[JCC]Why can't there be 2 Survivor threads?

Discussion in 'Communications' started by wild_karrde, May 12, 2004.

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  1. LiteraryGeniusIV Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2003
    star 3
    Here is my suggestion for the improvement of the JCC, and it applies to this issue.

    When moderators or admins do something that is:

    A. Stupid
    B. Lame
    C. Uncalled for
    D. Rude
    E. Senseless
    or
    F. All of the above

    and when a great many people realize this and tell them so in a polite manner, the mods/admins in question should do all of the following:

    A. Undo it
    B. Say "Oops, sorry."
    and
    C. Not be rude about a situation which is simpler than ABC.


    That is just my idea.
  2. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    Speaking of rude and uncalled for, that post is both of those things. It is also condescending. Consider this your warning. Calling people stupid, even mods... is a flame and will get you banned.
  3. carmenite42 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 21, 2003
    star 4
    Calling people stupid, even mods... is a flame and will get you banned.

    ...I was under the impression that there was a difference between calling someone stupid, and calling someone's actions stupid. Was I mistaken in that assumption?
  4. -_-_-_-_-_- Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2002
    star 6
    I think there is also a fine line between voicing one's opinions and dissatisfactions with a decision, and baiting someone, namely a mod.
  5. carmenite42 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 21, 2003
    star 4
    I'll agree with that, and I think that there have been some posts here that may be getting close to bashing. However, Genious's post seemed to be more aimed at all the JC mods as a whole, and not you specifically, and while it may be a bit abrasive, I didn't see it as flaming.

    Then again, it's not my call.
  6. -_-_-_-_-_- Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2002
    star 6
    My post wasn't generally referring to Genious's post, but to the trend within this thread. I am in favor of users voicing their opinions over this HTR issue and how it affects the Survivor threads, whether it be in support or opposition. Criticism is also something that comes along with VIP colors and those extra user features, but things were allowed to go a bit far as some continued to bait a number of moderators. I think a Comms mod should have stepped in and defused this before it got too far offhand, which it did. It also took away from the discussion of any viable solution/explanation to this situation.
  7. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    My post above was done with Kimball Kinneson's blessing. He is at work and cannot comment right now but will address things fully when he gets home.

  8. Ensign_Cool Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 19, 2004
    star 1
    There is currently no mention of any "spoiler" policy in the JCC Rules & Regulations Forum sticky. When will this be updated to reflect the new HTR policy?
  9. carmenite42 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 21, 2003
    star 4
    I'll agree that there are times when the posts got out of hand and/or repetetive. And some of that may be me, for which I'm sorry.

    I'm going to repost something that I said earlier which may have gotten lost in the shuffle. So, um, yeah.

    The biggest problem that I have with this is the lack of communication.

    You decided that the new policy was HTR. It was never said. In fact, it was so confused, that Dagsy edited spoilers out of the thread, and then went back and said spoilers were okay in an HTR capacity. And that's when the policy became definite, but you made it apply to a thread that had started BEFORE the policy became definite.

    If a thread had been posted or some annoucement had been made in the MS updates about the new policy being HTR, then there wouldn't be nearly that much uproar. But the problem is that you decided that this was the new policy, and you made it apply to an old thread. And only some of the old threads, not all of them.

    Can I get some explanation about this by a YJCC mod? Why were spoilers edited out if the policy was HTR? And if the policy wasn't HTR, why didn't you make the annoucment once the policy went into effect, and why did you make it apply to some of the pre-existing threads, but not others?
  10. -_-_-_-_-_- Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2002
    star 6
    When will this be updated to reflect the new HTR policy?

    The details of this are currently being worked out in the MS and should be posted within the next days.


    Can I get some explanation about this by a YJCC mod? Why were spoilers edited out if the policy was HTR? And if the policy wasn't HTR, why didn't you make the annoucment once the policy went into effect, and why did you make it apply to some of the pre-existing threads, but not others?


    After some issues were brought to our attention by Dagsy in the MS reguarding the Survivor thread, three possible options were proposed and voted on. They are as follows:

    A) Make the Survivor thread spoiled.

    B) Make two parallel Survivor threads, on spoiled, one unspoiled.

    C) Make the unspoiled one Highlight-to-read.


    The vote was held amongst the JCC moderators and option three won the majority vote as we felt it would put to rest the issue of redundancy concerning two threads with identical discussion and the fact that both groups could be better served with one thread, with spoilers being optional. The HTR thread had always been an unspoken rule and common practice in the JCC as I have understood, and as with every JCC practice it was open to interpretation depending upon the current moderators. Somewhere along the way, the creation of spoiler and non-spoiler threads were allowed and leads us to the point where we are now. In order to maintain a consistency in the current JCC modding, what we must do for one thread (In this case it is making the new Survivor 9 thread HTR), we must do for all in the interest of fairness. Thus this HTR policy will be worked out and become concrete policy from this point out, or at least until another group of moderators decide to discuss changing it. It will apply to all new threads from this point out and it could be re-evaluated in the coming months depending on its effects on discussion and the JCC itself.
  11. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9
    Has anyone made the requisite "the mods have spoken" joke yet?
  12. jedi_john_33 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2003
    star 7
    And from on top the mountains, the messenger of MOD's has said...

    "The MOD's have spoken."

    there you go dp4m :p
  13. Kimball_Kinnison Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2001
    star 6
    My post above was done with Kimball Kinneson's blessing. He is at work and cannot comment right now but will address things fully when he gets home.

    As strilo said, he handled things with my blessing, and I fully support him in it.

    Now, does anyone have anything new to bring up with this? The concern was brought up, the issue was reconsidered, and a decision was reached by majority vote of the JCC mods. As of now, that decision stands. Continuing to go round and round on this issue will get us nowhere.

    We will review this policy in a month or two, and modify it if it is needed.

    Kimball Kinnison
  14. Darth_Dagsy Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2000
    star 6
    Ok. So, I think Tobey-Wan represented much of my opinion. If a person is excited, and has spoiler information, I dont think that they'll worry about whether a thread is Spoiler or not.

    Add to that that we dont have to protect anyone from spoilers for anything that isnt Star Wars.

    Add to that, that people wanted to be able to discuss spoilers. And I dont think we should encourage multiple threads on the same topic

    Add to that, that there had been a progression to threads being HTR, not seperate spoiler and spoiler free.

    And finally, add to that that this is a SW messageboard. We're happy to encourage discussion of TV shows, but we dont need to cater to multiple groups from each of these shows.

    Anyway, so that is what my position comes from. While I can sympathise with people here, I just havent seen anything to make me change my mind.

    But I've been thinking of ways to find a compromise. I had half an idea last night, but it was probably a little iffy. But I'll see what my feeble mind can come up with.

    Though I have to say that the attitude of various people in this discussion have made me somewhat reticent to try to help.
  15. Mitt Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 1999
    star 6


    Why with the Survivor threads being such a hot topic was another day of cooling off not allowed. Just because the season ended, less then 24 hours ago, was no reason to lock down the current thread and start a new one.

  16. stinrab Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1998
    star 5
    Add to that, that people wanted to be able to discuss spoilers.

    I think you'll find that 95% of the people who inhabit JCC Survivor threads do not want to discuss spoilers (particularly those of the "____ wins immunity", "_____ wins", etc.).

    The previous policy towards Survivor thread worked perfectly fine. There was no reason to change it.
  17. jacemathem Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2003
    star 5
    I believe the HTR policy works best when the east coast people want to discuss what they just saw but want to save the west coast people from being openly spoiled before the show airs for them.
  18. epic Ex Mod / RSA

    Member Since:
    Jul 4, 1999
    star 7
    there is no comparision between tv drama show spoilers (smallville, ER, whatever) and survivor spoilers. mods who think there is obviously don't know enough about the show itself. the MAJORITY of posters to the survivor thread are NOT going to want to talk about spoilers. getting spoiled in a survivor thread is BAD. detrimental. etc etc. a spoiler about a tv drama is meh. that is, it's not critical to the overall point of the entire show.

    i would also like to ask why the mods seemingly don't care what the actual participants of the survivor thread think, the ones who actually know the concept and understand that a single spoiler unchecked could cause so much trouble. i would like to know how many of the jcc mods who "voted" on this new rule change actually watch survivor?

    even worse, though, is this bile about it being a star wars forum (who the hell cares), and questioning of the seriousness of the issue: if you don't know the issue, don't comment, mkay? just because you don't think it's a big deal, doesn't mean, like, it isn't a big deal. this forum isn't about reducing every criticism that arises. we want mod interaction in the comms forum but we don't want uninformed, pointless statements just for the sake of making them.

    i suggest the mods start listening to the users actually effected by this decision. they're not "whinging" for the sake of it. why must the mods consistently have this view? it's extremeley poor form. but who are they to actually listen to people?
  19. Katya Jade Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2002
    star 7
    The previous policy towards Survivor thread worked perfectly fine. There was no reason to change it.

    I agree. While I understand the other's reasoning behind an HTR thread, my view still stands that we can have two Survivor threads. There's never been a complaint about having two of them when the other threads are HTR.

    That said, the vote has happened and, for now, the Survivor thread will follow the same rules as the others. However, I would think we could revisit this issue at a later time should the HTR method not work in the Survivor thread.
  20. Leonard_ShelbyThe2nd Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2002
    star 4
    epic: Though I totally disagreed with your post in the Big Brother thread, I TOTALLY agree with you post in this thread.
  21. wild_karrde Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 1999
    star 7
    I'll get to the other stuff later, but if anyone wants to discuss the show without fear of running into spoilers, you can do so in THIS THREAD in the Amphitheatre. Reminder - it is 100% non-spoiler. This thread has been approved by Mastadge.
  22. wild_karrde Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 1999
    star 7
    OK, I'm sick of all this crap, and I got a thread now, so I'm just going to ask 1 question:


    You say that the reasoning behind this new rule is that you don't want a bunch of duplicate threads about the same show, movie, etc. The rule up until yesterday was that Spoiler and Non-Spoiler threads were perfectly ok, and yet the JCC was not overrun by duplicates. So my question is: why do you suddenly think that the JCC will be overrun by duplicate threads, thus necessitating this rule? What is it that has changed that has you convinced that this is necessary? If duplicate threads were not a problem before, why will they be in the future?

    OK, more than one question, but they are all along the same line. I would greatly appreciate a well thought out, detailed answer to this (these) question(s).
  23. -_-_-_-_-_- Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2002
    star 6
    I'll repost my statement from earlier in the thread, as it basically sums up the basic points of this situation from our standpoint.


    After some issues were brought to our attention by Dagsy in the MS reguarding the Survivor thread, three possible options were proposed and voted on. They are as follows:

    A) Make the Survivor thread spoiled.

    B) Make two parallel Survivor threads, on spoiled, one unspoiled.

    C) Make the unspoiled one Highlight-to-read.


    The vote was held amongst the JCC moderators and option three won the majority vote as we felt it would put to rest the issue of redundancy concerning two threads with identical discussion and the fact that both groups could be better served with one thread, with spoilers being optional. The HTR thread had always been an unspoken rule and common practice in the JCC as I have understood, and as with every JCC practice it was open to interpretation depending upon the current moderators. Somewhere along the way, the creation of spoiler and non-spoiler threads were allowed and leads us to the point where we are now. In order to maintain a consistency in the current JCC modding, what we must do for one thread (In this case it is making the new Survivor 9 thread HTR), we must do for all in the interest of fairness. Thus this HTR policy will be worked out and become concrete policy from this point out, or at least until another group of moderators decide to discuss changing it. It will apply to all new threads from this point out and it could be re-evaluated in the coming months depending on its effects on discussion and the JCC itself.
  24. wild_karrde Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 1999
    star 7
    Um, did you read my question? I don't think so, seeing as that has nothing to do with it. I repeat:

    For 6 years now the rule has been that Spoiler and Non-Spoiler threads were allowed to co-exist. You have made this new HTR rule because you say that without it the boards will become cluttered with multiple threads about the same show, movie, etc. Why do you think that this will happen when it has not happened in the previous 6 years? What has changed to make you think this would happen? Why do you think that there will be a sudden increase in threads about the same subject? What has happened on the JCC to make you believe that there will be multiple threads created about the same shows? Is there some trend that I (and many, many others) have not noticed? What is the reasoning behind this decision?

    I (and I'm sure others) would like you to answer these questions.
  25. -_-_-_-_-_- Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2002
    star 6
    Wild, I have explained twice already how we reached our decision and why we did so. Nothing I can say will satisfy you, so I will leave it at that. What we did, we did with the best interest of the forum and moderating consistency in mind, nothing else. You have what you wish, a non-spoiler thread in The Amphitheatre, so I really don't understand why you continue to press the issue despite every mod responding and giving their input in this thread other than Fish and nashira.
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