Jedi - Overpowered?

Discussion in 'Games: RPG & Miniatures' started by -Kyle-Katarn-, Jul 2, 2003.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9
    Can you say 750 meter range? Add a x10 scope and the ranged penalty for firing 750 meters away is reduced to nothing.

    Remember that a scope only reduces range penalties, it does NOT allow you to bypass the maximum range of a weapon which is 10 range increments.
  2. Tremaniac Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 26, 2002
    star 3
    Ok, what's 10 range increments on a blaster rifle? Because with a .50 cal, you can hunt almost to a mile away. That's where stuff like customization comes in handy. Go for the long barrel. On an E-Web!
  3. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9
    Ok, what's 10 range increments on a blaster rifle? Because with a .50 cal, you can hunt almost to a mile away. That's where stuff like customization comes in handy. Go for the long barrel. On an E-Web!

    I believe it's 400 m for a rifle and 300 m for a carbine. E-Webs are 80 m (thus 800 m), but we're talking personal weapon dueling here, not emplacements. ;)
  4. Tremaniac Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 26, 2002
    star 3
    Hold on a sec DP! I'm going to use my absolute favorite arguement in the world to justify using the E-Web in personal battles.
    As a weapon, the E-Web is the SW equivolent of either the Mk-19 or .50 cal. Since the Mk-19 is a grenade launcher, that makes comparison kinda hard. But the .50 cal? Well, both serve the same purpose. Small Group Portable, capable of vehicle mount, ideal for use against light vehicles. Amazing similiarities. So it's pretty safe to assume they are more or less the same (with the E-Web being a blaster of course).
    Now, this came up in my Cyberpunk group a few years ago and it pretty much left me speechless.
    Uber-Killer 1: I want to take my .50 cal with me through the zone.
    GM: It's a vehicle weapon. It's not really configured for personal carry and use.
    Uber-Killer 2: Hold on a sec! Roadblock uses it handheld! And he's the coolest Joe next to Snake Eyes! If he can use it like that, why can't he?
    The more experienced players were literally speechless.
  5. Fingorfin Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2001
    star 4
    Kind of hard to aruge with that logic.
  6. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9
    Kind of hard to aruge with that logic.

    Except that an E-Web requires a power-generator to be attached to it (or other external power source, such as a starship). It's not powered by power packs that I am aware of.

    I also believe it's somewhere on the order of 60 kg., which is far, far more than both a .50 Cal and the ammo to go with it... ;)
  7. Jedi_Matt Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 11, 2002
    star 4
    isn't an E-web the thing we see stormtroopers/snowtroopers firing at the falcon in the movies? the huage thing?

    well sure it might be heavy, but i think a big part of that weight was the actual power source.

    i weight 80 KG at the very most, surely with a good STR total it'd be easy enough to hold and support with a wide shoulder strap. just make it so that if they try to fire more than a certain number of shots with it in the round then they have to make a fortitude roll otherwise they're thrown on their ass by recoil (that e-web is the repeater thing right otherwise its pointless me posting)
  8. Tremaniac Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 26, 2002
    star 3
    DP, you're assuming that they carried the normal load of Ammo. These are players, they don't believe in going out prepared for anything less than WWIII! And getting a backpack mount for the power pack shouldn't be too hard. Plus, here's the other thing. You're allowing customization. Which means take that BFG to the Tech Specialist and have him strip down the non essentials and replace what's left with lightweight metals and polymer plastics. You can probably cut 20 kilos easy. Which means it's Roadblock time!
  9. Mr44 VIP

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 6
    If you really want to freak out your GM:

    the e-web can be hooked up to a "Gonk," who can then move right along with your character.

    Using a shadowrun type of rigid harness, and your friendly neighborhood Gonk, the e-web becomes quite a devistating portable weapon.

    Ah, I remember a character who assaulted an Imperial garrison that contained some information in their data tape storage room.

    He burst into the center and the techs there immediately surrendered, once they saw this crazy Reb carring an e-web which was now pointed at them...

    The tactic went less smoothly when assaulting a garrison of stormies, not because the blaster was ineffective at mowing down the troopers, but because one of them figured out the weakness of the set-up...... ;)

    EDIT: Tre, I think the reason that the e-web doesn't have a portable power pack is because of the drain. I don't remember which SB, but the e-web needs a ALOT of power to develop a shot.

    I think that it would be too heavy to carry on the back..
  10. Gorin_Zachian Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2002
    star 4
    NO please, for the love of god NO!

    I really DON'T want to see my Group's 6th level soldier unloading with an E-Web thank you very much! Imagine the Carnage! THE CARNAGE!
  11. Tremaniac Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 26, 2002
    star 3
    Sorry Gorin, I have to finish this.
    Ok, D6 mentions a hip mounted power pack for light repeaters that allows unlimited shots. So why not a backpack? I'd gladly load up another 60 lbs on my back (the beauty of packs today is you can distribute weight between shoulders and hips, makes life easier when camping) if I thought I could mow down jedi with impunity. Now mind you, the power pack may be new tech or very sensative, so don't get shot with it. But that's usually not a problem when you're up against a lightsaber wielding maniac. Especially at 800 or more meters.

    Mr44, the idea with the gonk is great! We use a similar phrase, and call our bipedal packmules UPS men. Complete with brown clothes, armor, whatever.
  12. Mr44 VIP

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 6
    well, carnage was an understatement..heh heh

    until of course the party ended....
  13. Mr44 VIP

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 6
    Tre, funny how different people views things

    We always viewed the E-web as heavier than a light repeating blaster.

    In fact, the D6 rule book describes the e-web as a heavy repeating blaster.

    It lists the light repeating blaster's 25 shot portable power pack

    but the e-web can only be fired from an external power generator.

    (d6 2nd ed rule book, p.155.)
  14. Tremaniac Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 26, 2002
    star 3
    The E-web is much heavier than the light repeater. In fact the Corporate Sector book actually shows the E-Web in it's fully set up glory. I'm simply stating that the generator could be backpack mounted and with the right customization the weapon itself could ditch some weight and add a longer barrel. In my demented mind, I'm picturing something akin to the machine guns in Aliens. A harness that assists with the burden of weight. Now, this thing is probably bulky and encumbersome. Which means leave it at home for stealth missions.
  15. Mr44 VIP

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 6
    how many charges do you think a scaled down pack would provide for the e-web?

    I think 10-15 seems about right...
  16. Tremaniac Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 26, 2002
    star 3
    How many does the d20 rules state? Because in second edition I ruled that pack pretty much guarenteed you can keep shooting 'til the cows take up arms and overthrow humanity. Personally if you were stingy I'd say 25-30 myself. That's alot of juice from an awefully big battery. If you can't put a Jedi down with that, switch to another weapon while he's still closing. You know, you can keep multiple weapons slung, for just such an occasion.
  17. MasterDagon Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 11, 2003
    Actually, this is a common gripe I've run into in my Star Wars campaigns, in both WEG and d20. A lot of the balancing factors needed for Jedi is dependent on the GM. Yes, Jedi can be very versatile, and in some situations seemingly outshine many of the other classes. But only if the GM and the other players at the table allow that to happen.

    As for the use of Friendship and Affect Mind in diplomatic situations, well, that's obviously something that can be done. However, Nobles should be wary and are generally strong-willed, so those powers should have a limited affect if any.

    As for being able to outfight a soldier, I don't agree. Yes, jedi are formidable warriors. However, in a fight, granted a they can deflect shots, unless they can get up close and personal with a foe, they have to be defensive. Yes, there are some force skills and powers that do help, but not much. I don't care how powerful a jedi is, and I like playing Jedi characters myself, enough blaster shots fired in a jedi's direction will not only get through his defenses, but put a serious hurting on the Jedi.

    From my point of view, there is a flaw with saying that a Jedi is more versatile than a fringer. Unlike the other classes, a player of a Jedi character must split his skill points between force skills and non-force skills. This doesn't give the player a whole lot of leeway with how he spends his skill points. Even if the player has an intelligent Jedi who's human, he still is limited in the number of skill points he has to spend at each level. Anybody who plays a Jedi, and puts all or most of his skill points in force skills is seriously limiting his effectiveness in the game.

    As for being stronger in the use of force points for being force-sensitive and/or being a Jedi character, I don't see a problem with that. Granted in WEG, the use of a force point by any character, force-sensitive or not, was universal, double the amount of dice you were allowed to roll for any action during that round. Again, from my perspective, it makes a certain amount of sense that force-sensitive and Jedi characters should have a stronger use with Force points. Unlike non-force-sensitive characters, they have an affinity, a greater connection to the Force. This is reflected in how powerful a force point is for a Jedi character compared to a non-Jedi character.

    I'm not saying your view or anyone else who agrees with you is wrong. However, in all the time I've played Jedi characters, I never outshined any other player at the table. A lot of that is due to the GM who's run for me keeping things balanced for everyone.
  18. DarthArraKul Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2003
    star 2
    well... that is a loaded question..

    jedi are the superheros of the star wars universe.. they can do amazing things.. things that mundane folk can not do...BUT..
    they have a code..and as a GM i am ruthless in enforcing the code, in addition the jedi must be played as dedicated to the order otherwise the temptatoins of the darkside can be overwhelming.

    yes in a close contact melee.. the jedi is a devestating opponent.. but a jedi can only deflect so many shots.. eventually.... you can wear them down.. trust me.. i have been running star wars since 1987 when the first WEG book came out.and ya know what.. they took the jedi down quite a few pegs in the D20 system...

    i have seen one of my players play the same character for 10 yrs+.. and ya know what,,, he was rarely able to outshine the rest of the players... because he knows how to play a character

    most of the problems i am seeing on this board are GM issues... story boys and girls... story is what its all about.. this in not the universe of hack and slash ((( don't get me wrong.. nuttin more fun than killin some stormtroopers/ battledroids)))
    but this is a space opera... provide a compelling story for all of your characters and the jedi will be on equal footing. roleplaying isn't simply a string of encounters.. its a story... but one that your players can influence and change all the time. if the jedi gets away with too much at your gaming table.. thats because the story wasn't there... SORRY if that offends any little munchkins...but come on, roleplay... thinking is important... any player has a chance of figuring out the clues.. and any character can (( well,, should be able to hold a converstaion)).. so if you're being outclassed its probabbly poor or inexperienced GMing.

    i know.. in the last 16 years i have made every mistake possible.... so there i said it.. i am not perfect.. i just would love for everyone to sit down tell a good story and have a damn good time.

    tip for any GMs who want to hear.. have a plot point for every character.. that way no one feels overshadowed... and if you have an especially bad munchkin in your group.. KILL THEM.. something ignominious.. it'll help in the long run... also.. keep in mind that the more powerful the character the more insidious a villian he will draw.. and usually he only comes when you're alone(( note.. obi/vader, luke/ vader, luke/ vader&palpi, qui-gon& obi/ darth maul, obi& anni/ dooku.. get the point)))

    in closing a jedi is only overpowered if you let them get that way..

    thank u for reading
  19. TheExecutor Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2002
    star 3
    You are the GM and you should say yes or no to Jedi and that goes for D6 or D20. I have made a simple rule only one jedi per game and so on one human, one pilot, one pick pockit. I find that if you set limits people don't make jedi's to uber powerfull.
  20. Tremaniac Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 26, 2002
    star 3
    keep in mind that the more powerful the character the more insidious a villian he will draw.. and usually he only comes when you're alone(( note.. obi/vader, luke/ vader, luke/ vader&palpi, qui-gon& obi/ darth maul, obi& anni/ dooku..

    Holy Jesus, ArraKul, that is the most beautiful thing I've read in years. Looks like I'll have to brush up on my Serial Killer stalking mentality. Draw individual players into situations that don't involve the group. Mowahahahahaha, I feel some pain coming on!
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.