PT Jedi=humble?!?!?!

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by darthbarracuda, Nov 18, 2012.

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  1. darthbarracuda Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2012
    star 2
    So the Jedi are supposed to be a very humble order of monks that are centered around the Force, almost worship it.

    But then why do they have this gigantic temple on Coruscant that is awe-inspiring, and a fabulous interior? If I were just the average-joe in the galaxy, i'd be pretty jealous of the Jedi.

    I mean, they are cut off from society. It seems like the Jedi are "higher" on the social scale, because they have a connection with the Force. Only..."special"...individuals can be Jedi. Only they can be a Jedi, and live in the Temple, etc.

    If the Jedi are so humble then shouldn't they live in a lowly area?

    What makes the Jedi so fit to be part of politics? How did they come to be an integral part of galactic society?

    Once again, if I were just some average citizen, I'd be like "So there's the Jedi and Sith and they are constantly fighting each other, which seems pretty ridiculous. They are a bunch of fanatics who have no real scope on reality and who worship this so called "force". What gives them the right of being an integral part of galactic society?!"

    IMO, the Jedi order was completely corrupt by TPM.
  2. Jobertus Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 3
    Being that you're a Sith, I'm literally shocked, just shocked that you see the Jedi as corrupt.
    thesevegetables likes this.
  3. Darth_Kiryan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 2009
    star 4
    And there is no way that the Sith can be that corrupt, eh?
    thesevegetables likes this.
  4. darthbarracuda Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2012
    star 2
    I never said that the Sith weren't corrupt or anything. Their way of life revolves around being corrupt, backstabbing, gaining power. But the Jedi are supposed to be their opposites! So why does it seem like they are corrupt and not humble?
  5. Valairy Scot Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    The public areas of the Temple (assuming there is a public area) is grand - so's the White House. Though we do NOT know for use, private rooms are probably far more humble. I don't think there is any definitive word on accomodation within the Temple.
    thesevegetables likes this.
  6. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Knowing how the Jedi ended up in that position requires at least a little knowledge of the history of the Jedi. Ben tells us that "for a thousand generations, the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic"- it seems logical that the Republic would eventually give them resources to fulfill this role, including a base.
    thesevegetables likes this.
  7. thesevegetables Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2012
    star 4
    So true. Public stuff requires some spectacle. It just does. Look at all those "communist" countries. They preach being spartan and form over function, but really?
    Valairy Scot, I've read some books about Obi-Wan's teenage years, and while communal areas in the Temple are grand, individual rooms are not. Obi-Wan's quarters consist of a single room with a sleeping couch and some trinkets. He doesn't have many personal possesions, either.
  8. Darth_Kiryan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 2009
    star 4
    sorry. sarcasm.
    thesevegetables likes this.
  9. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    It's meant for meditation, reflextion, housing thousands of Jedi, hosting the Archives and historical artifacts of the Order. I'd say it's size is understandable. You can see in the movies that the temple is mostly empty and that their rooms are simple and indeed humble, without any possessions.

    Why? And here I thought that they went on missions to mantain peace for that same society...

    Are they special? Yes. Are they "higher"? No.

    The Jedi are humble, but that's not all they are. They are peacekeepers, embassadors, among many other things. In order for them to do their job, they need to have intel banks, archives, training rooms, etc, etc...

    They swore to serve the Republic.

    And who are you to say they aren't?
    Valairy Scot and thesevegetables like this.
  10. thesevegetables Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2012
    star 4
    For two thousand years of civilization, the Church has been a very powerful part of society, sometimes the most powerful, dicating life and being in charge. Who gives these crazies who believe in Jesus/Allah/the goddess/the Moai/the Buddha/the blah blah blah the right to be the most powerful institution of society?
    Yet they are.
    This isn't unrealistic.
  11. Jobertus Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 3
    I think that the Temple has been in existence for many millenia going back to before the Golden age of the Republic (1000 BBY to 19 BBY), at the time of the Ruusan reformations (of the Republic circa 1000 BBY) the only Supreme Chancellors were Jedi, because the Sith were a much larger organization and were more prevalent around the galaxy. During this time the Jedi were the main "force" holding the Republic together in the face of various variations of Sith Empire's.

    Jedi do not have very many possessions and their rooms within the Temple are very humble, the other "grander" stuff is just for show as opposed to being emblematic of what the Jedi are all about.

    At the time of the PT, the Jedi are not in control of Gallactic politics, they serve the Republic, the grandeur of their Temple is due to the happenings of another time and represent what the Jedi have meant to the Republic and civilization in particular throughtout the ages. Jedi are preservers of the peace and are sent by the Senate to mediate disputes, it is only through the machinations of the Sith that the Jedi turn from peace keepers to peace makers. Darth Bane destroyed the Sith of old and secretly went into obscurity to rebuild the Sith under the Rule of Two, which meant to take the Republic and the Jedi Order down from within and from the shadows and make the Sith seem like a mythical evil of a different age when they were very real, very potent, and even more dangerous.

    I think it depends on the particular Jedi and perhaps event he age of a particular Jedi as to whether they are humble or not. Qui-Gon was humble, as was Obi-Wan, Anakin was not humble--I think it was just his youth, coupled with Darth Sidious' manipulating him which brought out the worst of his arrogance.

    In the PT, the Jedi try specifically to stay out of the political arena, which is made difficult if not impossible by the Sith, but I think the Jedi largely succeeded in not affecting the decisions of the Senate or the governing of the Republic.
  12. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    [IMG]

    Very showy if you live in an Ikea store or something :p
    Alexrd likes this.
  13. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 6
    Bought this ottoman from Ikea I did hmm..........and look at that Norwegian wood bench to his left. Is that a drinking fountain next to it?

    Give me a love sack in the middle of that room, an X box and widescreen TV and I'm set. Oh, and a wet bar under the far window.
    DarthBoba likes this.
  14. Attariel Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2012
    star 1
    Ok it isnt that the Jedi are supposed to be incredibly humble, they serve the republic and they are not to seek power. They are supposed to be a symbol of hope and the temple is a reflection of the symbol they are supposed to be. The temple kind of makes up for what they give up too. They are part of the politics because they serve the republic and are often sent places diplomates dont want to go and they handle several negotiations for the republic that could turn south easy. I get that it does seem like the Jedi are an elitist group but it doesnt work that way when you think about how the order is not restricted to any particular race. You should take a look at the book The Jedi Path. It explains what the Jedi are and how they function as an order better than what I can do.
  15. -NaTaLie- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    The Jedi are certainly not perfect, but they aren't corrupt either. They live humbly, not owing any property as individuals. They are taken away from their families as babies (I assume) and are raised to place their duty before any personal attachments (something that Anakin can't do). They serve the Republic as much as they can.

    However, they're indeed too removed from day-to-day life (they even sit in a real ivory tower). Their non-interference in the politics prevented them from noticing the rise of corruption and the Sith influence in the senate.

    The non-attachment rule has a downside, too. If they had close relationships with regular people they'd have a better understanding of what's going on in the galaxy and maybe even be more effective in defending justice instead of waiting for permission from the Senate.

    So, corrupt? No. But blind, arrogant, complacent - yes.
  16. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    Correction: The Jedi Council (not the Jedi in general) gathers in an "ivory tower". The Jedi aren't removed from day-to-day life due to their daily work (missions, investigations, etc).
    Valairy Scot likes this.
  17. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    Kinda loling at Jedi Temple=expensive. Everyone's tracking that it was built literally a thousand years before TPM and is mostly self-sufficient, right? And that the guys who live there are literally the only thing responsible for the pre-TPM Republic Golden Age, right?

    I'd say the Republic's seen its investment back about eleventybillion fold.
  18. -NaTaLie- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    Yes, but the Council sends them on the missions. Qui-Gon always argued with the Council and we know he was a down to earth guy. Was the order too dogmatic for him? (i.e. don't want to train Anakin because he's too old even though he's clearly extremely talented). I wish his beef with the council was explained more.
  19. Attariel Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2012
    star 1
    I would like to know more about why Qui-Gon had such issue with the council too. I mean he is called a Grey jedi a lot but that is cause he uses the force to get things to go his way when he is trying to get a job done. Like the chance dice, which was clearly supposed to be loaded, he used the force so it would land on him winning Anakin if he won the race instead of Shmi.
    -NaTaLie- likes this.
  20. Valairy Scot Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Qui-Gon elevated his own "hearing" of the Force above any other user out there. Of course, probably he was right very often, but c'mon, he could not have been the only Jedi to actually "hear" the Force but he sure seemed to think so.
  21. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    obviously the wishes of the Council were to constraining for Qui-Gon and he followed his own path. Regardless of that I think he is an excellent example of the humility of the Jedi. While Obi-Wan seemed to grow up thinking that there were lesser beings and "pathetic lifeforms" Qui-Gon never put himself above anyone else and even saw the redeeming qualities in someone like Jar Jar.
  22. -NaTaLie- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    Obi-Wan was a padawan of an unconventional Jedi and probably felt he needed to be more serious. Or at least, he thought so when he was young, he seems to mellow a bit later (drinking in the bar, being friends with Dex and Cody, and generally feeling good about adventuring).
  23. Narutakikun Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2012
    star 4
    There is kind of a chain of failure here.

    Yoda trained Dooku (turned to the dark side) , who trained Qui-Gon (disobeyed the Council constantly), who trained Obi-Wan (not particularly humble, insisted on training an obviously unstable student whose many failings he turned a blind eye to), who trained Anakin (obvious), who trained Ahsoka (we'll see).

    It seems the thread of Jedi we follow happen to be a particularly not-too-humble crowd; and one prone to trouble.
  24. Narutakikun Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2012
    star 4
    DarthRelaxus likes this.
  25. Julius Vernon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2012
    star 3
    I think there are sound indicators of humility among the Jedi (clothing, obedience to the Code and the Republic, willingness to learn and grow), but there are also indicators of hubris. They seemed to think they could hold the Republic together when the real problems were taking place in the Senate. They made no contingency plans for this Sith presence they became aware of but couldn't identify. They relied on the way things had been traditionally performed rather than adapting to a socio-political environment that had evolved into something they weren't equipped to deal with.

    In my estimation one of the central themes of the PT films is that the Jedi had made mistakes that had allowed for the decimation of the Order. These mistakes were partially due to hubris and partially due to naivete.
    DarthRelaxus and StampidHD280pro like this.
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