Speculation Jedi still hated in Episode VII

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by clone3131, Dec 13, 2012.

  1. SithLordDarthRichie London CR

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    People will be wary of Jedi, given what Darth Vader did with the Force in his time as the Emperor's right-hand man.

    So they may not be comfortable with a Jedi order telling them what to do, but if this order is small and has no political influence I don't see the hatred being there. Even less so if the Jedi are seen to be helpful.
    clone3131 likes this.
  2. fishtailsam Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2003
    star 4
    Admiral Motti: "Don't try to frighten us with your sorcerer's ways, Lord Vader. Your sad devotion to that ancient religion has not helped you conjure up the stolen data tapes, or given you enough clairvoyance to find the rebels' hidden fortress"

    I never got the impression that the majority of the populace was even familiar with the concept of force users. Let alone antaganistic to them. Jedi were myth; stuff-and-nonsence at best but more typically unheard of... Until the PT changed the timeline making the peak of the Jedi order less than 20 years prior, but... don't worry 'bout that.

    Most people wouldn't have bought into the propaganda Palpatine would have had to come up with, "Extra Extra! Creepy Old Military Overlord Declares 'It was all the Jedi's fault'"

    That said, I dig the idea that the Rebel Core (Mothma, Rieken, Akbar) would distrust Luke trying to train up a bunch of telekenetic warrior psychics.

    Statements in orange are my opinion
    There, now there is no need to argue with me.
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  3. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    Yeah, this. Given 20 years of Imperial brutality in the name of "safety and security" I don't see why the people wouldn't have loved Luke.
    fishtailsam and Pro Scoundrel like this.
  4. Count Yubnub Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2012
    star 4
    IMO, the Motti quote appears to contradict the impression you seem to get from it.


    What? How did the PT "change the timeline"?


    ROTS shows that the Senate buys it just fine.
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  5. V-2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2012
    star 4
    What I get from that is that Motti made no distinction between Jedi and Sith, but was scoffing at The Force as an ancient religion. It doesn't say anything about the peak of the powers of the Jedi order, merely that belief in the force is ancient and unhelpful.

    If Motti's views are common in the galaxy then perhaps force users are not trusted. A galaxy without Jedi to keep all the force users safely brainwashed could be rife with intolerance against those cheating privileged *******s!
  6. BigAl6ft6 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 5
    I doubt Luke will have a fully functioning Jedi Order when the first frame of Ep. 7 rolls around, that would be undramatic. But if Luke did NOTHING for 30 years, unless there's some plot-related reason, I think he'd come off as kind of a wimp. I'm assuming people will view the Jedi like Motti and Solo did in ANH, "Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." They should be like, "Huh, Jedi? Really?" Maybe not hated but definitely freaked out that, "Ahhh! Jedi!"
  7. Count Yubnub Force Ghost

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    Oct 1, 2012
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    There are all kinds of direction that story could go into. For one, I imagine he's been having difficulty locating Force-sensitive beings who'd want to become Jedi. The Jedi were an institution who regularly tested newborn children for their midi-chlorian count, or that's implied anyway. But Luke by himself, where would he even start looking? I suppose it would take quite a while to get things going back to where they used to be.
  8. BigAl6ft6 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 5
    yeah maybe Luke and, like, a dozen Jedi, max, and some of those are only half-trained, new recruits, etc. etc. I can see that being a really cool way to start off.
    fishtailsam likes this.
  9. Adrian the Cool Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 3
    The New Republic, Galactic Alliance or every other galactic government will easily be able to recreate the Jedi's high acceptance by the people through political and religious missionary.

    I also imagine the New Republic could be like a theocracy and magocracy of the Light Side and lead by the Jedi themselves.
    Last edited by Adrian the Cool, Dec 13, 2012
  10. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I wouldn't go so far as to say that the New Republic would be a Jedi-led theocracy, but I definitely think that if people were happy to see the Empire gone (which I believe they were) and knew that one of the Rebellion's leaders happened to be a Jedi, they would feel friendly towards the Jedi.

    Anti-Jedi sentiment was much stronger in the final days of the Old Republic thanks to Palpatine's propaganda.
  11. V-2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2012
    star 4
    I'd say the Jedi did a fairly good job of promoting themselves as something other than a force for good.

    Then there's Dooku, who didn't exactly do wonders for the reputation of Jedi after he quit the order... That was probably part of Sidious's master plan, though.

    I like the idea that the new Jedi (or just a new fanatical government) impose a theocracy which a self-outcast Luke and his new protégé(s) must overturn, a-la Children Of Dune, but I don't expect Star Wars to plagiarise from just one source. ;) Given the current global events it would be hard for writers to resist some commentary on fanaticism and the fate of revolutions, though.
    Last edited by V-2, Dec 13, 2012
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  12. Panakas_Dawg Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2004
    star 5
    I need some in-universe Internet/Newspaper headlines screaming for Jedi blood, slinging libel about ex-Jedi, witch-hunts for the Sith, etc. Outlandish conspiracy theories, etc. Like the fall of Nazi Germany - now it seems they had time machines and UFOs and death rays and Antarctic bases and whatnot all this time. ;)

    There is usually some extreme backlashing against fallen regimes. I'd like to see what some "insurrectionist" troublemakers can do to the stability of the New Republic.
  13. fishtailsam Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2003
    star 4
    1: Motti views Vader's religion the same way we would view someone worshipping Ra. An ancient religion. He also has exposure to Vader and would know Vader practiced some kind of bogus olden-tyme-witch-doctor stuff. the rest of the galaxy would not, thus would have not opinion on the subject. If he knew what a sith/jedi/force user could do he would have said, "Oh Eff, a jedi, I better shut up!"

    2: If you calculate when the clone wars would have taken place, while JUST looking at ANH, it would have happened around 40 yrs prior to the film. Lucas jacked the timeline as soon as he made Vader and Luke's dad the same person, but the PT makes it all the more obvious that the jedi were a HUGE organization less than 20 yrs prior, yet in the OT no one even recognizes Luke's abilities as jedi-like, even though some are old enough (Han) to have SEEN other Jedi.

    3: As I said, it's my opinion, if a galaxy of people would have believed this, then it's a galaxy of dolts. I know what Palpatine accomplished is possible (see: Hitler) but if Hitler had gone about it the way Palpatine had, he never would have made it out of germany.

    also, "senators" does not = "most of the people in the galaxy"
    Last edited by fishtailsam, Dec 13, 2012
  14. metr0man Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 13, 2012
    star 1
    The idea I had was less that the Jedi are hard and more tht the Jedi are wary of being out in the open and too linked to a government, after how the Emperor almost wiped them out. This, their training academy is a secret location, and they are cut off for the main populace, secretive. The movie would be their "coming out party", saving everyone from the new threat and taking their place as saviors of the galaxy.
  15. Echo-07 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2012
    star 4
    I think those loyal to the Empire will hate and fear the rise of the Jedi and those who value justice and freedom will welcome their return.
    Pro Scoundrel likes this.
  16. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    That actually works quite well with Vader's "Dark Lord of the Sith" title, and the revelation in TPM that the Sith are a group not seen in the last 1000 years.

    As a result, the "ancient religion" could be the "Sith beliefs"- same with "sorcerer's ways"- if Motti is moderately knowledgable about history.
  17. Panakas_Dawg Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2004
    star 5
    Also, in our world, most religions *are* ancient in and of themselves. Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, etc are pretty old themselves and qualify as "ancient." Perhaps Motti is what we call an "atheist" and just bad-mouthing Vader's beliefs.

    The issue seems to be that, in the PT, so many people recognize a Jedi and what one *is* - even though they don't get the whole mystery of the Force.

    Little Ani recognizes a Jedi by the Laser Sword - the Jedi Knights are the stuff of legend out there on Tattooine, but are something real.
    Watto references Qui Gon's mind-trick - the Jedi powers are known as something real as Toydarians are impervious to mind tricks.
    Anakin tells patrons at the club in AOTC that they're on "Jedi business."
    A Dug in a speeder curses out the Jedi in the skies over Coruscant.
    Anakin is referred to as "Master Jedi" until Padme corrects this - political officials know their titles.
    Dex is aware of Obi Wan and the Jedi and understands enough of their beliefs to have an opinion on them and their analysis archives.
    The Jedi become the military leaders of the Republic. Everyone would know what a Jedi is and, on a basic level, what the Force is.

    The Jedi are obviously more common knowledge than one would think from listening to Motti. Sure, GL changed stuff, but I don't see it as problematic. They may know Jedi, but not the ins and outs of Jedi religion.
    kainee likes this.
  18. TheManFromMortis Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2012
    star 2
    _ _ _ _

    This is what I like. Going back to Campbell to get the mythology right, just as George Lucas did way back when.
  19. SithLordDarthRichie London CR

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    Leia summed it up quite well in ROTJ when she said to Luke "you have a power I don't understand". I think many non-Force users unless they had seen a Jedi or witnessed Vader's powers would really understand what the Force was or even if anything they might have heard about it was true. If you'd grown up during the Dark Times and never seen a Jedi you might well think what people said about them was simply mythology.

    Most people would likely have heard things in passing - "that Darth Vader guy, they say he choked a man to death without touching him"
    Would you believe such things?

    Han is old enough to have seen Jedi, true. But that doesn't mean he believes in the Force itself as some all-powerful entity they can harness, as he said "it's all a lot of simple tricks and nonsense". He clearly thinks someone like Obi Wan is some crazy religious sage who has old world views of things. That rather reminds me of how many atheists view the Pope

    We see in TCW how some view the Jedi and the Republic as a whole, as a righteous interfering bunch who think they know it all and have the right therefore to impose their views on everyone. Kind of the way a lot people in the world have viewed the USA at times.

    Remember in KOTOR that Revan's fall came about ue to inaction by the Jedi Coucil in dealing with the Mandalorians invading other systems. They were asked for help and refused to give it, leading to a breakaway group going to help instead.
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  20. KevinM1 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2012
    star 2
    I hope that the ST steers far away from any kind of politics. Politics/political fallout is hard to get right in general, and really doesn't have a place in what's supposed to be an action/adventure serial.
  21. Darth Trevius Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2012
    star 1
    here is a dose of reality ... palpatine was considered the hero amongst the people .. he was voted into office .. he wiped out the jedi pretty much in secret and the death star was mean to maintain alleged peace in a galaxy engulfed in war .. the people don't know palpatine started the war .. just like americans don't know our gov is responsible for 9/11 .. it was an excuse to attack iraq .. so george bush is essentially palpatine .. creating false wars so he can make more money on oil in iraq .. well americans all supported the war .. just like the galaxy supported palpatine .. the rebels are considered terrorists .. just like anyone in the us that speaks out against our screwed up leaders is considered a terrorist .. attack of the clones was a direct metaphor for what was going on with 9/11 and iraq .. it is the same method hitler used on germans .. they bombed their own capital building inciting the germans to support "pre emptive" strikes on the rest of the world .. sound familiar .. you would be surprised how many german nazi now work for the us gov .. in fact osama worked for the us cia .. so now that you know the truth .. i think we can all agree that if there are more death stars .. if the empire is still intact in the rest of the universe .. the jedi will be labeled terrorist .. the empire will propagandize the death star attacks as terrorist attacks and the people of the galaxy will be too stupid to realize who the real good guys are .. if there are any real good guys out there at all ..
  22. Fleab88 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2012
    star 3
    In regards to people view of Jedi within the timeline and Motti's statement supposedly messing that up, I think that all comes down to how you view that line. people willingly forget things within a twenty year timeline. Heck we do it now and we are just on one planet. I viewed Motti's line in light of the PT as a simple, "Your religion meant nothing for all those Jedi who easily got butchered by a bunch of clones. It was a blunt insult on the past. Was it originally written that way? Unlikely, but it does fit all the same.

    I also think it needs to be pointed out that while many are aware of the Jedi, just what they are capable of has likely been unseen by the majority of the population. People hear they were generals, but few saw what they could do in battle. Eventually people would believe these stories were simply exaggerated. Jedi essentially become the old boogeyman parents tell their children about to make them go to sleep. Again, even in today's world we can forget and turn a good deal into myth.
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  23. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    I don't think anyone is saying people wouldn't like Luke. But I could see people not being all that happy or excited about the prospect of the return of the Jedi order.

    You're assuming most people think the Jedi still represent or did represent freedom and justice. Most people might still believe that it was the Jedi trying to take over that lead to the Empire in the first place. I don't think its far fetched at all that people would just rather not see the return of the super-powered warriors that in many ways lead to the Empire.
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  24. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper and Rumor Naysayer

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    May 25, 2000
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    As part of the lead-up to AotC, there was an in-universe website called holonetnews.com. Here’s a link to one of the issues. Check out the tab called “Jedi Watch” ;)
  25. Darth Trevius Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2012
    star 1
    There was just a signed legal petition forward to our US president stating the the people want the US to build a Death Star. The 25,000 signatures are not a joke and the petition is legal and must actually be considered by our gov. See this is how blindly people support empire ideals .. Clearly Palpatine is seen as the hero who died and not the rebels. Luke will be hunted down like a terrorist witch.
    Last edited by Darth Trevius, Dec 14, 2012