Rogue One Jedha and Church of the Force Discussion

I agree. No Lor San Tekka. I think they missed that one, it would have been a great inclusion. I loved the Guardians reference and i hope its in Ep8 now.

 

more info on the Jedi and Jedha
https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsLeaks/comments/5j2cli/r1_rebels_dossier_information_jedha_was_an/

 

Whats struck me is that Jedah (a Star Wars holy city) immediately reminded me of Jeddah which is a real city; a gateway city in the Middle East for Mecca (the Islamic holy land).
Coincidence in the naming?

 

My impression so far is that the Whills are using the force passively for guidance and insight into the future, while Jedi and Sith are active force users.

Could it be that Snoke is or was part of the whills and is just using the force for knowledge?

 

I think the Force/Jedi beyond the often mentioned Taoist elements always had an Islamic(especially Sufism) influence to it so Edwards looking got such links does I think fit in pretty well, he doesn't really make anything THAT overt.

To me Jehda and the Guardians most definitely felt like the start of trying to take a look at the Jedi's background that differs significantly from the PT, more mysterious/spiritual and less part of the establishment which I'd imagine fits into many peoples expectations from the OT more.

 

I don't know about that. Based on the OT and Lucas's comments about Luke's costume during the filming of Return of the Jedi, I would have expected the Jedi to have a more militaristic role as guardians of the Rebublic than either the monks in the prequels or the cultists of Jedha. I actually think that what we saw in Jedha conforms more to the prequels than the OT.

But that's just my interpretation. You're certainly right that the Force was more mysterious in Rogue One (and on Jedha) than in the prequels.

 

Now that not only do we have a sense of what the ancient order of the Whills is, but ( according to Pablo ) , the references to them in ROTS script are canon, might we learn more of their path to immortality? It strikes me that Yoda's line about retaining the physical self is a bit of a game changer.

222 INT. POLIS MASSA-OBSERVATION DOME-NIGHT
On the isolated asteroid of Polis Massa, YODA meditates.

YODA
Failed to stop the Sith Lord, I have.
Still much to learn, there is …

QUI -GON (V.O.)
Patience. You will have time. I did not.
When I became one with the Force I made a great discovery. With my training, you will be able to merge with the Force at will.
Your physical self will fade away, but
you will still retain your consciousness.
You will become more powerful
than any Sith.

YODA
Eternal consciousness.

QUI-GON (V.O.)
The ability to defy oblivion can be achieved, but only for oneself. It was accomplished by a Shaman of the Whills. It is a state acquired through compassion, not greed.

YODA
… to become one with the Force,
and influence still have…
A power greater than all, it is.

QUI-GON (V.O.)
You will learn to let go of everything.
No attachment, no thought of self.
No physical self.

YODA
A great Jedi Master, you have become,
Qui-Gon Jinn. Your apprentice I gratefully become.

YODA thinks about this for a minute, then BAIL ORGANA enters the room and breaks his meditation.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YODA
(continuing)
Master Kenobi, wait a moment.
In your solitude on Tatooine, training I have for you.

OBI-WAN
Training??

YODA
An old friend has learned
the path to immortality.

OBI-WAN
Who?

YODA
One who has returned from the
netherworld of the Force to train me…
your old Master, Qui-Gon Jinn.

OBI-WAN
Qui-Gon? But, how could
he accomplish this?

YODA
The secret of the Ancient Order
of the Whills, he studied. How to
commune with him. I will teach you.

OBI-WAN
I will be able to talk with him?

YODA
How to join the Force, he will train you.
Your consciousness you will retain,
when one with the Force. Even
your physical self, perhaps.

 

I have the impression that the Whills originated on Jeddha. I wonder how many temples and installations do they have around the galaxy. I guess that Luke met some of them after ROTJ.

 

Sorry for the double post!

 

yeah, I really hope we get more on this.

 

Chirrut seemed to be the perfect example of devotion to the force, selflessness and compassion. While he may not have been as strong in the force as a Jedi, the force was clearly with him. From reading in a post above about Qui-Gon's learning from a shaman of the Whills, it makes me wonder if Chirrut and others from his order retained their identity after death and became force ghosts. If a shaman of the Whills was willing to teach Qui-Gon, you would think that he would also teach his own order the same thing.

 

Yes, i believe that too that he was force sensitive. But even if not, it could be that force sensitivity isn't necessary for force ghosting. Maybe it's more dependant on the purity of mind and heart, like it was with Ulic when he became a force ghost in TOTJ.

 

For all my pooh-poohing about nothing now apparently (what was shown in the film), I have to say the designs of the pilgrims are very interesting and I'd be curious to see how this plays into Jedi history. As far as Chirrut, some Force sensitivity sure, enough to guide him physically and to allow him to "read" other beings. Now, Baze, I am really curious about whether or not he could have some sensitivity as well since Chirrut mentioned something that Baze was the most devout of the Guardians. If they fleshed these two out more I would have liked that, from where I sit I got very little character insights from both and I wanted more.

 

There's going to be a novel about the two of them in May 2017.

 

Thanks for the heads up.

 

Well it's a "middle grade" novel, which I assume is a step or two down from YA.

 

I had a lot of fun with the young Kenobi novels, so I'll see if this is to my liking. Thanks for the additional clarification.

 

I loved that part...I was like, "Did Chirrut just say what I thought he said?" Almost shed a tear at that reference.

According to the novel, he does.

 

What a great thread -- I can't wait to watch those clips [with volume] after I leave work today. And I just ordered the R1 Visual Dictionary after seeing what you guys posted.

I'll have to check back in on this thread after watching the vids and getting the book. So much food for thought -- again I'll say it - but this movie kicked @$$ and all the additional conceptualizations are AWESOME

If SW overall continues on this path I'll be happy forever!

Edit: What is this "Rebel One Dossier"? and should I buy it too?

 

This is an awesome thread. I have no doubt that something from R1 will end up referenced in the ST.

If I may take another angle, however, something I thought R1 did exceptionally well was it captured the feel of the OT in style and design. After watching R1, I watched ANH and was satisfied to see how they fit together visually despite 39 years of separation.

Then, I watched TFA. Despite TFA's flaws, the best thing it did in my mind was reintroduce the familiar (the Star Wars Galaxy) yet introduce new twists and designs on what we already knew. Kylo is a brilliant new enemy, BB8 is genius, the FO Stormtroopers look great, the new X-Wings are fantastic, and our new characters and intriguing. This is no small task and in my mind a reason why TFA will survive the test of time despite its flaws. It accomplished moving the story forward while keeping the feel of the OT we love so much.

 

This:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Rogue_One_Rebel_Dossier

In Europe, it's "Rogue One: Mission Files". It's pretty good about showing the early events of the movie from the perspective of people like Mon Mothma and Draven, in memo form - plus bits of background information.

 

This is is one way that R1 really stepped up to the plate, namely by ensuring the film had a spiritual component. So important to the overall makeup of SW. Comparatively, TFA came close to making a joke out of the Force, which I found pretty off putting.

I also had no idea the Whills came so close to getting a mention in ROTS. No wonder GL is stoked for this entry! Doling out incremental revelations about the Force over time is a good way to keep me paying attention in the fanfilm era.

 

Touching the very heart of the Force on the spiritual level helped grasp the story and put it right where Star Wars needs to be. No Jedi? No problem as Chirrut and co. On Jedha brought this to the film in a big way and now let the conversations begin on who the Wills are and how Qui Gon incorporated their teaching into the standard Jedi way.

 

I misheard and thought they were guardians of the Willis's and that Bruce Willis and his extended family were all VIP's.

 

I really hated this scene being cut out. But GL did a whole story of it in TCW.

He tells Baze that he can be found in the Force. So maybe--ultimately it's the Whill of the Force.