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Jedi - Overpowered?

Discussion in 'Games: RPG & Miniatures' started by -Kyle-Katarn-, Jul 2, 2003.

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  1. Jedi Merkurian

    Jedi Merkurian New Films Thread Reaper and Rumor Naysayer star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 25, 2000
    Prelimenary ideas: Soldier 8/Martial Arts Master 6, or just a plain ol' Soldier 14.
     
  2. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001
    Everyone should be ready to go by the end of today, okay?
     
  3. Jedi Merkurian

    Jedi Merkurian New Films Thread Reaper and Rumor Naysayer star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 25, 2000
    When does today end?
     
  4. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001
    Whenever it hits midnight-ish in your part of the world... ;)
     
  5. Jedi Merkurian

    Jedi Merkurian New Films Thread Reaper and Rumor Naysayer star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 25, 2000
    Sorry, I'm used to end of today meaning "end of business," which is relative to where you are located.
     
  6. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001
    Okay, here ya go...

    Dor'el Prime, Givin Jedi Guardian 5/ Jedi Weapon Master 3/ Jedi Artisan 3/ Master Duelist 3.

    STR 10, DEX 20, CON 17, INT 18, WIS 12, CHA 8, 98/17 VP/WP, Spd: 10, BAB +12, REP +5, Init +5, FP 15, DSP 0.

    Bluff +5, Craft [Lightsaber] +17, Jump +4, Knowledge [Jedi Lore] +12, Tumble +11, Battlemind +20, Enhance Ability +20, Enhance Senses +18, Farseeing +18, Force Strike +16, Heal Self +16, Move Object +21

    Don't post your defense, feats or equipment yet. More fun that way.

    Also, calculate your VP in the following way:
    1st level == Max, each additional level == average die roll (e.g. 5.5 for 1d10, 4.5 for 1d8 or 3.5 for 1d6) per level.
     
  7. Tremaniac

    Tremaniac Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 26, 2002
    See, now some people may see that as overpowered, I see a severe lack of regular skills. A decent bluff for a beginning character, but what happens when it's diplomacy? Here's the other thing, a character like that should be ripe for the killing when the Empire comes around because they focused so much on force powers, they are almost forced to rely on them. Which means hunting them is that much easier.
     
  8. Jedi Merkurian

    Jedi Merkurian New Films Thread Reaper and Rumor Naysayer star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 25, 2000
    Here we go. I had some fun with Soldiers:

    Gorwooken AKA "Gor-Gore!" Male Wookie Soldier 8/Martial Artist 6
    Str 22, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 13, Wis 10, Chr 8; VP/WP 118/16
    Balance +9, Climb +20, Intimidate +11, Knowledge (Kashyyyk) +10, Jump +13, Knowledge (tactics) +8, Sense Motive +7, Spot +5, Survival +5, Tumble +11

    Djozan Male Human Soldier 8/Martial Artist 6
    Str 20, Dex 14, Con 17, Int 14, Wis 12, Chr 10; VP/WP 118/17
    Balance +18, Bluff +17, Intimidate +11, Knowledge (melee combat styles) +13, Knowledge (tactics) +13, Sense Motive +18, Spot +12, Tumble +18

    Aldaric Male Human Soldier 14
    Str 14, Dex 20, Con 17, Int 14, Wis 12, Chr 10; VP/WP 124/17
    Astrogate +12, Computer Use +12, Intimidate +17, Knowledge (tactics) +19, Knowledge (streetwise) +9, Pilot +22, Profession (soldier) +9, Spot +10, Tumble +14

    EDIT: Tremaniac: My thoughts exactly!
     
  9. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001
    See, now some people may see that as overpowered, I see a severe lack of regular skills. A decent bluff for a beginning character, but what happens when it's diplomacy? Here's the other thing, a character like that should be ripe for the killing when the Empire comes around because they focused so much on force powers, they are almost forced to rely on them. Which means hunting them is that much easier.

    But that's exactly the point of the exercise. This is supposed to be the "munchkiny" Jedi -- hence, if you see something like this -- and the character isn't a Jedi Master or Jedi Instructor -- there's something wrong... ;)
     
  10. Tremaniac

    Tremaniac Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 26, 2002
    Ok, so there's this Jedi, a lightsabre wielding bad@$$ with a chip on his shoulder and more force points than brains. He's also so decked out in force powers he's basically lacking any social grace, nevermind a basic street survival sense. When the Empire comes a knocking, do you think they won't use my Mook/Ship/Explosives idea? So I wipe out 50-2000 civvies. Jedi are dangerous. No one would've died if the jedi just surrendered. See, Jedi are obviously the bad guys here, as they force us to use extreme measures every time they resist. And they always resist.
    Damn, my first level Cerean Jedi Consular could survive the purge better than someone double digits higher than me. If that's not irony!
     
  11. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001
    Trem -- I'm not quite sure I understand your point?
     
  12. Tremaniac

    Tremaniac Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 26, 2002
    I guess the point is that regardless of how "powerful" a jedi is there most definately is a time in the universe when almost all jedi go down. These jedi that are made with godlike force abilities are going to be the first wave to go down. Because they really can't hide and thier first instinct will be to go for the saber. Not conductive to long life.
     
  13. Jedi Merkurian

    Jedi Merkurian New Films Thread Reaper and Rumor Naysayer star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 25, 2000
    Darn! Tremaniac beat me to the punch again! :p
     
  14. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001
    I guess the point is that regardless of how "powerful" a jedi is there most definately is a time in the universe when almost all jedi go down. These jedi that are made with godlike force abilities are going to be the first wave to go down. Because they really can't hide and thier first instinct will be to go for the saber. Not conductive to long life.

    Right, but your argument is irrelevant in the fact that this is NOT an actual character designed to play, merely to kill another munchkin PC in a duel.

    Clearly you'd be correct if someone tried to RP this character in an actual game, but that's not the point of this exercise.
     
  15. Jedi Merkurian

    Jedi Merkurian New Films Thread Reaper and Rumor Naysayer star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 25, 2000
    "Clearly you'd be correct if someone tried to RP this character in an actual game, but that's not the point of this exercise."

    Ah, but it IS the point, or at least one point. Namely, a Jedi who shines in a single arena (combat, in this case) suffers accordingly when they're out of their element; social skills, in this instance.

    That the Jedi is not the ruler of all matters combative is actually a side argument, a fallacy I look forward to disproving. As an aside, none of the characters I've made are designed as "Jedi Killers."

    I'll concede the point that a well-designed and well-balanced Jedi will flourish in several different areas. However, that's what well-balanced characters do. Such characters will then be outshone in specific areas by specialists. However, that's what specialists do.
     
  16. Jedi Merkurian

    Jedi Merkurian New Films Thread Reaper and Rumor Naysayer star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 25, 2000
    Did we scare 'em off? [face_shocked]
     
  17. Mr44

    Mr44 VIP star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 21, 2002
    Yeah, come on!

    You have thousands of viewers who are waiting on the edge of their seat to see this through.

    (well, maybe just me, but still.... Interesting topic!)
     
  18. JoinTheSchwarz

    JoinTheSchwarz JC Head Admin & Community Manager star 8 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2002
    Get ready to rrrrumble!!!!
    C'mon, someone had to say it! :p


    Interesting duel...
     
  19. -Kyle-Katarn-

    -Kyle-Katarn- Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Aug 8, 2002
    Eh? I thought you two were going to fight, and let me watch, since I don't have all the books necessary to make the best soldier-type =p. Not to mention it takes me 30 minutes to reach this forum thanks to my 56k.

    Oh well, I'll join, using only the RCRB...hmm...

    Human Scoundrel 2/Soldier 5/Bounty Hunter 9

    VP/WP 135/16

    Def 26 (+11 class, +5 Dex)

    Str 10 Dex 20 Con 16 Wis 10 Int 10 Cha 8

    Fort +11 Ref +13 Will +5

    Atk +14/+14/+14/+9/+4 (4d8+3, mcraftx3 hvy repeating blaster multifire). OR Atk +20/+15/+10 (DC 18 Stun, Heavy Blaster Pistol)

    Skills: Bluff +6, Gather Information +5, Hide +19, Intimidate +5, Listen +6, Move Silently +19, Pilot +5, Spot +15, Treat Injury +10.

    Feats: Track, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Multishot, Improved Initiative, Improved Critical (hvy. repeating blaster), Armor proficiency (light, med), Weapon Group Profiency (Simple, blaster, rifle, heavy, vibro).

    Target Bonus +5 vs my target (YOU).

    Sneak Attack +4d6.

    Equipment:

    Mcraft x3 Heavy Repeating Blaster
    Heavy Blaster Pistol
    Stun Grenade x2

    And, if I'm allowed...(which I doubt I am):

    Ysalamiri in Ysalamiri life-preserver backpack (10kg, 10-meter bubble of non-force).

    Hmm...I might just stand a chance =p.
     
  20. Jedi Merkurian

    Jedi Merkurian New Films Thread Reaper and Rumor Naysayer star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 25, 2000
    Great ghu! Am I going to have to make a cheese-weasel Jedi as well?
     
  21. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001
    No, I'm pretty sure I can kill all of them without you making a character... ;)

    Who's gonna be around later?
     
  22. JoinTheSchwarz

    JoinTheSchwarz JC Head Admin & Community Manager star 8 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2002
    Oops, I just noticed:

    You may use Combat Reflexes to make multiple attacks of opportunity on the same person

    Good question. D&D says that you CAN'T make multiple AoO on the same person in a given round and I think that the SWRCR states the same thing. I can't confirm it because my RCR isn't with me at the moment (yeah, I finally got to play and not GM Star Wars!!! :D).
     
  23. Gorin_Zachian

    Gorin_Zachian Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 13, 2002
    You cannot make multiple AoO's on the same person FOR THE SAME THINg. However, if they do two or more actions that provoke attacks of oppertunity, and you have combat relfexes, you may make two (Or more) AoO's on that person.
     
  24. Tremaniac

    Tremaniac Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 26, 2002
    Dp, isn't it more fun to beat a munchkin character with stuff like falling buildings, annoying little traps, and sniper fire from all directions? Not to mention my earlier suggestion with a ship. After all, if you have to whip up a umpteenth level wunderkind to beat this would be harbinger of doom you are justifying his use of uber level characters as well. I mean, after all, how many fourteenth level characters are out there roaming the galaxy?
     
  25. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001
    I'm a 14th level character. Built-up from 1st level. ;)

    But I'm a Soldier/Elite with technical and linguistic leanings... :)
     
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