Jedi religion founder accuses Tesco of discrimination over rules on hoods

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/sep/18/jedi-religion-tesco-hood-jones



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Jedi religion founder accuses Tesco of discrimination over rules on hoods

Daniel Jones says he was humiliated and victimised for his beliefs following incident at store in Wales


* Helen Carter
* guardian.co.uk, Friday 18 September 2009 15.29 BST
* Article history

Tesco has been accused of religious discrimination after the company ordered the founder of a Jedi religion to remove his hood or leave a branch of the supermarket in north Wales.

Daniel Jones, founder of the religion inspired by the Star Wars films, says he was humiliated and victimised for his beliefs following the incident at a Tesco store in Bangor.

The 23-year-old, who founded the International Church of Jediism, which has 500,000 followers worldwide, was told the hood flouted store rules.

But the grocery empire struck back, claiming that the three best known Jedi Knights in the Star Wars movies ? Yoda, Obi-Wan Kenobi and Luke Skywalker ? all appeared in public without their hoods. Jones, from Holyhead, who is known by the Jedi name Morda Hehol, said his religion dictated that he should wear the hood in public places and is considering legal action against the chain.

"It states in our Jedi doctrination that I can wear headwear. It just covers the back of my head," he said.

"You have a choice of wearing headwear in your home or at work but you have to wear a cover for your head when you are in public."

He said he'd gone to the store to buy something to eat during his lunch break when staff approached him and ordered him to the checkout where they explained he would have to remove the offending hood or leave the store.

"They said: 'Take it off', and I said: 'No, its part of my religion. It's part of my religious right.' I gave them a Jedi church business card.

"They weren't listening to me and were rude. They had three people around me. It was intimidating." Jones, who has made an official complaint to Tesco, is considering a boycott of the store and is seeking legal advice.

Tesco said: "He hasn't been banned. Jedis are very welcome to shop in our stores although we would ask them to remove their hoods.

"Obi-Wan Kenobi, Yoda and Luke Skywalker all appeared hoodless without ever going over to the Dark Side and we are only aware of the Emperor as one who never removed his hood.

"If Jedi walk around our stores with their hoods on, they'll miss lots of special offers."


Well I am sure most people who post to TFN will have an opinion on this either way, but if they are allowing some type of Muslim outfits that cover a person way more than this, it is a violation of his rights.

But to me it is a bit funny anyway. He should have waved his hand and said "I don't have to remove my hood."

 

Erm...I like the counter-point of the Emperor never having removed his hood. One gets the feeling the store owner sat down and watched all six in one big hurry after this.

 

"If Jedi walk around our stores with their hoods on, they'll miss lots of special offers."


This is exactly why I want to wear my hood up or keep my sunglasses on when I walk around stores/banks/etc. It should be my Sith God Emperor's given right to choose to not be bombarded by adverts! I can change the channel when an advert comes on, right? I still have that freedom?

Enforcing dress codes will not stop a determined hoodlum from robbing out your karking stores, idiots!

 

I'm with Tesco on this one. Jones should follow the rules.

 

Interesting story. Tesco wouldn't ask someone to remove a burka in their stores, yet they'll ask a jedi to remove their hoods.

Isn't that double standards ?

Tesco's are not in the position to decide what is, and what is not a 'genuine' religion. Their claim that Jedi's have their hoods off in public in the movies is irrelevant as the Jedi religion could be different to the Jedi's in the movies (do remember that there are literally hundreds of churches of christianity with differing rules.)

 

Will you still be with Tesco's if Jones wins the case? Will you still be with them, when they wrestle the Pope down to the floor & yank off his hat?

 

Yes. I would also be with Tesco if they refused to allow women in burqas inside too, even at the risk of offending Muslims. The hoods-down policy is for anti-crime purposes, so the stores' CCTV can clearly identify any potential shop lifters. Jones kicking up a fuss is frankly just for the media attention.

 

Tesco, or any other body, should be able to say, "these are our policies and if you don't want to conform to them, take your business elsewhere." Want to wear a Jedi robe? Go to the shop down the street. Want to wear a burka? Take your business to someone more accomidating. Want to show up in jeans and a Who Farted? shirt? We don't want your business. Likewise, Jedi Master Needsagirlfriend should be free to say "don't want to meet my needs? I'll go to the competition."

As a private individual or as a business, I should be able to desciminate against who I want at any time. If I don't want black people in my home, I don't have to let them in. If I don't want black people to work for me, I have no choice in the matter. I should be allowed to cut off my nose to spite my face. If I'm willing to settle for a lesser applicant because of skin color, religious affiliations, perfume worn at the interview, the voices in my head, or any other arbitrary criteria, that should be my right. Why is my right to free association and to chose with whom I deal with somehow less important than their "right" to accomidation? (For the record though, government should not be able to pick and choose based on race/religion/sex/etc.)


The problem here isn't what constitutes a religion. The problem is attention whoring and the demands for "reasonable" accomidation. These people live by a certain code and then demand that everyone else bend over backwards to accomidate them instead of adapting to the world.

 

Why don't you fight this injustice then? The Girlfriend less Jedi is willing to fight for what he believes in, c'mon Steven_R, fight the good fight to make sure no undersirables are forced to work for you & take your money. Take them to the People's Court! I'm sure there's enough bigots that watch that show that'll stand by you & fight the good fight.

 

I own a business. I have an open position. Why should I be forced by some government agency to hire someone I don't want working for me, even when I know I'll be hurting my business by not hiring this person?

I own a business. I have a policy in place concerning customer dress and behavior. Why should I be forced by some governtment agency to accomodate a customer who doesn't want to follow my policy, yet still wants to do business with me?

Do I or do I not have a right to free association? Does the reverse hold true? Can the government legitimately force a customer to do business with me even if I offend his/her/its/their values? Why are Jedi Master Willdieavirgin's rights more important than mine?

 

If they'd allow burkhas but not hoods, it's a double-standard. If they wouldn't allow burkha'd customers either, then the rules are applied consistently and he can't claim discrimination.

Given that the Jedi religion sprang up essentially to prove a point, I wouldn't be surprised if this were the same. Although I am amused by the store's response.

 

So it's a double standard. We're confronted by double standards every day. I recently went to a store and was told I couldn't carry my backpack in because I might shoplift stuff, but women with their supersized purses were just fine. I chose not to shop there and told the store's management why I was not longer giving them my business. That doesn't mean that the store shouldn't have the right to say "we'll allow X but not Y, even though they are identical."

 

Cause the customer is always right. Cause discrimination is always wrong. Cause as a business owner you're in a position of power & there's laws to ensure you don't abuse that power. You have the right to have rights, as long as what you're doing is right. You wanting to kick blacks & minorities out of your store is so very very wrong, m'man. I'm just sayin'.

 

That's nice.

 

Stupid prequels. Never should have retconned Obi-Wan's practical desert robes into the 'official uniform' of the Jedi.

 

I agree JKH; prequel Jedi shoulda worn ROTJ-Luke-style outfits.

Wait, what board are we on?

 

This exactly.

And my first reaction was, wait a minute--Jedi Masters are required to wear hoods?

 

Flanders to ban Muslim headscarf in schools

 

This goes back to punishing the majority for a minorities actions, re Hoodies.

So sorry Spike but I disagree with you here.

 

The counter claim to this notion of the Jedi religion as being anything semi-serious would be "there's a time and a place to pretend you're the captain of the fail-boat, and there's a time to be serious".

This nuffy could have simply researched Daoism and Buddhism and realised the ethics exist there, and as he has a midi-chlorian count of absolutely 0 and no capacity to manipulate objects with the Force, it's past time he grew up and stopped making fans look pathetic.

And comparisons with Islam are idiotic, I expected better from you of all people Malkie. One's a religion with over a century of tradition and millions of followers, the other's only marginally less nerdy than learning to speak Klingon.

ES

 

At least learning to speak Klingon doesn't make Trekkies look dumb. Whereas a Jedi religion...

 

And yet, personally speaking, I'd say they're about nearly on par for how much they SHOULD be taken seriously.
"A cult is a religion with no political power." - Thomas Wolfe

I mean, I'd also agree that the more extreme attempts to portray Jedi as a religion just make us look bad, but I'm not sure I'd say that religion is more sensible than that, per se. With the exception that at least Lucas acknowledges he was creating a fictional storyline, whereas with the other religions, that's not known about the authors.

 

Which is why I'm required by law to acknowledge Mormonism, Lowie.

But honestly, when you have a lack of rights like in China, an upper middle class nerd with a painful inability to separate fiction and reality being told to drop his hoody makes me angry. It devalues rights, makes the West look absurd, and me ashamed to be a fan.

Idiot.

ES

 

Maybe this is the American side of things that I have people complain when science exhibits don't acknowledge god, then, but it would seem that there's a lot of "not separating out what is reality and what is not" going around beyond this.

Though how I feel about him in particular is if he's doing this to prove a point or because he's sincere. The former I could support a bit, whereas the latter.... well, rather covers some of your points.

 

If he's sincere, he's either cripplingly ignorant or socially inept to the point of requring help. With the capacity to manipulate the force, a made up central tenet of a made up religion, all he's doing is recycling karmaic theory which, as I said, he should research more.


ES