Jedi Apprentice Discussion Board

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Cerassi, Nov 20, 2000.

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  1. Mistress_Renata Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2000
    star 4
    Maybe some MINOR spoilers...#6

    Well, I'm 50-50 about Xanatos. On the one hand, it would have been SO dreary having the same villain show up in every single one, and having him escape and come back throughout the series would be too much like comic books ("Oh, no, Boy Padawan, it's my Evil Nemesis, Dr. Xanatos!" "Holy Lightsabers, Masterman!") It just gets old.

    But he was a pretty good villain while he lasted. I don't like the villain of #11 nearly as much (there, that can't classify as a spoiler, can it?)

    I did like the way X threw the Temple into chaos. (That goes back as far as #6, so that can't entirely be a spoiler, can it?)
  2. Cerassi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2000
    star 1
    Holy lightsabers , masterman! hehehe..yea right...

    Well, while i saw Xanatos as a formidable villina created, when i look back on all the books as a whole i do not tend to view X. as one of the main and utterly important parts. Obi and Qui gon's masster-padawan struggle and the Melida-Daan escapade was far more important when i looked back. After the melida/daan event in perhaps book8 or 7 (i am not sure) i like how the author added Xanatos once again to finish what had begun in the earlier books.

    I forget who was discussing this earlier, but i feel the way the authors discribed Obi wan as being big for his age was good because it showed a little that obi wan was perhaps a little "misplaced" for lack of a better word. It forshadowed perhaps that since Obi wan was not of a normality that he either fit with Qui gon in that Qui was not the normal Jedi either. You could also percieve this the other way and view it as forshadowing he was awkward and would perhaps be an awkward jedi padawan. I sort of hold faith in the idea that his description may have some underlying theme but since the authors did not spend much time with that it may have just been me reading into something too much, but then again Watson has been known in these books to foreshadow (like in book #9) and other books.

    Well anyways, May the Force be With You.
    -Cerassi
  3. Lagniappe Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 19, 1999
    star 4
    Cerassi,

    As to the point about Obi-wan being "big" for his age, I agree with you completely. I think it was essentially used by the author as a way of making Obi-wan sort of a misfit - which is fine. I agree that it adds to his character for him to be somewhat awkward... and it does bind him more closely to Qui-gon, who is after all, a bit of a maverick himself. My problem was NOT that the author tried to make Obi-wan somewhat of a misfit, but that he did so by suggesting Obi-wan was BIG for his age - a fact that just doesn't seem to jive with his portrayal by Guiness and McGregor, both of whom are rather short actually. I think it would have been more logical to make Obi-wan SMALL for his age - thus acomplishing the "outcast" thing in a more realistic manner. But it is really a minor point.


    I wanted to add that I am in the middle of #11, and I love the way the relationship between Obi and Qui is shaping up. Obi is displaying those preconceptions about others that are sitll plaguing him in TPM, and is also beginning to feel comfortable enough with Qui-gon for the occassional wise crack remark... al la, "You were right about one thing, Master. The negotiations 'were' short."
  4. Mistress_Renata Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2000
    star 4
    I can see your point, Lagniappe.

    Of course, in making him bigger, I'm sure Dave W. was trying to make him more appealing to the target audience (kids). And it could be, I suppose, that it was the intention of making him feel clumsy in a body that hit an early growth spurt. Actually, it's an interesting thought in re: the first three books & Bandomeer...he's taller than his fellow students, but he's the one who hasn't been chosen, while they're all getting picked ahead of him. That and feeling clutzy, not having acquired an ease with his new size...

    Ah, well. It will be interesting to see how the relationship works out, and how it all gets resolved.

    Happy Holidays, all.

    --Renata
  5. ValedaKor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2000
    star 5
    Perhaps Obi-Wan suffers some sort of injury/virus that will stunt his growth...so that he begins to resemble Ewan McGregor more closely...:cool:
    It is indeed the unfolding of the closeness of the bond between the two Jedi that is a major factor attracting me to this series. Dave W. does a masterful job of conveying this theme to the book's YA target audience -- how through every trial and tribulation, Master Jinn and his Padawan continue to work together and understand each other through the essential art of communication. I find myself waiting in eager anticipation for the next instance of the "moral of the story." To me, it's a credit to the author that he manages to convey life's lessons in such an easygoing fashion -- no need for pile drivers here.
  6. naw ibo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 1999
    star 5
    I just decided to catch up with the series recently because I heard the last few were pretty good. I figured in order to understand what was going on in them I'd better read the ones I had skipped:).

    I have a slightly different opinion of M/D, not in terms of its plausibility in general, but because I wasn't convinced. There wasn't anything about the situation or about Obi-Wan's new found friends *as presented* in Book 5 which convinced me that either the situation or his friends were compelling enough to cause him to suddenly leave Qui-Gon, the Jedi, his whole life behind. Which in turn made the rest of the arc a little unbelievable to me. The whole thing seemed like some weird aberration.

    That's neither here nor there now though:). I thought it was sort of strange that they chose to portray Obi-Wan as being big for his age, but I too put it down to being 5 ft. tall and liking the idea of a small hero.:) It's also easy to think that after having him standing next to Qui-Gon all of TPM.

    Really, there isn't any reason he couldn't have been big though. For one thing, neither Ewan nor Sir Alec are short, both are average height(5'10 and 5'11 respectively). In fact in more than one article I've read about Ewan one of the things stated is that he's bigger in person than you think. Also, back in Junior Highschool, sometimes the boys who were biggest by High School had been surpassed by the former little guys. In fact, we had two sets of fraternal twins in which this happened. Each set had one boy who had a growth spurt in JHS, whereas their brothers were sort of little skinny guys. By HS graduation the "little" brothers had surpassed the brothers who were bigger in JHS. Well, at least it makes the whole "big for his age" thing believable:)

    Anyway, I'm looking forward to reading #12. It looks interesting. It'll be nice to see Obi-Wan rescue Qui-Gon for once.
  7. ValedaKor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2000
    star 5
    Let me just start out by saying if you haven't read the series entries that Naw Ibo is talking about, read no further here, because this is about to become one big spoiler!

    OK, that said, I want to respond to the comments about OB1 turning away from the Jedi, and how that may have lacked some plausibility, i.e., his reasoning for it. I think that Jude Watson solves that in a very satisfactory fashion in #8, when Yoda and Qui-Gon are talking and Yoda is trying to convince him that he's making a mistake if he doesn't take OB1 back. The author has Qui-Gon realize that he wasn't betrayed by a Jedi, he was betrayed by a boy, a very young boy who has just been exposed to a strange and wonderful life outside the Temple. And this makes all the difference, of course.

    This is a prime example of why I enjoy this series so much (and I'm a middle-aged adult): Jude Watson subtledly introduces a lesson to be learned for all of us; to go outside ourselves and really see a situation for what it is, not what we think it is or what we want it to be.
  8. Mistress_Renata Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2000
    star 4
    Mmm...I still think QG let him off too easy. After all, if he'd realized his mistake, why did he wait until AFTER he'd gotten kicked off the Planetary council before petitioning to be reinstated? It was easy for him to change his mind when he was a nobody...his commitment would have been more credible if he'd come to the decision after that discussion with Cerasi, while he was still in a position of power. Then he would have been sacrificing something important.

    --Renata
  9. ValedaKor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2000
    star 5
    Ah, Renata, I see your point. That would certainly have made a more powerful statement, and a more powerful lesson: it's even more important to evaluate yourself when you've reached a point in your life which might be considered the top, rather than if you find yourself at the bottom, with nowhere to go.

    Obi-Wan should have chosen that moment to decide if being a leader was indeed his personal destiny, or whether he should turn back to the Jedi path. Would that have been a difficult decision? We'll never know, since Jude Watson chose a different journey for our young man.

    But I can see QG staying out of this. This is a decision that OB1 would have had to make on his own. Anything else could have been construed as interference -- by a headstrong young teenager.

  10. naw ibo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 1999
    star 5
    You know though, I don't think that was really the most important thing for Obi-Wan to learn at that point. He wasn't shown to be letting it really go to his head now that he was in power. In the situation Obi-Wan did end up finding himself in, with nothing, many people would not have gone to the Jedi, to Qui-Gon for help. Many would not want to admit their failure. Personal pride would have stood in their way, with horrible consequences for Melida/Daan. That is an important lesson as well, probably more important for Obi-Wan as he has been characterized throughout these books.

    Also, one has to consider what would the Council and Qui-Gon's withholding acceptance any longer have really accomplished? If the lesson of reevaluating oneself when in power was to be learned from the situation, the time for learning it had passed, the situation was over. It would simply have seemed petty. It would have seemed like a grudge and the insights Obi-Wan had been learning from the situation would have been lost.

    These are experienced Jedi Masters, he is a child, one who had lived most of his life basically in a very sheltered environment. His choice was wrong but was basically a noble one, coming from a 13 year old.

    I think something that was meant to be shown was that part of the situation was exacerbated because Qui-Gon wasn't communicating very well with Obi-Wan. He could sense Obi-Wan's emotions were being heightened by the situation but he really didn't do anything to help him see it more clearly. I don't mean telling him what to think, which doesn't seem the Jedi way, but guidance. Perhaps simply asking him what he thought and why when he realized Obi-Wan was being influenced, which he realised almost right away. Getting him to start thinking about it, analysing it, instead of just feeling.
  11. Cerassi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2000
    star 1
    Well, the discussion has been going well in here. I have a couple quiestions..really none too serious, just popped in my head.

    How do you prnounce Cerasi (Cerassi in my case hehe)? is it
    sir-ass-eeee
    care-ass-ee
    sare-ass-ee
    sir-ah-see
    care-ah-see
    sare-ah-see
    etc etc...What do you think?

    Secondly, how old is Obi-wan in #12? and how old was he in #1? Around just about 13 and then 14? Something along those lines?
  12. Mistress_Renata Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2000
    star 4
    My choice would be #1, followed by #4. But pronounciation varies by country and by region within country. So, since I don't have to read it out loud, I don't usually worry! :)

    If I remember, in #1 he was a few weeks shy of his thirteenth birthday, and I thought that in either #10 or #11 it said he was 14. So, after M/D, I think he spent most of the rest of the year on probationary status, trying to rebuild things with QGJ. Anyone want to verify this?
  13. ValedaKor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2000
    star 5
    In regards to OB1's age - I believe he's 14. Isn't it his 13th birthday when he receives the stone from Qui-Gon? Or is that 14? I'd need to dig out the books to make sure.
  14. Lagniappe Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 19, 1999
    star 4
    Yeah! I just got number 12! Intriguing cover, no? Qui-gon being tortured...ah... and no doubt it will be our intrepid Obi-wan to the rescue! :)
  15. Mastadge Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 1999
    star 7
    #4 pronunciation

    Deadly Hunter was good, Evil Experiment wasn't, I hope Dangerous Rescue or whatever picks up the pace a little. I'd also like to see Darsha Assant in the Jedi Apprentice books.

    My main complaint about these books is that the Jedi Padawans do have classes and stuff, and it's just too abnormal that Obi-Wan should be having adventure after adventure while his friends are sitting in the temple.
  16. Darth Pipes Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 12, 1999
    star 5
    I've enjoyed the new story arc. Deadly Hunter and Evil Experiment were great. I was worried about the JA series after #8-10 but they've picked up there game. It's good to that they got away from the overused storyline of Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan arriving on some planet, joining a local rebellion, and overthrowing a government.

    For the best JA book, that would be a tough choice. The first two and the sixth one are probably the top three in the series.
  17. ValedaKor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2000
    star 5
    Mastadge, I can see your point about missing out on normal school activities. Maybe Obi-Wan is getting some "home schooling" from Qui-Gon <g>

    #12 is very exciting, a great addition to the series. Love those cliff-hangers! Not that I need them to pique my interest -- I get my hands on these books as soon as they're available. I love this series.

    As to favorites -- Darth Pipes mentioned 1, 2 and 6. I'd agree with him on those, definitely. Number 11 and now number 12 have moved the series in a new direction, and it will be interesting to see how those play out. We've got quite a few years to play with here, if the apparent age of Obi-Wan in TPM is any indication.

    Now, as to least favorites -- I'm throwing this into the mix. #4 Mark of the Crown (with the "secret" heir to the thrown) -- I thought that ended rather abruptly.

    But that's a minor quibble. These books are excellently plotted, and rendered superbly by Jude Watson. It's a pleasure to read them.
  18. Darth Pipes Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 12, 1999
    star 5
    You're right. There are still plenty of years left to write about. I would love to see Jude Watson write a JA novel.
  19. Darth Pipes Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 12, 1999
    star 5
  20. Darth Pipes Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 12, 1999
    star 5
  21. Master Chbel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 6, 2000
    star 4
    My only disappointment with #12 is the so far lack of a *sponsor* for her Force research. Even if it is the barest of hints. (I doubt there would be anything more...)


    Oh, yes, and the fact that #13 isn't out until March. <g>
  22. Cerassi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2000
    star 1
    Well, i haven't gotten the latest book yet but i definently was dissapointed by the art on the cover of the last one. the story was alirght but could have been better. Its straying from the themes that were presented in the first bunch of books. I like reading about Obi-wan's struggle with Qui-gon etc...well anyways cya all later :)

    -Cerassi
  23. ValedaKor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2000
    star 5
    Cerassi, I can see your point about the cover. The last two covers have been somewhat strange, I thought, almost "lurid" in their design. Just IMHO, of course.

    There has been a turnaround in the theme, hasn't there? Now it's Obi-Wan having to be "in charge," whereas we have Qui-Gon reacting to circumstances and dealing only with the consequences of that.

    We'll see how this all plays out. I already have my pre-order in for the next one. LOL
  24. Darth Pipes Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 12, 1999
    star 5
    I liked the artwork on the last two books.

    I think the next JA book is out on March 15th.
  25. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 7
    Hey this is an odd question but Obi Wan is going to approaching fourteen soon enough and start probably thinking about girls.

    Do you think the apprentice series will carry on into Obi Wan's teens and even high school age?

    And what about dear old Qui Gon, is he going to get a romantic interest sometime?
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