably more that are one or the other but are not indicated in the title (ie, my wrestling thread is filled with spoilers all the time, but there's nothing in the title about it)

    Spoiler threads:

    SmallVille Season 3 Final Episodes Discussion (Spoilers Allowed)
    Friends Season Finale play-by-play (if you're not watching it on the east, there may be spoilers)

    Non-Spoiler threads:

    Survivor 8 ~All Star Survivor~ {No Spoilers}
    Batman Begins Discussion Thread - No Spoilers
    The >>>Official<<< Smallville Discussion Thread (No Spoilers Allowed)
    The Amazing Race 5 (no spoilers)


  5. wild_karrde Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 1999
    star 7
    Um, any word yet? It'd be nice to know because they just announced the location for S9 and I'd like to start a thread if I can ...
  6. -_-_-_-_-_- Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2002
    star 6
    We held a vote amongst the JCC mods and one, hightlight to read Survivor thread was decided upon.
  7. Leonard_Shelby Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2002
    star 6
  8. -_-_-_-_-_- Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2002
    star 6
    I'd also like to say that we will be enforcing a strict highlight to read policy in this thread. Those who break this rule will receive a strong warning and if it happens again, it'll be a one and done type deal. If a user purposely fails to black out spoiler material, a severe punishment will follow.
  9. MoonTheLoon Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 23, 2001
    star 4
    Well, the nature of all the Survivor threads I've ever known has just taken a change for the worse. I'm afraid that we are all being punished for the actions and desires of just a few. From this horrendous decision I guess we have learned:

    2 threads for Smallville= necessary
    2 threads for Survivor= redundant

    But let me point this out:

    Plot premise of Survivor= Human Chess. Participants compete in exotic but dangerous locales first in group cometition then later individually. Winners of different contests within the Survivor competition receive reward and/or immunity. The remaining contestants are then forced to vote another participant out of the game. Each season the locales change, and there are a different set of challenges and rewards. The entire cast, sans the host, are different season to season.

    Plot premise for Smallville= Superman before he moves to Metropolis. Examines the relationships of a young Clark Kent/Superman, which is a character that has been around in comic media since the 1930's. The character has had at least 4 feature films and at least 3 prime time television series centered around him.

    Which show seems redundant now?

    Survivor threads have always been about watching the show and then talking about what happened and speculating on why contestants are or aren't doing certain things in the game. Yes there are one or two that post HTR spoilers, and we are always quick to point out to that person that we do not want to be spoiled, so please do not post something that can elicit a response that is not formatted in HTR. If we want to be spoiled, we can search the internet and find any number of sites that can give us spoilers. We had (emphasis on past tense) a place in these threads where we could go and enjoy the show as we intended to, just the like the people that post in the spoiler free Smallville thread.

    I do not understand why this has to be changed so that the minority is catered to, when it's the majority that keeps the thread going. It is not too much to ask for 2 threads to exist and let us decide which we want to support and post in. But then again, apparently it was.
  10. HL&S Magistrate Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2001
    star 6
    I'd also like to say that we will be enforcing a strict highlight to read policy in this thread. Those who break this rule will receive a strong warning and if it happens again, it'll be a one and done type deal. If a user purposely fails to black out spoiler material, a severe punishment will follow.

    It only takes one tiny post to ruin an entire season of Survivor. Especially if they post it at the right time on Thursday nights when the show is airing and the fans are posting. We would have read the post before our brains could comprehend it.

    To spoil an entire Star Wars movie, you need one enormous post and our brains would comprehend what we're reading after the first sentence.


    But all they'll have to say after the deed is done is "sorry, I didn't know I had to highlight my post. Please forvive me." [face_plain]
  11. -_-_-_-_-_- Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2002
    star 6
    Like I said, the rule will be enforced strictly and the HTR nature of the thread will be spelled out bluntly in the beginning of the thread.


    As for the Smallville comparisons, if a new Smallville thread was started today then it would be HTR as well. This is how it will be from here on out.


    Edit: Spelling.
  12. MoonTheLoon Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 23, 2001
    star 4
    if a new Smallville thread was started today then it would be HTR as well. This is how it will be from here on out.

    First, wouldn't that be redundant since 2 threads already exist?

    Second, if the future Survivor threads are to be monitored closely for unhighlighted spoilers, would it not make a mod's life easier if there were 2 threads? That way the unspoiled thread could continue to thrive and flourish (as it always has), and the spoiled thread could sink into obscurity (as it always has, when someone has actually taken the time to create it)?
  13. -_-_-_-_-_- Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2002
    star 6
    First, wouldn't that be redundant since 2 threads already exist?

    My statement was in the event that there would be the need for a new thread, which there isn't, thus the HTR rules would now apply to it.


    Second, if the future Survivor threads are to be monitored closely for unhighlighted spoilers, would it not make a mod's life easier if there were 2 threads? That way the unspoiled thread could continue to thrive and flourish (as it always has), and the spoiled thread could sink into obscurity (as it always has, when someone has actually taken the time to create it)?

    In theory, it would make our modding job easier but easier doesn't always necessarily mean better. If the unspoiled thread thrives as you say and the spoiled thread falls to the bottom of the forum, doesn't that eliminate the necessity for two threads and confirm the need for only a single thread?
  14. carmenite42 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 21, 2003
    star 4
    I'm just asking theoretically, without w_k's permission or input since it's his thread, but would it be possible for the title of the Survivor 8 thread to be changed to the Survivor thread, thus keeping it spoiler free? If the pre-existing Smallville thread is allowed to stay spoiler free, it would seem that pre-existing Survivor threads would be allowed to stay spoiler free...
  15. MoonTheLoon Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 23, 2001
    star 4
    The reason the spoiler threads fail is because those of us that do not want to be spoiled outnumber those who do. Without an "audience" in their thread to reveal their spoilers to, they're reduced to posting about knowing the exact order that everyone is voted off in, and who the final 2 are before the first show even airs.

    They feed on spoiling us. If a thread already exists, or can be created, to cater to spoiled fans of survivor (of which there are not many, like I said, they only do it to get a kick out of spoiling us), then when we don't get the spoiler posts in our thread. If we do, that means someone went into a spoiler free thread and knowingly posted a spoiler. This is the way it has been in the past, and we would like to keep it that way because it is a black & white issue.

    When you take that away, and open the door for HTR spoilers with the promise of intense moderation, you're opening up a much larger gray area than ever existed before. Where it used to be a spoiler in a non-spoiler thread, it now becomes a judgement call. Several of us have decided if this is the case, we'll not post in a thread with those parameters.

    Instead of having a thread that is active and a thread that (or the possibility of a thread) that is not, there will be one all encompassing thread that is not half as active as its predecessors. I don't see how this is supposed to be a good thing.

    All we're asking for is a greater chance to not be spoiled. Because of the nature of the show Survivor, it doesnt take much to spoil it. This is why there has always been such a premium placed on keeping the threads spoiler free.
  16. wild_karrde Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 1999
    star 7
    I'm just asking theoretically, without w_k's permission or input since it's his thread, but would it be possible for the title of the Survivor 8 thread to be changed to the Survivor thread, thus keeping it spoiler free? If the pre-existing Smallville thread is allowed to stay spoiler free, it would seem that pre-existing Survivor threads would be allowed to stay spoiler free...

    I'd be in favour of that, considering the decision you came to is complete bull $#!+.

    In fact, yes, from now on you can all feel free to consider the existing S8 thread as the unofficial Survivor thread that has no spoilers. Seeing as how it has been around for 6 months without any problems, I can't see any reason why the mods would change it. If someone wants to start a HTR thread for S9, they can go for it but I will continue discussing S9 in the existing S8 thread. If I can find a mod nice enough to edit the title to remoce the "All Stars" from it, that would be great.

    EDIT:

    Not sure if any of that made sense since I was incredibly pissed off when I typed it. Here's the deal: the ruling says that we cannot create a new S9 thread, correct? There is no rule stating that we can't continue talking about S9 in the existing S8 thread. This thread has been around for 6 months or so, and has always been non-spoiler. I see no reason for the mods to change that thread now, so it can remain non-spoiler. If possible, I will get the title edited to just read Survivor {No Spoilers}. If I can't change the title, it doesn't matter. From this day forward I am only discussing S9 in the existing S8 thread. Anyone who wants to join me is welcome.

    EDIT 2:

    Seeing as how 2 other Survivor threads (here and here) were both directed to the existing S8 thread even though they didn't have anything to do with S8 (well, one kinda did) then I'll take that to mean that the mods consider the S8 thread to be the one to discuss all Survivor subjects in. And again, since it has been non-spoiler for 6 months, I don't see any reason why that would have to change.

    EDIT 3:

    And if you make me change my pre-existing Survivor thread into a spoilers thread, you'll have to do the same for the Smallville thread and any other pre-existing non-spoilers threads. I don't think you guys will want to deal with the backlash of making those threads change ...
  17. Kimball_Kinnison Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2001
    star 6
    w_k,

    That is enough.

    A decision was made. You disagreed with it. The moderators reconsidered it, but decided to hold to the original decision. Continuing to complain about the policy is not going to change it now.

    The policy is HTR. Accept that.

    Additionally, just because you started the thread does not mean that you control it. That is a clearly established point (see the LBL threads for an example of why). You don't decide how the rules are applied to the thread.

    Kimball Kinnison
  18. wild_karrde Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 1999
    star 7
    I can complain about unfair decisions all I want, that's not against the rules. If you're going to make a new rule that states users can't challenge mods decisions, that's your business, but I can tell you right now that all hell will break loose.

    Anyway, anyone who wants to talk about S9 can do so in the old S8 thread, which is non-spoiler :)
  19. wild_karrde Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 1999
    star 7
    Unlock the S8 thread NOW. We are still discussing S8.
  20. Kimball_Kinnison Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2001
    star 6
    I can complain about unfair decisions all I want, that's not against the rules. If you're going to make a new rule that states users can't challenge mods decisions, that's your business, but I can tell you right now that all hell will break loose.

    It's not going to change it, though.

    You wanted the decision to be reconsidered. It was. THe reconsideration simply resulted in the same decision.

    WHat do you hope to accomplish by continuing to complain about it? Your complaints are not likely to change it at all, and if anything they will only serve to cement the policy.

    Kimball Kinnison
  21. wild_karrde Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 1999
    star 7
    So now we can't even talk in old threads? Not allowed to discuss old seasons of Survivor? What the hell kind of rule is that? Can you explain that one to me?
  22. carmenite42 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 21, 2003
    star 4
    Wait... did I miss something?

    You guys made the decision that all new threads need to be HTR policy. Which is fine - you're the mods, and you get to make that call. I'd said from the begining in my PMs to y'all that I appreciate your reconsidering it, even if the decision doesn't change.

    But why the hell did the other thread get closed? If I understand the policy you guys came up with, pre-existing no-spoiler threads can continue to exist, it's just that all new threads can't.

    As for the Smallville comparisons, if a new Smallville thread was started today then it would be HTR as well. This is how it will be from here on out. (emphasis mine)

    So WHY DID YOU CLOSE THE OTHER THREAD? It wasn't breaking policy.
  23. Wes_Janson Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2004
    star 5
    W_K, I could provide another fourm for you and spoiler-free people if you want it. I allready have a board set up for the YJK fan club, and could simply make a new section of it for survivor, plus give you mod powers there so you could enforce the no-spoiler/no HTR policy.
  24. wild_karrde Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 1999
    star 7
    Yeah, if you lock the existing Survivor thread, I demand you lock the existing mallville thread, and all existing non-spoiler threads, because they are all breaking your "rules" [face_plain]

    Wes_Janson - I appreciate that, I'll consider it. I also have a few other forums where I can discuss it if I choose. I'd prefer to discuss it on the JCC however, since that's where most of my Survivor friends post.
  25. -_-_-_-_-_- Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2002
    star 6
    W_K, it is clearly spelled out in the policy I posted in the first post of the Survivor 9 thread that it will serve not only as the place for discussion of the ninth season, but as all other things pertaining to Survivor as well such as previous seasons, upcoming DVDs, etc. With that being said, I encourage you to continue your discussion of season eight or any other season in the thread.

    Edit: As for locking the Survivor 8 thread, it comes down to a simple issue of redundancy. For example, when a new Blue Yoda thread is created, the old one is locked. The same goes for any other threads.
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