Discussion in 'Literature' started by Dawud786, Jan 22, 2014.
Have actually not seen it. I take it you did not like it?
I haven't either.
I just have heard pretty bad things about it. Not necessarily "bad," really, but just less-than-stellar. And I am a little wary of any movie that would have Morgan Freeman as God. Don't get me wrong, the man's a great actor, but God Himself...?
They should have just gotten his voice to play God.
I'd have been fine with that.
Edit: Double post.
We were, but the crux of the discussion comes down to Jedi philosophy on the Force and metaphysics. All things Jedi lead to metaphysics. It's kind of inevitable. In fact...
@Ulicus is it possible to merge this thread with Stepping Into A Larger World? And maybe append the first post with links to posts about certain topics?
Seems to me they eat what is convenient, with no fuss.
yeah i can see them being mostly vegeterian. We know corellians weren't. lol But you see Beru making dinner and it seemed pretty heavy vegetable based.
My question is if Obi-wan was so against eating meat, how did he survive on Tattooine for so long with no plants?
WHERE DID IT SAY THAT?
Didn't Obi-wan love hanging out at a certain diner? Diners aren't really chi chi foodie havens. Food havens for people who like meat and taters, or their equivalent.
I take it you've never heard of a vegan diner...
I imagine a diner on Coruscant is going to have all sorts of clientele and likely is going to be serving all kinds. Herbivores included. Dex, knowing Obi-Wan is a Jedi, could easily have made him food that accorded with Jedi dietary standards if said standards were plant-based. Again, every time we are shown Jedi eating on screen in the films they are eating fruits and veggies.
I don't know what "chi chi foodie havens" are, but being vegan or vegetarianism does not equate to that. The Chicago Diner has been meat free since 1983.
Tattooine isn't lacking in veggies, in case your powers of observation are lacking. Shmi had a bowl of fruit sitting on the table in front of Qui-Gon and Jar-Jar, and I'm pretty sure there were strings of garlic in the background. Aunt Beru was putting endives into that food processor in ANH. Cliegg said the Tuskens nabbed Shmi when she was collecting mushrooms from the vaporators. That's just in the movies. In Kenobi, Obi-Wan is growing some sort of native plant outside his desert hermitage.
I think the Jedi are too smart to needlessly limit their dietary intake to non-animal sources
I would say that if Lucas wanted the jedi to be vegetarians, he did not do a good informing the people playing in his sandbox.
The jedi order seems like a more worldly organisation so I can see them preferring vegetarian food when they are in the "civilisation" sine it is usually cheaper and easier to get by and there is probably many planets that don't have so strict animal rights laws. At the same time they would probably don't have any real problem with eating animal products when they are in the field after all you eat what you get.
Personally I would not be surprised if the majority of the food served in the old jedi temple were vegetarian and grown in their own gardens. Since the old temple was so big it would not surprise me if they actually had levels that were more or less only for farming and livestock-raising of the animals needed for the jedi who needed food in their diet.
Every time we see them eating they are a guest. How many times have we seen them eat? Rations are not meals of choice they are basic proteins and fuel.
Luke likes meat, The Solo's love steak. Who cares?
Again, I think you're missing the points I brought up previously. 2 out of 3 instances of Jedi dining in the films they are guests. The very first instance of Jedi dining ever on screen is with Yoda on Dagobah and he has prepared "rootleaf stew."
Indeed, why project? Is making the observation that any time a Jedi is on screen eating it is fruits and veggies, and noting the monastic warrior orders that gave inspiration to the Jedi are vegetarian, any more of a projection than EU writers just not thinking to connect those dots and assuming Jedi Knights are just like themselves and don't put much, if any, thought into the things they eat?
What do rations have to do with anything BTW? Jedi are routinely issue "food pills." If we have plenty, and I mean plenty, of vegan options out there that are basic carb and protein combos(Clif Bars, Builder Bars, etc) at our current level of technological advancement... what would prevent such things being a very widespread reality in the GFFA? And given that there are athletes, soldiers, etc etc thriving on vegetarian and vegan diets... why would it be unbelievable for Jedi to favor this as a means of not causing unnecessary suffering that they would be keenly aware of in the Force?
I'm asking, what's the chances that EU authors overlooked this because they just weren't connecting the dots?
I think GL did a very piss poor job of laying out what he wanted to hired hands, and most things he just sprang on them when the movies came out. Someone was in the middle of writing a book and then BAM! AOTC comes out and completely karks with what they were doing. I mean, this is the guy that didn't make it clear Jedi only use blue or green lightsabers until AOTC... and thus we have the entire spectrum covered by the Jedi alone in all the post TPM comics up to that point. Adi Gallia had a red blade for Waru's sake!
We project because we're human. We look for some reflection of us in the entertainment of which we partake. Some connection, something in common. We want to relate to the characters whose adventures and lives we're sharing.
Now, I'm not saying that Dawud is projecting, and is this the most important of issues? No. Certainly not. However, there's no harm in asking the question, no harm in gauging the opinions of others to see if you're the only one who picked up on this. Now, as I said before, the situation feels inconclusive to me. Maybe the Jedi were intended to be vegetarian, and maybe they weren't. But the fact that there is that wiggle room there understandably allows for viewers to draw the conclusions that best relate to their experience with the evidence given. Asking the question, considering the idea...these aren't conversations that need to be shut down. If Luke likes meat, he's not less of a hero for his dietary preferences. If Obi-Wan doesn't, that doesn't make him holier than thou. But there is something here, something worth considering even if you don't entirely agree with the theory being put forward. Someone cares, if only a little. And there's no reason to dismiss it as though it doesn't deserve a seat at the table.
I'm not dismissing. Jacen was a vegetarian.
More than anything, I think the Jedi had clean diets. But they are also ambassadors so for them to reject a certain may be taken as an insult. Therefore I suggest that whatever made them feel the most balanced is probably what they ate and varied widely from one species to another.
In the Clone War books Anakin loves some sort of meat stew with bread and butter. Obi-wan is more of light eater, but likes his nightcap. Padme seems to be a vegetarian. Her mother only served her vegetables and the fruit was her favorite, a Shuura fruit.
Mara loved meat. Jana eats Neff steaks.
It is a preference. And still all Jedi are extremely fit and I don't see them eating junk food.
Here's the thing I'm getting at, the EU is kind of irrelevant to what I'm putting forward. You can quote that all day. I know it well enough to know the EU does not depict the Jedi as such. I'm saying, it's very much a potential oversight. Jedi as ambassadors is kind of a funny thing, because they are a known quantity in the GFFA. If you're a being that's important enough to be getting Jedi ambassadors sent to you, especially within the Republic, chances are you're going to be well aware of Jedi habits. Within the Republic the Jedi would have been so well known, it would be on the level that Shaolin monks were known in China and that they are vegetarian.
What we know is that in every instance a Jedi is shown eating on camera, it's fruits and veggies. Most critical here is Yoda's rootleaf stew and the old Databank entry that straight up says Yoda ate the plants of Dagobah. I think it's safe to assume that's not a dietary habit he just came upon when arriving in that swamp, since wilderness survival would perhaps warrant a more flexible attitude towards your diet if that was your only concern. So it stands to reason this is how he ate at the Jedi Temple. We also see Anakin eating fruit with Padme and Qui-Gon likewise with a bowl of fruit right under his nose at Shmi's.
I think it more likely our authors simply overlooked this possibility and projected their own dietary habits upon the Jedi, without taking into consideration the similarities between their philosophy and those it was derived from in the real world.
I don't think the EU has done a particularly good job of depicting that either. I mean, just in FOTJ alone it seemed like Luke and Ben were eating burgers and fries or chips almost every time they sat down for a meal on the Jade Shadow.
If you insist. By those pictures it seems like Anakin likes fruit.
As for Ben he seems to do whatever he feels like. Luke and Mara spoiled him.
The only one I could see choosing organism is Leia for some reason. She never seemed like a big eater.
I don't like the way he's looking at that pear.
Also, if Obi Wan is anything to go by a nice bit of hard booze on the side (in the middle of a mission no less) isn't unheard of.
Do we actually know what he ordered there? Or has the booze thing always been an assumption run with by fans and EU authors?
Well, it was in a little glass and fluorescent blue, though I'll be fair and assume that it's not absinthe.
Personally, I think a lot of Obi Wan's actions and behavior make a bit more sense if you assume he's at least a little bit drunk throughout the movie.
Fixed it for you.
Obi-Wan wasn't actually sensing the destruction of Alderaan, just feeling the onset of a hangover from his time in Chalmun's cantina.