Jedi=Munchkin

Discussion in 'Games: RPG & Miniatures' started by Daemon, Nov 25, 2002.

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  1. Daemon Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2002
    star 2
    I was looking at the Power of the Jedi sourcebook, and it looks like the Jedi are becoming even more uber-powerful. Isn't this out of hand? Hardly anyone plays them in-character, and the bonuses and some of the prestige classes even encourage power gaming. Little outta hand if ya ask me...
  2. Maj_Odo-Taji Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 12, 2001
    star 1
    So if they don't play them in-character, perhaps a few unfortunate run-ins with some tougher opponents will convince them to 'straighten up and fly right'. Or maybe they'll see the light and change characters...


    Regards,
    Maj-Odo Taji
  3. Fingorfin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2001
    star 4
    Every game has some class that attracts the munchkins. It is up to the GM to make sure that the player does not get away with it in a serious campaign. Jedi are intended to be more powerful than most other characters, that is the nature of the Star Wars universe. Playing in character is the best way to avoid the problems associated with munchkinism.

    But there is something to be said for munchkins; occasionally it is fun to put together the most powerful party you can and blow stuff up. Good stress relief.
  4. Daemon Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2002
    star 2
    Our GM put us in the Rebellion era just so we couldn't be Jedi, since a lot of us are more munchkin then not, and he hates the Jedi stats even if a responsible person plays them
  5. Gorin_Zachian Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2002
    star 4
    Just Like the pladin in D&D 3rd Ed.

    It is the Most powerful class by far, but limited Due to their Code, and what they can do.

    It's all about the Gm, if he ignores the Strictures on them then their insanely good, if not, then they are balenced.
  6. Jansons_Funny_Twin Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2002
    star 6
    I try to avoid playing a Jedi at all costs anyway.

    I mean, with all that they can do, I would have so much trouble keeping it all straight.

    I stick to Soldiers. i have two options, run away or blaze away, non of that Jedi bull. :p
  7. Lordban Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2000
    star 5
    Ah, but observance of the Jedi code is very funny to play. As for those who want to play a Jedi just to be powerful, well, seeking power for itself and displaying power when it's not needed at all is quite close to the Dark Side, isn't it ? ;)
  8. Jansons_Funny_Twin Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2002
    star 6
    That's also why I like being a soldier, no morals are set upon me by an order.

    DSPs are nothing to me. [face_mischief]

    :p
  9. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9
    That's also why I like being a soldier, no morals are set upon me by an order.

    DSPs are nothing to me.


    I'm with you. :)

    I love my character. 7th Soldier/1st Elite Trooper. I just stand there, arms folded, until combat starts. Ambidexterity, Two-Weapon Fighting and Quick-Draw are your friends... ;)

    0 to 5 ranged attacks in free action speed... ;)
  10. Jansons_Funny_Twin Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2002
    star 6
    Don't forget Rapid Shot and Multi Shot.

    When you absolutely, positively need to kill everything in the spaceport. :cool:
  11. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 25, 2000
    star 6
    And you're saying that Jedi are munchkins?

    The single biggest thing that limits a Jedi is the fact that all of their Force powers run on VPs. I've found that a Jedi who's all buffed up with Battlemind, Enhance Ability, etc. doesn't have much left over in the way of VPs to actually last long in a fight. It gets even worse when the Jedi buffs up for what he thinks is the BBEG and it turns out to be the LBEG instead [face_devil]
  12. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9
    And you're saying that Jedi are munchkins?

    Well, they CAN be. If they're played as power characters who don't follow the code. Then there's no rules governing them. "Oh I got a DSP? I just use a Force point to burn it."

    Soldiers can also be like that -- but they're designed to fight and kill to begin with. My guy's actually a quasi-tech -- he pumped a lot of points into Repair and Craft skills. But he's pumped on Two-Weapons and the Multi/Rapid/Quick feats because he's surrounded by people who use melee weapons -- he wants to shoot everyone else (or around them).
  13. Spike_Spiegel Former FF Administrator Former Saga Mod

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2002
    star 6
    Weird. . .my character, an Ewok Jedi Guardian actually IS a Jedi Munchkin. . .

    I do agree. But it strongly depends with the player. I hate it when somebody chooses a Jedi class and fails to get in character. My character doesn't draw his sabre until the last possible moment and strives to make violence the last possible option, thats how you are supposed to play a Jedi.

    The VP drain also equalizes somewhat the Jedi classes with other classes. I mean, every Force power drains VP and that is not to be taken lightely.

    In fighting terms, my old (now deceased) character, a Noghri soldier 7/elite soldier 3 was faaaar more poerful that any Jedi in our campaing and much more prone to get into battle.










    See you Space Cowboy. . .
  14. Daemon Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2002
    star 2
    Soldiers can be munchkins, but they are worthy munchkins. Jedi lug around weapons half the size of blasters that do twice the damage, one of the new Jedi prestige classes adds like 1d6 so many levels to their unarmed attack, they can deflect blasters for free now, with a lightsaber, and even with a pair of mittens! (okay, so they're gauntlets, but it sounds funny when you say mittens.) With soldiers, you don't have to be munchkins, you can choose other feats that make you versatile.
  15. Tremaniac Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 26, 2002
    star 3
    It's not much different now than it was with the old WEG system. Reasonable characters started with a smuggler, tech, or bounty hunter. Power mad munchkins went with Jedi, even though at the start of the game Jedi were about as powerful as a Quadrapalegic Squib. They still held on though, convinced thier Jedi would someday be powerful enough to pimp slap Palpy with impunity. Meanwhile, while they were paying double points to bring up force powers, and not bringing up any other skills. All the while the rest of the group is investing heavy in Persuasion, Con, Dodge, Search, Hide, and Blaster Specializations. The end result, the Jedi has nothing but force powers to show for thier trouble, while the rest of the group actually start to resemble wel balanced characters.
  16. Lordban Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2000
    star 5
    A balanced WEG Jedi was worth its characters point, though. You didn't really need to spend all your CPs in Force powers. I built a Jedi who didn't use the Force on the regular basis, because I preferred to rely on Con, Persuade and on a general basis skills that avoided having to fight or suffering from blows. I seldom fought, preferring to let the rest of the team do the job when they could do it alone. I wasn't specially powerful when I did fight, but I had "the power of the options" - I loved performing unexpected maneuvers.
  17. JediBendu Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 13, 1999
    star 3
    I ran a game using the TORG system where the Jedi was far and away more powerful than every other character put together.

    He could have obliterated them in seconds.

    It was a great game, because combat wasn't about killing the baddies, it was about advancing the story.

    Power didn't matter, even the characters with fewer XP had as much role-play time and that's what made the game good.

    Also everyone knew the fate of the Jedi from the start. I was running an alternate Rise of the Empire, and the Jedi was killed by Vader at the end of the trilogy. It was a great scene when he stopped fighting and accepted his fate.
  18. Angel_9 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2002
    star 1
    Yuo havn't played untill you have taken an X-wing down the gullet of a SSD, with no, I repeat NO, force skill and lad that lucky pot shot with a torp to blow out the main bridge deflector....


    .....then get hit by friendly fire on the way out.


    And people say that Mon Cals are good Ship drivers. I'll belive it when i see it.

    Oh and yes Jedi are a Muchkin class.
  19. ISD_Devastator Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 2002
    star 4
    I think that in terms of weapons, Jedi are not munckin (I remember that "munckin" is a mechwarrior-term and means 'too many weapons'?), because a Jedi doesn't need any more weapons than his/her/its Lightsaber and maybe a backup-Blaster pistol. But the Force... Very munchkin. "Is that guy over there looking at me? I'll destroy his brains. *dice rolling* Great :). I'll take a blue milk. It's free. Oh, thank you." Ha. :) I love being a Dark Jedi.
  20. Lordban Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2000
    star 5
    Wait until you start seeing your abilities decrease every time you advance a level ;) (if you're playing D20, of course ; D6 Dark Jedi REALLY are Munchkins)
  21. Tremaniac Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 26, 2002
    star 3
    I should point out that under d6 rules Dark Jedi were forbidden. Remember, 6 dark side points, and you've got 2 session to seek redemption, or hand the character over. Unless I was running for a Dark Jedi player (one only) specific, that rule was enforced to it's absolute truest intent. I still believe that SW is about heroes. If my group wants villiany, I tell them I'll run Cyberpunk, Recon, D&D, or a slew of other games that are morally ambigious. If they want to run 'tweeners, I'll even do that, but I'm loathe to allow outright evil in my games. That's what my NPCs are for!
  22. Lordban Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2000
    star 5
    SW can also be pretty interesting when the story is that of a fallen hero. The perfect example being Anakin Skywalker / Darth Vader.
  23. Tremaniac Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 26, 2002
    star 3
    Yes, but the whole theory behind the fallen hero in SW is that eventually they find redemption. Most twinkers who go for the Dark Jedi feel no need for redemption, as they see nothing wrong with thier actions as a dark jedi. Hell, I'm sure if they accidentally went to the light (heroic self sacrific in the presence of a light side jedi), they'd drop to thier knees, raise thier fists to the air and scream NOOOOOO!!! like it was some grand tragedy. Then they'd go be extra evil to get back to the darkside.
  24. ISD_Devastator Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 2002
    star 4
    "they see nothing wrong with thier actions as a dark jedi"
    That's right. If someone stands on my way and doesn't understand to move, I have every right to force-throw him through the nearest wall.
    I'm a d6 Dark Jedi. I got now 4 DSPs, and we have altered the rules, so we can have as many DSPs as we get. We just don't get a point for every single evil action (even trying to harm someone is evil, as the rules say), but as the GM gives them. Massacre and ultra-violence always gives a point. Otherwise, I'd have about 40 DSPs (four game sessions w/this character).

    Example: I have now control=9+1 sense&alter=8(max 9*6+1=55) and difficulty rating of 20 or 30 is quite easy to exceed. And killing a being of different race, and who is a complete stranger: diff 20. He's dead. Gimme on more DSP, which makes killing that much easier. Munch, munch.

    But we can't do good deeds, like helping people over the road. <Sniff> :)
  25. Tremaniac Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 26, 2002
    star 3
    I ran for a dark jedi once, and our house rules on it more closely resembled the effects of Dark Side Points on an individual. Basically, the more dark side points you have, the more the dark side tries to take away from you. Palpatine towards the end needed a new clone, what, every 6 months or so, because the dark side kept eating away at him. So the rule effect consisted on bleedoff (determined by a Jedis control or Perception). The difficulty was based on your DSP total. In the tens, easy, the twenties, moderate, 30 or more, you better have a good control. 40 was a diff 30 control roll. No character points or Force points allowed. If you succeeded, you lost 1d6 DSP, given as sacrifice to the darkside. If you didn't, you had to roll control again, failure meant losing a D6 to an ability of your choice (this was originally random, but I felt kinda bad for the players), Force powers can be chosen as well for sacrifice (some Jedi would rather lose Alter than an Attribute die, believing they can get it back easier at a later point, heh heh heh, like I was going to leave a Dark Jedi handbook around for them to learn from!).
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