Speculation Jedi still hated in Episode VII

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by clone3131, Dec 13, 2012.

  1. DARTH_BELO Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2003
    star 4
    Interesting idea, this thread topic...

    I think it would've been something we could see if they were picking up right after ROTJ, where the New Republic would be reluctant to put much stock in the new Jedi order-after everything that had gone down in the last 20 years...IIRC, that is something they touched on in the Thrawn Trilogy, where there were some in the new senate or whatever that were against having the Jedi be involved in protecting the galaxy as a whole, and having anything to do with the government.

    But if it's true that this story takes place 30-40 years later, I would think they'd have moved past that, and figured all that out by then.
  2. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    Let's keep the real-world politics out of this.
  3. Darth Trevius Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2012
    star 1
    I hope you realize that Star Wars is based on "real world politics" and "real world religions". Do discussions on Star Wars really need to be limited to "ooh what color light sabers will they have this time?". I would hope Star Wars fans could handle a discussion beyond the superficial. One thing I respect about the PT is that Lucas was clearly trying to educate the masses on the bigger picture of how war comes about. All War! The over all message of Star Wars is that fear causes evil, and fear is used to manipulate good people into supporting the evils of war. Star Wars is not just about space ships and back flips, wookies and Darth Dookies .. I mean Dookus and R2's. That's why it is so popular, and interesting, and timeless.
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  4. HankSolo Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 3, 2012
    star 2
    I agree with that, and would add the following. Just because one government has been overthrown doesn't necessarily mean the people would warm up to the next one. Probably a good example of that would be during the French Revolution. How many people who were happy when the Monarchy was eliminated were happy with Robespierre?
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  5. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    That's nice. However I didn't stutter. If you want to discuss politics then go to the senate forum.
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  6. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    For once we agree. However, this is directed at Darth Boba, as long as we keep out of the politics, is real world history OK to cite?
  7. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    Sure. Let's just not let this become a political debate because Senate.
  8. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    I mean they could be hated, I could definitely see distrust. I don't like citing EU for Saga things as it is different entirely. However in Thrawn, the Jedi are not really welcomed in the New Republic, however are trusted by people who know Luke. By Jedi Academy, they grant him a training location on Yavin IV... actually they sell it to him for cheap. Then by NJO, with the Vong hunting Jedi, entire groups hate the Jedi including the Peace Brigade. On top of all of that, by LotF, another Sith becomes Chief of State, by FotJ, the CoS is trying to get the Jedi to be under the governance of the Republic.

    Needless to say, I think that if in EP7 we had a mixed bag of the galactic senate some hate Jedi others like and trust them, it would be far more realistic. Have the Jedi removed from Coruscant, it would be far more important when a Jedi goes to conference with a politician. That being said, I think the public reaction to all force users should be fear. Few would know the difference between two religions/cults. The Jedi need to be apart, mainly because I don't see the ST being as political as the PT, and probably more religious or character driven.
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  9. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    There's relatively few regular-people interactions in the prequels, but none of them react with fear. And honestly, the Senate's reaction is about what I'd expect for a body that gets described endlessly as inept, corrupt, and useless :p
  10. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    This is true, but when the Republic has had a millennium of peace, complacency sets in, even as it did with the Jedi Council and Republic. Luke will be far more vigilant of any rise from the dark side. The Republic will truly appreciate the freedoms it has. However the shadow of living under the Sith will tarnish all force users reputations. Either the Jedi will be sang as heroes, or feared due to their enemy, the Sith... Or both at the same time...

    Not to mention, it would be fun to see a normal creature slow down his speeder when he sees a guy in brown robes, like most of us do when we see a police car sitting on the side of the road
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  11. V-2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2012
    star 4
    So... How far back do we have to go? I'm a bit confused here. In what year did history become politics? When is the cut off? :confused:

    If we're discussing the pattern of revolutions in the context of theocracy, folk demons and political struggle, couldn't we just call that sociology rather than politics? :D
  12. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    Well, to be fair-even the fairly numerous prequel Jedi would've probably never been glimpsed by a typical galactic citizen (more on that in a moment) due to their relative scarcity. Per the TPM novel there's only about ten thousand in the whole galaxy; that's not really many.

    Also-their relative scarcity and where your average citizen is likely to see one (war zone, fighting against genocidal nasties like Grievous) probably results in an exaggerated positive view. Not saying that the Jedi have ever done anything out and out wrong, but I'm betting they're idealized at least as much as, say, the SEALs who killed Osama are by our society.
    Last edited by DarthBoba, Dec 14, 2012
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  13. BigAl6ft6 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 5
    Somewhat on topic, well side-topic, I do think it's entirely plausible that everyone in the entire galaxy mentally re-wrote the Jedi's abilities in the past 20 years after living under what was basically a dictatorship (and that those aforementioned Jedi were all brutally hunted down and murdered). As mentioned, people have "selective memories" about, uh, everything and that's only on this one planet. Take, like, a whole galaxy that has many star systems and have no Jedi around for over 2 decades, stuff is gonna get really played down or just flat-out forgotten.
  14. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    I think the point is to avoid divisive topics such as the Iraq War, Abortion, and such... That being said... The SEAL Team 6 reference I would agree is more history as is 9-11. When discussing the facts about previous events is History, whereas discussing the personal views about historical views such as the Vietnam War and the Iraq War would be under the Political side of things.

    I could say, and I do support this by the way, the Jedi should fight a counter insurgency against some form of terrorists, that is lead by a Dark Jedi. I think the opening diplomatic mission of the ST (since there is the Jedi Negotiations in the PT, and the Death Star Plans in the OT) should be an elite Republic commando team with a bunch of different species, along with two Jedi hitting a compound of the terrorists, and killing the leader, however discovering intel that suggests that a Sith/Dark Jedi was calling the shots. Make it like the SEAL Team 6 of the Star Wars world, imagine a corvette comes blasting through space, entering the atmosphere, flying low, the strike team jumps from above the trees small boosters slow their descent, the two Jedi force leap out... Hit the compound, Jedi tear it up... Alien captain of strike team throws thermal detonator in window. Ect...
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  15. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    Yeah, that wouldn't surprise me. especially when the main way to see one would be (probably rare given that it's a war) Holonet broadcasts. "Don't trust the media, man!"
  16. V-2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2012
    star 4
    I think it might be more interesting without the Dark Jedi as the head of a new evil, that is, to have the revolution betrayed by people with noble intentions corrupted by power.

    I'm specifically thinking of themes allegorical to the Arab Spring, with the concern that new governments increasingly resemble the old in all but official dogma... I'm also thinking of the Russian revolution, with Lenin and Stalin increasingly exploiting the superstitions and historic expectations of their citizens until they become subjects and ultimately subjugated... Also of North Korean Juche.

    I think we've done Space Nazis, let's try Space Commies or Space Theocrats.

    A corrupt dogmatic theocracy based around The Force would be, I think, rather interesting. Also the idea of a decades long multi-party insurgency post ROTJ has it's narrative appeal too. I think it would be impossible for the republic to reform quite as rapidly as it did in the novels. I'd prefer the new trilogy not to have such black and white heroes and villains - I'd really like to see Leia corrupted by power... I could accept a dark Jedi leader if it were her!
  17. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    FWIW we've already done Space Theocrats; Palpatine fits it to a T, pretty much.

    Breaking my own rule here, but the villain in Luke Skywalker And The Shadows of Mindor is a perfect enemy for an up-and-coming New Republic; he's chaotic evil. Which we haven't had in SW before.
  18. Echo-07 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2012
    star 4
    I'm not assuming anytthing. It's obvious that without the Jedi Tyrrany arose and terrorized the galaxy. You're assuming the beings of the galaxy are too stupid to understand the difference or why the Empire arose = Palpatine. You also assume that everyone's so supersticious as to think all Force users are a bad thing because they're "super-powered warriors." That's ridiculous. My statement is perfectly reasonable. Those who are loyal to the Emperor will hate and demonize the Jedi and those who want freedom will welcome them. End of story.
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  19. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    I agree with this, there are the Sith Order and the Jedi Order. What about a group of anarchists and a few force users that believe that chaos is the true State of the Empire. Not that I like the Mortis crew, but you have the Dark, the Light, the Balance, (then with the Mother) you have Chaos...
  20. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    "Some men just want to watch the world (universe) burn."
  21. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
  22. battlefrontboy Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 2012
    star 1
    It would be powerful to see the Jedi as a persecuted minority. Leia is hiding her powers from the senate, Luke is secretly training Jedi. They are eventually called upon to face a threat, and become a part of the republic government again. We've seen racism against robots after the droid wars (C3P0 being turned away from the cantina).
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  23. V-2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2012
    star 4
    I think he more resembles the Nazi leadership's obsession with the occult than a Space Ayatollah or Space Dalai Lama. It was a military dictatorship headed by members of a cult, which is not quite the same thing....
  24. LunarMoth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2012
    star 4
    I wouldn't think they would be hated not only in Ep. VII, but for some time before.

    Palpatine duped the galaxy into thinking the Jedi were bad, but surely by the time of Return of the Jedi his oppression would have given people second thoughts about anything he said or did. And remember, worlds were cheering him demise.

    Also, the public would have been under the impression, much like Palpatine and Vader, that the Jedi were extinct and would have no knowlege that it was a Jedi at the forfront of the Emperor's defeat.
  25. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    Eh, except Palpatine was the occult. I mean, the guy shot lightning from his fingers, and him dying put a universal energy field back into balance.