Speculation Jedi still hated in Episode VII

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by clone3131, Dec 13, 2012.

  1. clone3131 Force Ghost

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    Feb 11, 2004
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    Yo! So, been thinking – a lot of us assume that the Jedi will be featured in EP VII and will be heros to the New Republic. But, iwhat if the Jedi are still hated in the New Republic in Episode VII? We have to remember that the last time the universe saw the Jedi, they were being sold as enemies of the Republic and terminated, without exception, across the universe.

    So, why all of a sudden, will people turn around and accept them back? Sure, Luke is seen in the eyes of the Rebellion as a hero and self-proclaimed Jedi. But, will the New Republic accept him and his ways? And will they allow him to recruit new members?

    Assuming that this trilogy takes place 30-50 years after RotJ, and assuming Luke is in the movie, I think it would be interesting to see the New Republic struggle to accept the Jedi again and look down on Luke as a scorn or a reminder of “the old times” and how not to run the New Republic.

    “Jedi, we don’t need their scum” High Senate Member
    “Yes, sir!” Assistant


    -C
  2. Jedi Gunny Yahtzee Host

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    It's certainly possible, but given how Jedi seem to be marketable characters in many instances in the SW universe, I think it's likely that there'd be more of a lukewarm response to their presence than outright rejection. But hatred towards them would certainly keep up with the OT themes.
  3. A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Riot Deterrent

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    I considered this, but I have to wonder, if they went with this scenario, if due diligence would be given in demonstrating why the galaxy still accepts the word of the dictator who sold them that interpretation of events in order to be personally elevated in power.
  4. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

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    Especially after we see people on several planets apparently celebrating the destruction of the Death Star and the Emperor's death.
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  5. clone3131 Force Ghost

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    Feb 11, 2004
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    To draw a real wold parallel, and hopefully this isnt offensive, but this is kind of like Hitler and the Jews in WWII. I'm no WWII buff, though, and wonder how long it took the German people to accept the Jews back....

    Again, no offense to anyone..

    -C
  6. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

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    Nov 12, 2012
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    I highly doubt the military under Ackbar and the government under Mon Mothma would be like HEY LUKE THANKS FOR HELPING SAVE THE GALAXY NOW GO F YOURSELF!" Rogue Squadron and Wedge would just take it and be like, oh well, our commander is considered evil despite all he has done for us.

    I mean to include a fear within the general populous would make sense, however not much more than that. However secret Jedi hiding would make for a good movie...
  7. A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Riot Deterrent

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    I understand your comparison attempt, but the difference would be if Hitler told the Jews that the Nazis had committed these atrocities upon their populace... but, he, himself, is not only NOT a Nazi, but he is hunting them down. The populace really ought to rethink any propaghanda which Plapy offered them in his campaign after the impact he had on the universe. A better comparison is what US citzens in 2012 think of Bush's Iraq war in hindsight.
    Last edited by A Chorus of Disapproval, Dec 13, 2012
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  8. I Are The Internets Chosen One

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    Nov 20, 2012
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    There will be a scene in the new movie where Luke is on a message board where there are a bunch of people complaining that the new Jedi are nowhere near as good as the old Jedi which were not flawed at all in the slightest.
  9. clone3131 Force Ghost

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    Feb 11, 2004
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    Good points. But, in both examples - you still have a large part of the population who think their dictators were right. To use your comparison (and I'm keeping my own views out of this), there is a large portion of the US that thinks the Iraq war was a good thing. Most of them are NRA card members, but there is still a large populous that supported Bush.

    -C
  10. A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Riot Deterrent

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    "I hate your newfangled visually developed lightsabers. And what's with all of that physicality and choreography? I want to see 2 old men fencing incompetently and a rookie swing his laser sword like a blind kid with baseball bat".
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  11. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

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    I'll be one of those people, and I'll troll Luke for not being strict enough and for making out with his sister.
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  12. I Are The Internets Chosen One

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    "Luke ruined my childhood! He didn't follow my ideas for what I wanted the New Jedi to resemble!"
  13. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

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    Did no one see the galaxy on Tatooine Naboo Endor and Coruscant celebrate? If they celebrate on Coruscant and pull down the statue of Palps, (much like the pulling down of the Saddam in Iraq, to turn your analogy around on you), I am pretty sure people are just happy the Emperor is gone. That being said, I don't think Jedi are going to run around being like LOOK IM A JEDI
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  14. A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Riot Deterrent

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    That celebration, plus knowing some of the 'story' behind the public view on Plapy is why I think a "the Jedi are still hated" plot may be a hard sell. The Jedi definitely won't be doing public meet & greets, but I think the majority of citizens may be aware that they were lied to by a con artist who wrecked their Republic for 2 decades.
  15. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

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    Nov 12, 2012
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    Agreed, majority of citizens will either not care about force users entirely or will be glad the sith are out of power.
  16. fenton Force Ghost

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    Being happy the EMpire is gone isn't the same as wanting hte Jedi back.

    Many of those people might very well blame the Jedi for Palpatine taking power in the first place.
  17. clone3131 Force Ghost

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    Agreed and a great point. Most people will remember the Jedi running around with Palpy when he took power - and helping Palpy in the Clone Wars.

    Its possible, however unlikely, the Jedi will be looked to as an outcast...

    -C
  18. fenton Force Ghost

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    Nov 29, 2001
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    Even characters that know Luke might now want the full Jedi Order to return. Their view might be "Luke is great and we needed him but I really don't want 100,000 Jedi running around again".
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  19. DarkGingerJedi Jedi Grand Master

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    Nov 21, 2012
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    I don't think 'hatred' is the right word. I think they either might have contempt or have just forgotten about them.

    While it's true the the rebels, or at least as much as the rebel leaders, seem to think highly of Luke and even go around saying "May the Force be with you" and such, I think the galaxy at large might have a different take on the Order.

    Palpy did a great job at having the Jedi be the fall guy on his quest for power (and in some cases, rightfully) Even though after his reign, certain truths would undoubtedly come to the surface, I think negative emotions for the Jedi could reside in that populace. I mean, the Jedi did "order" the clones. They did lead them into battle, which resulted the start of the civil war. Their Order was pretentious and lofty and above the public. And when they did come down from their tower in the clouds, they went around ordering people, or picking up 'pathetic lifeforms' as they called it. I could imagine a regular citizen being very distrustful of an Order comprised of beings known for, essentially, mind tricks and magic. And seeing how the Jedi became enemies of the state and were systematically hunted down by One Lone Jedi Knight, aka Darth Vader, who acted even worse towards regular citizens, and was the personal body guard of the Emperor, the guy they hated even more....it would be an easy leap to see how they would be very wary of the Jedi.

    There are some references that show that viewpoint. Maybe it's not the best example, but Uncle Owen, harbored personal resentment to the Jedi and doesn't seem to have the highest opinion of them. Now... he's got a really good reason for that viewpoint, but it's still there. And that same exact viewpoint could be carried across the galaxy.

    The Imperials in ANH, go around making fun of the Jedi, and they do it right in front of Vader. Until he chokes them, at least. They've all gotten on the technology bandwagon and think of the Jedi as some archaic religion...long dead.

    Same goes for Han. And he doesn't reallllly believe in it, until maybe half way thru RotJ...and that's after knowing Luke first hand.

    By the time RotJ ends, the Jedi had been out of business for what 20-30 years. Twenty long Empire filled years. Years where regular citizens became completely hateful of their evil government. And yes, there might be plenty of celebrating going on in various parts of the galaxy. But to them, it wasn't the Jedi that came back and saved them. Would they have all known about Luke being a Jedi? Or that he was on the Death Star moments before it blew, saving Darth Vader? (I'm sure that would have gone over well on the nightly news) As a rebel he never really used his Jedi-hood to become a leader in that organization. And at the end, he gave himself up. Won his father back. But that Death Star was going to be blown up regardless. And that was done by regular rebel non-force-user citizens.

    I don't know. It could totally work either way. I think it could be really interesting if there is no Jedi Order at the start of this ST. The end of RotJ, we saw the switch being flipped. Now..we should see it coming back slowly. Even if that means, for the 30/40 in-between years, nothing has progressed.
    Last edited by DarkGingerJedi, Dec 13, 2012
  20. Count Yubnub Force Ghost

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    Oct 1, 2012
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    I've suggested this in the past. One of the reasons why I think it's plausible is that it would be part of Campbell's monomyth. Specifically, as I understand things, we haven't seen the third part of the monomyth yet, the "Return with the elixir," where the hero returns with his "boon"/newfound knowledge to common life. The first stage of this part is "refusal of the return," where the hero is reluctant to do so, or finds that his fellow man are reluctant to accept the "boon." So IMO it's possible that the story might go that way. But who knows.
    Last edited by Count Yubnub, Dec 13, 2012
  21. Fleab88 Jedi Grand Master

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    Sep 12, 2012
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    Perhaps a better term might not be so much hatred, but requiring higher supervision. The galaxy just faced a nasty tyrant, and while the majority do not seem to be aware of his sith nature, they do have good old Darth to look at as that tyrants right hand man who used the mystical force to what many would have seemed unnatural lengths. Would we then be facing a galaxy that would want a higher level of accountability placed on those who use the force? It is the basic idea of who polices the police? How much red tape are they going to want to put on the Jedi?
  22. fenton Force Ghost

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    Nov 29, 2001
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    Thats true, RotJ ends before we see what Luke is going to do after his "quest" is finished.

    As suggested in another thread, Episode VII could involve the new heroes searching for Luke. I said this would be a fit them into a Joseph Campbell esque story structure, but having Luke go back to being a farmer after defeating the Emperor would also bring his journey to a close.
  23. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

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    Mar 26, 2001
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    Especially if it was Darth Vader's son leading them.
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  24. Julius Vernon Jedi Grand Master

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    Nov 7, 2012
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    We know that the galaxy celebrated the defeat of the Empire and the demise of the Emperor, but this does not mean they immediately embrace the heroes of Yavin as those who freed them from tyranny.

    If the public specifically knew that Darth Vader and the Emperor were Sith Lords would they have much of an idea of the differences between a Jedi and a Sith? I would imagine not.

    I expect at the very least some who view Luke with skepticism and distrust. If Arndt chooses I think it's a pretty logical continuation that the Jedi are distrusted and the New Republic has to be careful in how they hold him up as part of the standard of its establishment.
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  25. KED12345 Force Ghost

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    Sep 10, 2012
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    I imagine that Jedi will still be widely hated in Episode VII, even if it was proven they did not cause the war, they and the Republic itself were directly responsible for the destruction and mass civilian deaths during the Clone Wars. Even more so, Dooku and Vader were both Jedi, and to add to this: the leader of the New Jedi Order itself is the son of Vader, no less.

    I'd actually be surprised if in Episode VII it was shown the Jedi got back together as quickly as they did in the EU.
    Last edited by KED12345, Dec 13, 2012