Jedi - Overpowered?

Discussion in 'Games: RPG & Miniatures' started by -Kyle-Katarn-, Jul 2, 2003.

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  1. Tremaniac Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 26, 2002
    star 3
    Man, doesn't the GM get a little tired of coming up with stuff to challenge you at that level? I can't get a D&D character beyond 15th without the GM pulling out his hair at the roots.
  2. Gorin_Zachian Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2002
    star 4
    Not really. Atr that level the campaign tends to switch, slowly, of course, to less of a combat focused one, and more of an investigateive/leaderhsip position, centered campaign. After all, it's fairly easy for you yourself to go and deal with the rise of a small group of terrorists, but what if you don't know where they are? What if, at the Same Time, you have to Deal with a Global Crisis, Growin Pressure from the Governemnt, and Pirate Raids. You can't be everywhere at once you know.....
  3. Tremaniac Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 26, 2002
    star 3
    Then that's an outright difference in GMing. I think delegating authority is a good thing, but when every NPC around you is either your superior or someone who deserves a Darwin Award, you tend to do things yourself alot. Personally, your way sounds better.
  4. Gorin_Zachian Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2002
    star 4
    Heheh, Well, yes and no. Let's jsut say my players get good at thinking on their feat and being smart, Role-Playing-Wise, Very quick. Otherwise, they die.

    I'm a bit brutal, but i think it produces better role players, and also add a bit of realism to a game that is, inherently, unrealistic.

    Take this, for example. That Terrorist group i mentioned? Well, lets say that you have been delegated the resposability by the NR (after All, your 15th level) to Govern a new planet, recently found, that was seemingly uninhabited. Colony ships rushed to the lush, fertile world, and the burgeoning population had begun to factionalize. Suddenly the delegated governers have political opponents on this world. Then, just as suddenly, a new community center, being built by your opponents to foster public support, is blown up by a bomb. This opposing party works to make it seem like a deliberate act of sabetouge by a member of your faction, and begins to gather a majority support. At the Same time, unknown terrorists strike again, this time, blowing up an orbital facility and destroying your Holo-net, trancivers, leaveing the world cut off from the rest of the NR. As well, it is discovered that natives ARE on the planet, and they don't like you being there.

    Try that one on for size.
  5. Tremaniac Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 26, 2002
    star 3
    I'm most likely one of the few gamers to ever attempt to start up a colony in the New World in Warhammer. I can relate perfectly to that situation. Granted, I was a bad guy, so certain avenues of experimentation were open to me that may not be open to a SW hero. Nothing more screwed up than the GM saying "Oh by the way, your master carpenter died of scurvy on the boat ride over, better make due with apprentences!"
  6. Gorin_Zachian Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2002
    star 4
    I didn't know there was a warhammer RPG!

    I love Warhammer, i play it All the Time (40k BLOWS! Fanatasy all the way!) and play Empire, with three different Empire Armies. What kind of product is this? It's not Mordheim is it?
  7. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9
    Global crisis? HA!

    We're enmeshed in a ten-year scheme involving the Sith Empire that has taken over the Galaxy, the Hapan Consortium (which is the leaders of the Rebellion) on Kamino creating a Clone Army, a galactic crime network who's got the skinny on the REAL enemy (neither of those previous two groups) and the Hidden Enemy.

    Not to mention dealing with those Sith Lords one at a time.

    This is how 14th level characters find fun. 10th level Sith Lords...
  8. Tremaniac Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 26, 2002
    star 3
    Gorin, it's produced by Hogshead Publishing. Or rather it was. The Strat still has a few copies floating around I think. Barring that, you may want to try Wizards Attic site. The RPG is remarkably like the table top game, conversions are incredibly easy. Believe me when I say most of my group considers it better fantasy than traditional D&D.
    DP, it sounds like a blasting good time. Want some advice? Should you find out who the real enemy is, drop a line anonymously to the Sith Lords and let them know they've been played like fiddles. I'm sure nothing pisses a Sithlord off more than knowing he's been a pawn in someone elses scheme.
  9. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9
    DP, it sounds like a blasting good time. Want some advice? Should you find out who the real enemy is, drop a line anonymously to the Sith Lords and let them know they've been played like fiddles. I'm sure nothing pisses a Sithlord off more than knowing he's been a pawn in someone elses scheme.

    We'll see. Considering that my character in particular is probably Enemy of the Galaxy #1 in their eyes, any contact might be hazardous... ;)
  10. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper and Rumor Naysayer

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 25, 2000
    star 6
    Well, I guess I'll go ahead & disclose more about those characters I made:

    Gorwooken AKA "Gor-Gore!" Male Wookie Soldier 8/Martial Artist 6; Init +2; Def 24 (+10 class, +2 Dex, +2 dodge); Spd 10m; VP/WP 118/16; Atk +20/+15/+10 melee (3d4+6/17-20 unarmed) or +16/+11/+6 ranged; SQ Wookie traits, dodge blasters, martial arts improvisation; SV Fort +12, Ref+9, Will +5; SZ M; FP 5; DSP 0; Rep +4; Str 22, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 13, Wis 10, Chr 8.
    Skills: Balance +9, Climb +20, Intimidate +11, Knowledge (Kashyyyk) +10, Jump +13, Knowledge (tactics) +8, Sense Motive +7, Spot +5, Survival +5, Tumble +11
    Feats: Advanced Martial Arts, Armor Proficiency (light) Combat Expertise, Defensive Martial Arts, Echani, Echani Expertise, Heroic Surge, Improved Critical (unarmed), Improved Disarm, Improved Grapple, Improved Martial Arts, Martial Arts, Stava, Stava Expertise, Weapon Group Proficiency (blaster pistols, blaster rifles, primitive weapons, simple weapons, vibro weapons)

    Gor-Gore's routine would go a little something like this:
    Round 1: Rage & charge. As his charge attack, he'll go for an Improved Disarm on the lightsaber. With Stava, he gets to make an extra melee attack, albeit at -5. This shouldn't be a problem, since the Jedi won't have his lightsaber for all those Def bonuses. With Stava Expertise, he gets to add double his Strength bonus to damage when charging [face_shocked] With Heroic Surge, he'll make an Improved Grapple. I defy you to win an opposed grapple check against a raging Wookie :p

    Round 2: With Echani Expertise, Gor-Gore makes a coup de grace vs. the Jedi. Jedi go snap.

    Djozan, Male Human Soldier 8/Martial Artist 6; Init +2; Def 24 (+10 class, +2 Dex, +2 dodge); Spd 10m; VP/WP 118/16; Atk +19/+14/+9 melee (3d4+5/17-20 unarmed) or +16/+11/+6 ranged; SQ Dodge blasters, martial arts improvisation; SV Fort +12, Ref+9, Will +6; SZ M; FP 5; DSP 0; Rep +4;
    Str 20, Dex 14, Con 17, Int 14, Wis 12, Chr 10.
    Skills: Balance +18, Bluff +17, Intimidate +11, Knowledge (melee combat styles) +13, Knowledge (tactics) +13, Sense Motive +18, Spot +12, Tumble +18
    Feats: Advanced Martial Arts, Armor Proficiency (light), Combat Expertise, Defensive Martial Arts, Echani, Echani Expertise, Heroic Surge, Improved Critical (unarmed), Improved Disarm, Improved Grapple, Improved Martial Arts, Ktara, Ktara Expertise, Ktara Mastery, Martial Arts, Weapon Group Proficiency (blaster pistols, blaster rifles, primitive weapons, simple weapons, vibro weapons)

    Tactics:
    Round 1: Let the Jedi come to him. With Ktara, it'll be even easier to relieve him of his lightsaber than Gor-Gore. With his remaining attacks, he could daze the Jedi with Ktara Mastery, beat the papooky out of him with his remaining attacks, or go for the grapple. I think the daze works well [face_devil]

    Round 2: Echani grapple. Jedi go snap.

    I'll have to do Aldaric's tactics later...

    EDIT: Notice that neither of these characters' tactics are Jedi-specific.
  11. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9
    Interesting. I don't recall the exact number, but I'm pretty sure my Defense in HTH combat is somewhere around 43.
  12. Tremaniac Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 26, 2002
    star 3
    Where are the rules for Echani? If I remember correctly that was a martial art taught to Royal Guardsmen. It had something to do with the double bladed force pike I think.
  13. DexRicon Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2003
    star 1
    Echani is covered in the Hero's Guide, along with K'thri, K'Tara, Stava, Teras Kasi, and Wrrusshi. IMHO, those 15 feats (each one has an expertise and mastery) alone make the Hero's Guide worth the money, even though it has no NPCs in it...and I hate coming up with NPCs on my own.
  14. Fingorfin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2001
    star 4
    I've always found that creating NPCs helps me get into the world a little more and sometimes gives me ideas for the campaign. The only pre-gen NPCs I use are characters from the films (on the rare occasions that I use them) and goons like Stormtroopers or Clones.
  15. DexRicon Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2003
    star 1
    I create NPCs for main characters, such as big bad opponents or masters. But the generic ones can be turned into supporting characters easily, such as that Imperial Inquisitor that dogs the Jedi for a few missions until the Jedi kills him or that Bounty Hunter that threatens to kill one PC unless the target surrenders. Great NPCs can make or break a campaign, but I usually don't like going through the headache of creating a decently powerful NPC that I'm planning to kill off in the next playing session.

    Hmm...this gives me a great idea for a new topic...
  16. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper and Rumor Naysayer

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 25, 2000
    star 6
    So I'm guessing that the argument has been put to rest....
  17. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9
    Well, yes and no.

    I think it was proved that my Jedi could punk any of those Soldier wusses you threw at me without breaking much of a sweat (5d8 + 22 or so per lightsaber hit ends your day real quick). HOWEVER, it was also proven that any Jedi so constructed would be so unwieldy to roleplay as a) you'd probably fall to the Dark Side within a few game sessions since all you know is combat and death and b) you'd have no useful skills (and by useful, I mean non-combat).
  18. Tremaniac Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 26, 2002
    star 3
    Yeah your guy was cool, but did he have mirror shades? See, it's just not a God Of Killers character without cool shades. And don't forget to spout off cheesy one liners when you hack and slash away!
  19. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9
    I'm all about the one-liners.

    See the quotes thread... ;)
  20. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper and Rumor Naysayer

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 25, 2000
    star 6
    "(5d8 + 22 or so per lightsaber hit ends your day real quick)."

    You came up with this damage bonus how? Maybe that's a typo.
  21. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9
    Nope, not a typo.

    One of the lightsaber forms is 2x DEX Bonus for damage. I'm already at +5 and can get ANOTHER +3 or +4 (+6 or +8 to DEX via Enhance Ability).

    Plus another +2 for the +2 Mastercraft lightsaber of a 3rd level Jedi Artisan.

    Oh, whoops. Sorry, that's only +20, I doubled the mastercraft bonus too by mistake!
  22. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper and Rumor Naysayer

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 25, 2000
    star 6
    Well, I'll say the question of whether or not to nerf Form IV in my campaign is resolved... [face_shocked]
  23. Jedi_Matt Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 11, 2002
    star 4
    what book are the forms covered in?
  24. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9
    The Lightsaber Form feats are covered in the Hero's Guide.
  25. -Kyle-Katarn- Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 8, 2002
    star 1
    Argh...it takes me years to reach this message board with my 56k.

    Anyways, I just bought the Hero's Guide. I know a perfect way to kill a Jedi, now. As long as we start a long ways away.

    Level 14, was it?

    Level 2 Scout/Level 3 Soldier/Level 9 Sharpshooter

    Can you say 750 meter range? Add a x10 scope and the ranged penalty for firing 750 meters away is reduced to nothing.

    So, let's see. The only Jedi who would have a chance would be one who has Master Speed. And I never see Jedi who go farther than Burst of Speed.

    Even if they use Burst of Speed EVERY TURN, I get 8 full-attacks. If they don't, I get around 75. Yay. Dead Jedi.
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