Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by Obi-Wong, Dec 4, 2012.
Noted. Now move on if it bothers you that much.
Considering that there are still plenty of people ****ing ESB in 2012, I should say not. But we're talking about the very nature of sequels here, CB. We're six, about to be seven, movies in with this franchise. Eventually, the freshness of Yoda levitating an X-wing is going to lose some impact.
It's preposterous to tell the audience for Iron Man 3 that Iron Man can't do anything overly awesome, because it would diminish the effect of Iron Man 1.
I think they should fly like Peter Pan.
There isn't much else they can do without seeming too powerful and too superheroic. One of the things I always hated about Superman wass that he was too powerful. You always had to implement Kryptonite somehow in order to beat him and even then it was always temporary until he figured a way out of it = L A M E.
You're right, of course, but I still think it didn't have to be trivialized to the extent that it was. It's disappointing.
I agree when it comes to Jedi powers (and hey, so does George!), but I would say that Superman's greatest weakness is writers with a lack of imagination. When someone like Grant Morrison gets his hands on Supes... watch out.
The more you see the Jedi and the Sith use the Force, the more "common" it becomes. There's no way around it. We just need new interesting and dramatic situations as well as choreography.
This bugs me to no end. “Only a fully-trained Jedi Knight, with the Force as his ally, will conquer Vader and his Emperor” and “No more training do you require. Already know you, that which you need.” The notion that Luke Skywalker is some half-trained n00b is a big pile of malarkey.
Using the movies as criteria, show me something a Council-level Jedi Master could do that Luke could not do by the end of RotJ. By comparison, there were things that Luke could do in ESB that only Yoda, the Emperor, and Vader could do in the prequels.
I agree with your points Bassist. I have said this for years as well. The Jedi were portrayed too unrealistic and like superheroes to the point of it taking me out of the story and zapping any bit of realism or tension from the scenes.
I am hoping the sequel trilogy will resemble the OT more than the PT.
I think Yoda is referring more to Luke's emotional maturity and self-control than simply his lightsaber skills (which were always secondary to the Jedi anyway). Of course, he's very powerful and comfortable enough with the lightsaber to rely on it exclusively instead of the blaster (in TESB, he's still midway). He's also a match for Vader although I think their final duel is somewhat subdued since neither wants to kill the other (Luke gives in to anger, but briefly recovers). If Jedi Master Luke truly fights for his life/his family/the fate of the galaxy, I believe he's going to be unstoppable, even more powerful than Yoda.
Jedi are superheroes.
The PT Force powers got out of hand for me as well. I liked how in the OT the Force augmented the indvidual, whereas in the prequels the Jedi and Sith became able to do anything.
They should all be given rings where they fight with their IMAGINATION. Like The Green Lantern. I mean that movie was a hit right?
Yeah, but the PT made them into super-duper-heroes.
I don't expect realism out of series where the bad guy choked people with his mind from day one.
Yeah, like that scene where Yoda pulled a battleship right out of the sky, or that scene where Mace Windu took down a whole army of Battle Droids.
Oh wait, no, that's wasn't the PT at all...
Agree with this, I do.
Personally, with the exception of Yoda, I thought the Jedi were portrayed as too weak in the PT. It was all flashy lightsaber antics and very little using of the force. And when it was used it was for more trivial things like Anakin lifting a fruit or Obi-wan opening a door. I want more useful examples of the force. Sensing peoples presence, intentions and thoughts, visions of the future, speaking to each other through the force when in close proximity, mind tricks, force choking, levitating and hurling objects, being able to fight without the use of their eyes. All of these things are in the OT, but hardly at all or poorly used in the PT. What's the point of being a Jedi or Sith if you're no more powerful than a bounty hunter?
Pro Scoundrel I would argue that the purely telepathic elements of the Force are exclusive to family members in movie canon. Think about it, the Jedi are always using communicators in TCW and the movies. The only people who are straight up thinking at one another are Luke and Vader. Everything else seems to be empathic in nature.
The Jedi need to add more strategy and cunningness to their fighting patterns. The force powers in the PT felt like video game power-ups.
Ah, but the emperor does it to Anakin in ROTS. The only time it's used in the prequels, that I can think of.
You mean "I sense Lord Vader is in danger"? I would still classify that as more "empathic" than telepathic. If you mean the voiceover during Anakin's Council chamber scene, I just took that as an audio callback.
I just feel like the force was more mystical in nature in the OT. It had a bit more range in the abilities it offered. The PT makes it feel more like a martial art. Too much reliance on lightsabers.
I meant the voiceover. I defintely think he's talking to him telepathically.
Exactly. The only reason Force Powers (if that's a character name, I'm leaving) are rarely seen in the OT is because it's "an ancient religion" and the Jedi "are extinct." Nobody *does* that stuff anymore. And, even then, how often did the average, ordinary person in the SWU see Jedi flipping and flying and Force-palming, etc? A few, but it's not like they moved speeders to get good parking spaces. Beings were familiar with the Jedi and knew they had some special powers - kind of like in Martial Arts films where everyone knows the itinerant swordsman has exceptional skill, but the specifics elude them. Once the Empire steps in, the Jedi Mythology dies with the Jedi themselves. By ANH, no one believes in that stuff anymore.
That's why it seems like Force Powers were so "uncommon" in the OT. Luke was it. He had all the training he needed and was, pound-for-pound, a match for Vader in ROTJ. He'd have killed him if he hadn't shown restraint on his emotions. The only thing Luke lacked was Force Lightning and the power to absorb/deflect it.
Besides, Vader only says "Obi Wan has taught you well." He doesn't know Luke was hanging with Yoda.
They should scream while performing their force powers like in David Lynch's Dune. AAAAA Boom!