Speculation Jedi still hated in Episode VII

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by clone3131, Dec 13, 2012.

  1. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    The "anti-Jedi sentiment" entry on Wook is pretty interesting. From what I understand, the Jedi's secrecy and (perceived or real) isolationism led to such sentiment. People fear what they don't know, and hate what they fear. Then of course Palpatine played on that by using them as generals, making them into "Palpatine's secret police."

    I think the PPs are correct in that it was Palpatine who sold the public the idea that the Jedi were enemies, and at that time Palpatine was very popular. There were massive cheers when he declared himself Emperor--but massive cheers 23 years later at his demise. I think some anti-Jedi sentiment would exist along the lines of what Owen Lars said about their being "crazy wizards" but I don't think they would be considered "enemies" of the New Republic.

    I'm interested to see how the Jedi operate in the sequels, whether we see Luke running the Order or OCs, and how many tenets of the Old Order they keep.
    TreborSabreon and clone3131 like this.
  2. V-2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2012
    star 4
    It's true that Palpatine was a Morgan le Fay figure, but as far as I know from watching the films, the Sith cult was very limited in numbers (to say the least), Palpatine wasn't worshipped or recognised as a spiritual or supernatural representative by the masses; he didn't claim political power via spiritual or religious authority. His regime didn't impose spiritual or supernatural doctrine upon the masses as far as I can tell.

    So he was motivated by spiritual/supernatural dogma and he achieved many of his objectives via supernatural means, but his regime was militaristic, ordered (and feudal).

    Regarding your universal energy field being balanced or otherwise, that's neither here nor there. Not that this discussion is strictly on-topic. ;)
  3. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    That's true. Still, the Empire was basically ordered in a way to make the dark side (and therefore himself) more powerful. That a Sith Lord-Vader-was its Supreme Military Commander as of TESB pretty well strips the military dictatorship angle, sure, Vader had military experience in the Clone Wars, but that was decades ago, and 'Jedi General' isn't a rank any longer in any case. The supernatural has very definitely overcome the secular after Yavin, and its going to remain that way until the end of the trilogy.
  4. lord_eidolon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2004
    star 2
    The Jedi will be admired and everybody will suddenly and miraculously have memories of the events of the prequel trilogy.
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  5. V-2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2012
    star 4
    I can see what you mean, but it's still not a theocracy! Sidious and Vader were devout believers, to some extent they were the religion itself, but their beliefs weren't shown to be followed by literally anyone else in the galaxy! Religion or belief in the Force wasn't Palpatine's claim to political and military power. The Empire, like the Republic before it, had no established church or state religion for the masses (as far as I know)!

    How do you mean it strips the military dictatorship angle by the way? There's a cult at the head of the Empire, but the masses are still kept in line through military force (despite the misgivings of Vader - who probably would have imposed his spiritual beliefs on the galaxy if he could...). True, the military hierarchy is kept in line by fear of the supernatural, as would be all those closest to the Sith in the daily running of the Empire, but as you (kind of) pointed out, it's fear of the Sith's personal supernatural powers. Just to be certain, I don't mean a Holy Fear, I mean self preservation fear. The kind for which Saddam Hussein and Muammar Gaddafi were famous for inspiring in their subordinates (though one assumes those guys never used magic to electrocute or choke anyone).
    TheManFromMortis likes this.
  6. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    Perhaps they always remembered, the memories of the events were just suppressed by fear of the Empire
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  7. Lord Optimus Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2011
    star 2
    I think most people in the galaxy wouldn't even know about the Jedi returning, if Luke is training a few Jedi on a remote planet somewhere away from distractions, at least until the Jedi get their numbers back up. Luke should be more focused on restoring the Jedi Order than helping The New Republic, leave that to Lea/Han/Lando. It might be hard for Luke to convince parents of force sensitive babies to let him train them, if the parents say no then just move on to the next force sensitive baby.

    If you go by what Yoda said in TPM, a Jedi can only have one apprentice at a time. It seems like a Jedi Padawan usually becomes a Jedi Knight at about 20 years old, then they can train their own apprentice. Lets say Episode 7 is set 30-40 years after ROTJ, then there should only be 4-8 Jedi's. The first scenario being Luke trained an apprentice for 20 years, now they both have their own apprentices making a total of 4 Jedi. Or the second scenario being Luke trained an apprentice, then they both had their own apprentices, and now all 4 of them each have an apprentice making a total of 8 Jedi. If they go with the second scenario the 4 Padawans would be really young so for the sake of the story I hope they go with the first scenario. So it would be Luke and his apprentice, another Jedi and their apprentice, with both of the apprentices on the verge of becoming Knights.

    If this Is the case Luke and his fellow Jedi should be flying under the radar at least until some big bad villain shows up and The New Republic needs their help.

    I think I read somewhere that the Jedi were around 10,000 strong around the time of AOTC. If each Jedi takes on a Padawan at about 20 years old and has 2 Padawans in their life time, it would take the them around 360-380 years to get back to the numbers they had around the time of AOTC.
    Last edited by DarthOptimusPrime, Dec 14, 2012
  8. Panakas_Dawg Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2004
    star 5
    It would rock to see some new Jedi stroll into a building somewhere and see someone (maybe a bartender or whatever) give that "Oh no - they'll destroy this place!" look. Like, "here we go again."
  9. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    I always assumed they took apprentices in their teens, lets say 15 to keep the math easy. Prior to that, the apprentice lived in the temple. Then around 20 ish, they would be knighted, maybe 25. That being said, I think Luke may break the rule of only one apprentice due to Jedi demand in the galaxy.

    Lets assume however that half of every "class" of apprentices dies... I'd honestly like to see a Jedi Order greater than ten but less than fifty. You know... an Order where everyone knows your name.
  10. Lord Optimus Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2011
    star 2
    I could see this happening, desperate times call for desperate measures. After all Yoda gave Luke a crash course training session on Degobah, that's probably not the way they did things prior to the Jedi purge. Also Obi Wan just handed over a lightsaber to Luke when a important part of a Jedi's training is to construct his own. So yea I could see them bending the rules a little bit.
  11. Echo-07 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2012
    star 4
    It's kind of a snide comment that would be funny except it's not accurate. Obi-Wan and Yoda, both of whom were alive during the PT, spoke of events in the PT, albeit in ways that were mysterious and built the drama. They were styill mentioned.

    Leia mentioned events from the PT. No one knows what the Hell Chewie is saying and C-3PO had his memory wiped. So who are all these people who will "suddenly and miraculously have memories of the events from the PT?"
    Arawn_Fenn likes this.
  12. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    Eh I suppose you're right. I'd have to get into the EU to prove you wrong, but that's the wrong thread for this. :p
  13. BonhillBhoy Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 15, 2012
    Well I'd be suspicious about any non elected group having influence at a governmental level. Especially with past Sith/Jedi issues!
    V-2 likes this.
  14. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    Non elected group...you mean like the overwhelming majority of any government? :p
  15. BonhillBhoy Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 15, 2012
    Don't the various planets elect their senator's?
  16. BonhillBhoy Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 15, 2012
    I've just got what you meant.[face_blush]
  17. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
  18. lord_eidolon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2004
    star 2
    I mean if say, for instance, Luke makes a reference to midichlorians or the Battle of Geonosis. Things that weren't even invented during the OT. I know it would probably make sense in-universe, but it's still retcon.
  19. Han Shot First Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2012
    star 2
    I hope they make no reference to either!
  20. Echo-07 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2012
    star 4
    I don't have a problem with that. Why would anyone, if it's done in a natural way? For instance, IF Luke is studying the Republic's history because he wants to know more about his father what's wrong with discovering the events on Geonosis? I have no problem with that. I also have no problem with midichlorians. No doubt Luke will have investigated the Old Jedi Order as well and will probably be an expert on its history to include Sith etc... So, if he's training Padawans and teaches them about midichlorians what's the probelm?
  21. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    The problem is people want to pretend the prequels never happened.
    Darth Chiznuk, V-2 and Echo-07 like this.
  22. Echo-07 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2012
    star 4
    Anyone that can't make peace with the PT will be disappointed by the ST then. Everyone should know going in that the ST will build upon all 6 movies.
  23. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    Then why are they still interested in more Star Wars?
  24. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Because they want it to be Star Wars that never mentions the prequels.
  25. lord_eidolon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2004
    star 2
    I love the prequels. Don't get me wrong. And I think the ST should mention things from them in order to make everything congeal together,

    My original comment was more facetious than anything else.