Speculation Jedi Abililities in the ST

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by Obi-Wong, Dec 4, 2012.

  1. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    We don't see that Luke could not do these things; because he threw away his saber we can only say that he did not.
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, Dec 4, 2012
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  2. bluemilkcheesypuffs77 Jedi Master

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    Nov 5, 2012
    star 2
    I wan to see jacen be able to control animals like he did in the EU. would he wear Jedi robes though?
  3. honeybadger Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2012
    star 1
    Now that the Sith are destroyed, I would like to see jedi using the force to do useful things like ripening cheese or levitating old people so they don't need to buy a stairlift.
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  4. bluemilkcheesypuffs77 Jedi Master

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    Nov 5, 2012
    star 2
    Possibly some kind of heat power where they can provide warmth for homeless children.
  5. Echo-07 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2012
    star 4
    I often wish I had the ability to use the Force. Usually it's at times when it would benefit me most, like when I'm lying on the couch and the remote control is out of reach or when I'm driving along trying to get somewhere and I get stuck behind some ******* who doesn't know how to drive the speed limit or when I'm grocery shopping and I can't reach something way up high.
  6. Panakas_Dawg Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2004
    star 5
    Dude, if any of us had the power to wave a hand or wiggle some fingers in the air and get people to do whatever we wanted, the world wouldn't be safe. Just sayin'.
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  7. Mystery Roach Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2004
    star 4
    I know I'm not the first to address this, but I do think the important distinction here is that the Sith are more powerful than the Jedi. Just look at the last two things you mentioned for instance. In both cases, the Sith did those things with ease, but for Yoda to counter them took as much concentration on his part as it did to move the X-wing. I do agree that the net effect of this removes some of the awe from that scene in the swamp, but that was an inevitable outcome of seeing the Sith face the Jedi in their prime, and really it's still there as long as you put yourself in Luke's shoes rather than just looking it as an omniscient audience member.

    Somehow that interpretation of the scene never occurred to me, but now that I think about it, it actually makes a lot of sense that Palpatine would telepathically urge Anakin to come to him at that moment.
  8. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper and Rumor Naysayer

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    The Jedi of Geonosis and Order 66 might have something to say about that. Oh wait...[face_skull]
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  9. Cantina Bassist Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2012
    star 2
    I have my suspicions that Law Jedi can do that & he's waiting for the perfect moment to let that be known to us. i.e I don't believe we're safe.......
  10. KevinM1 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2012
    star 2
    None of that is actually attributed to the Dark Side. We're shown one level of power in the OT. We're shown a different level of power in the PT. In the PT, the Dark Side's 'cloudiness' is made in reference to Yoda's increasing inability to see the future. There's absolutely nothing that states/shows/implies that the Dark Side hampers a Jedi's Force abilities across the board. If that was Lucas' intent, he did a horrible job expressing it.

    The difference in power, from an in-universe perspective, is more easily explained by the fact that the only Jedi we see in the OT are entirely out of their prime. Obi-Wan is an old man whose powers are weak. Yoda is an ancient who is near the end of his life. Even Vader is half a man.

    Of course, IRL, it's just Lucas being sloppy in trying to show the Jedi at the height of their ability. Unfortunately, it made them seem cartoonish.
  11. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    But Luke didn't defeat Vader and the Emperor. He gave into his anger (what Vader was trying to provoke, not something Yoda would ahve wanted him to do) and attacked him in a fit of rage. Then Vader killed the Emperor, not Luke. Yoda also tells him he isn't a Jedi and that his training was incomplete when he left to face him before, since Luke didn't train with Yoda again.....

    He isn't a half trained n00b, but he also isn't a fully trained Jedi. He spend at most (from everything I've seen/read) 6 months with Yoda training. He had maybe a couple days with Obi-wan before that. The PT era Jedi would spend 20+ years training before they were fully trained Jedi Knights. I believe even Lucas said said somethign along the lines of, in the PT we are goign to finally see Jedi in their prime, int he Ot they are only old men, cyborgs and half-trained Jedi.
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  12. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper and Rumor Naysayer

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    In order to deflect or absorb Sith lightning with his lightsaber, Luke would’ve had to be wielding a lightsaber.
    A Force push is moving something with your mind. Luke could do that. Buuuut…if you wanna nit-pick about it, we can go there.

    First off, it would appear that Force push is a less refined use of telekinesis, as evidenced by how much effort the various Force-users display in the movies. It’s the difference between picking up a carton of eggs or shoving them off the table. Given that Luke would levitate a lightsaber with upside-down and half-dead before training with Yoda, I’m pretty sure he could shove around a couple of battle droids. If he faced any. Which he didn’t. Speaking of…

    The only ones in the PT to use telekinesis on living beings (Grievous is mostly droid) are Yoda (RotS vs. troopers at the Temple, and Red Guard), Tyranus (vs. Kenobi in RotS), and Vader. That would suggest that either it takes a certain mindset or a certain level of power, or just that they’re the only ones who chose use that power on living beings. Either way, Luke is on-par.

    Also, you don’t see Jedi trying to Force push droids on Geonosis, while they’re in the midst of a Zerg Rush. (except Kit Fisto, and I chalk that up to the Rule of Funny) Similarly, Luke doesn’t use Force push while he’s mowing down the Mook Horde on Tatooine.

    Now granted, Luke was unable to deflect objects being thrown at him by Vader, but it’s firggin’ Darth Vader! And the only ones to deflect Sith lightning barehanded are Yoda and Tyranus.

    All said and done, that still leaves Luke above and beyond everyone in the PT who’s not a Dark Lord of the Sith, the Chosen One, or the Grand Master of the Jedi Order. On top of that, there are abilities that Luke exhibited in ESB (telepathy, prophecy) that not even Council Masters could accomplish.

    Luke being a half-trained n00b is pure nonsense.
  13. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    Yoda was able to absorb Palpatines lightning without a lightsaber.

    So the PT era Jedi couldn't do anything Luke couldn't, excpet for the times they did? Luke wasn't able to (or at least never showed the ability too) absorb lightning, fun faster, use the force offensively int he middle of combat (like Kit Fisto, Qui-Gon, Yoda, Anakin and Obi-Wan did), slow down while falling (as Mace did).

    And yes Luke is half-trained. You have YOda saying it in the movie and Lucas saying it about the character. Plus the whole logical "could he cramp 20+ years worth of training into 6 months?
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  14. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper and Rumor Naysayer

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    Which suggests to me that Jedi training is not so much about “kewl powarz” and more about how to be a Jedi. Same with the Sith. Think about it: Darth Vader spent nearly a quarter-century as the Sith apprentice to Darth Sidious…

    …to be able to do exactly the same stuff he could do in RotS, which was to choke the **** out of people.
  15. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    Except for Luke not being able to use all the kewl powarz that the PT era Jedi could.

    Vader also lost a quarter of his body which diminished his ability to use the force.
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  16. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    Didn't Obi-Wan take control of an animal during the Genosis fight in AOTC? I want that to be explored a little more in the ST.
  17. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    I forgot about that (though its Anakin who does it), that would have come in handy in the Rancor pit. Too bad Luke wasn't trained enough to know how to do that.
    Last edited by fenton, Dec 5, 2012
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  18. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    "Why didn't you tell me about that trick Ben?"
    "Well I forgot, so I was right, from a certain point of view"
    ....
    "Ben what the hell are you talking about?"
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  19. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper and Rumor Naysayer

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    Soooo…by that logic, Sidious should’ve chucked Vader for the first Force-sensitive he came across who had all their parts 8-}

    As far as the “half-trained” quote from Lucas, that was specifically in reference to fighting styles. To paraphrase, The Flanneled One said all we’ve seen is duels between an old man, a cripple, and a half-trained boy. I think we can agree that Yoda (at least in the movies) didn’t teach Luke much about lightsaber combat (in the novelization, he did); but I get the feeling that we could be at it till kingdom come about Luke’s level of knowledge, though…
  20. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    Not hte first, but he was trying to chuck him for a powerful one (Luke).

    Even if you're right about what Lucas said (I don't think you are), Luke can't fight as good as a PT era Jedi, and is missing several force powers (absorb lightning, speed, animal calming, slowing a fall). He didn't show the ability to manulipate the force or what he did know in combat and/or while doing something else, like fighting. And you have Yoda saying his training wasn't complete.

    Luke isn't a fully trained Jedi.
  21. LawJedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2009
    star 4
    No one is safe. [face_plain] No one.
  22. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    QFT.
  23. DancingBobcat Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2012
    I'm tired of seeing the Force be used to get the Jedi out of any jam that comes along, and then have them completely ignore it when it's convenient for storytelling. With the powers that Obi-Wan and Anakin were throwing at each other, there is no reason that any Jedi would not be able to capture any non-Force user. Even in groups, the level of Force sensitivity and ability even in TPM left gaps in the story, such as the Jedi having to run from the ships and droids after landing on Naboo. With the level of ability Qui-Gon supposedly had (unless there were huge advances in the Jedi's understanding of how to use the Force between what he could do in TPM vs. what Obi-Wan could do in ROTS), he could have found a depression in the ground to hide in, or a tree to climb, or force-jumped over one of the tanks and been perfectly safe.

    In short, my opinion of what Force powers I would like to see, or not see, is less important than my desire to see some internal consistency of what Force-users can & can't do across different situations.
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  24. Count Yubnub Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2012
    star 4
    No, wrong. If the dark side only prevented seeing the future, Mace would have said "I think it is time we informed that Senate that our ability to see the future has diminished," rather than "I think it is time we informed that Senate that our ability to use the Force has diminished." Furthermore, Yoda's expressed frustration about the Jedi's inability to see the creation of the clone army (and other things) doesn't refer to the future.
  25. Volderon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 23, 2007
    star 4
    I want to see more mysticism. Remember in Episode 4 when we first see Ben? You were like woahhh this dude has power, just by his bearing and mannerisms. You dont need to leap and somersault to prove it.