Jedi Strike Force (SbS)--what was the point?

Okay, some have already criticized the Jedi Strike Force in Star by Star: they were too young, the scenes were hard to follow, etc. But for myself, I was left hugely frustrated and disappointed that Mr. Denning (and the editors, for that matter) ignored one simple fact:

Killing the queen does not prevent the Vong from creating more voxyn!

a) if they created a queen once, they should be able to do it again, and within a fairly short period of time.

b) I'm not up on my clone science, but why couldn't a Shaper simply grab another wild voxyn and start cloning it?

c) Killing the queen didn't cause every voxyn in existence to die, and according to Mr. Denning's description of the numbers of voxyn present on the worldship, there are still hundreds of them out there still.

d) and finally, even though they are clones, they are apparently breeding just fine in the wild.

Anakin--and half his task force--died in vain. Unless I missed something (and please correct me if I did), forming the Jedi Strike Force was perhaps the dumbest idea I've ever seen in any novel, by any author. Did anybody else feel the same way?

 

i'm with you, i'd like to see some arguments otherwise

 

They went to blow the ship, they were forced to improvise.


BTW Infitrator, you spelt straight wrong in your sig. THINK my ones right

 

thanks

 

Blowing the ship still wouldn't have solved the problem. It would just be a minor setback until they created a new queen.

 

first, define minor. Queen could take years to prepare, and no Voxyn until then. That is major.

In fact, prove they CAN make another Queen

 

OK, just a theory:

When the Jedi were running around in the Voxyn lab, they did more than just kill Voxyn. They also killed the shapers and assorted folks who were working on the Voxyn. Why is this important? Remeber that Shapers, depending on their rank, have access to certain knowledge that others may not. High ranking shapers, like those working on the Voxyn, have a high access. Maybe, when they were killed, the ability to access the Voxyn knowledge was lost with them...

I think it's mentioned in SbS that the Vong can't clone existing clones from the Queen because it doubles their deterioration rate. So, if clone #1 dies in 50 days, the clone of #1 dies in 25, etc.

Denning never actually mentions how many Voxyn are at large in the Galaxy. Besides, the mission was to eliminate the source of Voxyn, not the entire species.

The Voxyn were breeding fine in the wild, that much is true. But, because they die at a high rate, the individual life of each wild Voxyn is very short. The only reason they have survived was because of the massive amount of them in the wild. Two or three wild Voxyn could not sustain a population, whereas two or three hundred could.

Again, that's just my imagining of it

 

Killing a Shaper was a bonus... not part of the plan and not even part of a direct attack.

Anakin and Tahiri, from their experiences on Yavin IV, should have known that the Shapers keep records of any sanctioned Shaping.

The Voxyn have only been used recently in the conflict... there is no proof that they took years to create.

They made the 'queen', why not make another? The Voxyn are a recent additon to their arsenal, how long would it take to make another? It doesn't matter where the burden of proof lies in how far this set back the Vong, this is obviously something we, the casual reader, have thought of - shouldn't someone among the most experienced Jedi and Rebel fighters they have to offer have thought of this when considering risking children's lives? Why was this concept never brought up when they agonized over risking the lives of the most promising Jedi apprentices they had? It seems like a major oversight.

They knew Voxyn were genetically engineered. They knew all Yuuzhan Vong technology is genetically engineered. They knew that Voxyn have only recently shown up. They knew that one component part of the Voxyn was a creature that existed in the SW galaxy, the Vornskr, and these creatures are from Myrkr, a world the Vong would have only conquered in the past year or so, given their invasion progress and the world's location in the galaxy. Add the time required to encounter the creature and experiment on it, discover its 'secrets' in order to engineer the Voxyn and it doesn't seem reasonable to assume that it would be a major setback to just kill the queen. Throw in the knowledge that the Vong may keep records of their approved shapings and there is no reason to believe that the Voxyn will be eliminated if you take out that one queen. Not enough of a reason to risk the lives of a dozen 'children'.

No one even bothered to think "the Voxyn can't reproduce, they clone them from the queen... but they made the queen, why not make another?" Not considering the possibility, not even raising the issue - that is where things fall apart. They agonize over sending the young Jedi on this mission, and yet with only about 100 or so Jedi in the galaxy they risk a dozen to take out a Voxyn queen - not even considering that since the Vong made the first one they could make another. An unfortunate and incredibly stupid move that detracted from the story a great deal for me. Every time they went back to the mission to kill the queen I went back to that point in my head... 'They made the queen... why not make another?' It doesn't matter how feasible it is, the problem is that the issue is never addressed in the book, that no character in the book considers the possibility as intelligent, sophisticated or experienced they are supposed to be....

Anakin's death scene was good... it would have been better if there weren't plot holes you could drive a Death Star through concerning the mission he died on. VERY sloppy writing. It's an insult to the intelligence of the reader, at least it was to me.

 

Great comments, Koonie and Sinje_Gawa. You certainly have some valid theories as to why killing the queen was so important, Koonie. Perhaps they are even correct (although I have a hard time believing that the Vong wouldn't keep back-up information on the one genetic creation that consistently kills Jedi). The trouble is, as Sinje so eloquently puts it, is that the author does not spell out for us why this mission is so crucial.

I am so glad to discover that I am not the only one who was frustrated by this oversight, but at the same time I am almost loathe to pick up the next book in the series. I'm all for killing main characters, but when they die becuase they are just STUPID, then why should I care whether they will triumph over the Vong? I think I'll start another thread on this topic...

Thank you again for your comments!

 

They needed a way for Anakin to die, Jacen to be captured and for Jaina to turn to the Darkside.

 

If the Strike team didn't go, they'd have been killed anyway, in a much stupider way.

Besides, the Vong know that the battle is really a game of confuse-the-enemy. If they keep cranking out voxyns, a weakness will be discovered. With a sample of voxyn spit, some scientists could probably whip up an antidote for it.

But I still hope they'll address this more in later books.

 

Reply to Wes:

True, they needed a way for Anakin to die, Jacen to be captured, and Jaina to go dark, but I can think of several plot devices that could yield the same result without the characters themselves being dumb. For example, they get ambushed by an vong-Interdictor on their way somewhere: Ani dies, Jacen is captured, Jaina freaks out. The result is the same, but I'm a lot more satisfied. Hell, make it better yet, Nom Anor tricks them into flying that path, so the Vong actually have to work for their meal, rather than having it handed to them on a silver platter.

 

I, too, was startled by the major illogicalities involved in the Jedi strike team mission. Most of the problems have been mentioned by other people here. The simple fact of the matter is that there is nothing in the book that shows how the Jedi would know that killing the voxyn queen would put an end to the threat.

Another problem is that the voxyn, which were being portrayed as a major threat to the very existence of the Jedi at the beginning of the book, were seemingly being killed by the dozen towards the end of the book. If the Jedi could handle voxyn so easily, why try such a risky mission to eliminate them?

 

These Jedi were ready for them. Corran and Mirax werent. The YJK one who died wasnt.

They were there, lightsabers drawn. The YJKer was going through a field. Corran was getting supplies(or similar). No comparison




The simple fact of the matter is that there is nothing in the book that shows how the Jedi would know that killing the voxyn queen would put an end to the threat.

And there was no proof in WW2 that invading France would help in the war effort. Sometimes you have to try things. Remember, these are desperate times.


Also, they DIDNT go to kill the queen. They went to destroy the Worldship, that has the Queen AND a shedload of Voxyn

 

i believe that it was stated in another book that there hasn't been another huge creature like the gravity device that brought down sernpidal's moon because it would take too long and take up too many needed supplies. maybe creating another voxyn queen would take too much time or too much raw material that is being used somewhere else. not the best explanation...but one worth considering.

 

I remember a sequence early in SBS, after Ulaha Kore and Eryl Besa retrieved a voxyn body and returned it to Eclipse, where Cilghal was studying evidence and tissue samples from various voxyn and Cilghal discovers that all the voxyn have an accelerated deterioration rate, (i.e., "short life span"). Cilghal also discovers that the voxyn are originating from only one source, only one template - what is ultimately, "the queen." And given that the voxyn "clones" are originating from only one source, then one could deduce that that source does NOT suffer the same short life span weakness. By studying the distinctive contents of one voxyn's stomach, the Jedi also deduced that the voxyn must be originating from somewhere near Myrkr,

(Note, Greg Keyes started the "voxyn" possible thread in EV:C when the YV discover the existence (and by implication, the "significanse") of vornskyrs on Myrkr. This is the beginning of the timeframe regarding the Shaper(s) creating the voxyn).

The ONLY CERTAINTY to controlling the production of voxyn, at this point, is to "take out the queen." The remaining "clone voxyn" will die out shortly - (whatever/whenever that means) - and there is NO evidence of any other "queens" at this time.

The Jedi had already lost Numa Rar, Lusa, Lyric, Eelysa to voxyn - and nearly lost Corran Horn, Alema Rar, Leia Organa Solo to voxyn. We have no idea how many other Jedi and/or Force Adepts have been killed by voxyn at this time.

The YV are obviously intent on purging the Jedi, they have aggressively and affirmatively pursued that goal since AC:HT - and now they have "Jedi hunters" - in the form of voxyn - to aid in that goal. By being able to smuggle voxyn onto Corellia, a key Core world with presumably high security (CorSec, NR, shipyards, Centerpoint, etc.), demonstrates the ability of the YV to threaten the Jedi anywhere. The YV have demonstrated time and time again how effective they are in infiltration. (Didn't Leia and Han also thwart an attempt to smuggle voxyn onto Coruscant? Didn't Numa Rar and Alema Rar demonstrate the "hunting prowess" - whether "on ship" or "in system" - of a voxyn from the get go? Didn't Leia demonstrate the same later on?)

The range - in terms of distance in territory - of voxyn attacks alone demonstrates how far reaching this threat is: Eelysa and Corran on Corellia (Core), Lusa on Chiron (ORT), Leia near Coruscant (Core), and Lyric on Yavin 8 (ORT).

Perhaps the Shapers can create another "voxyn queen" - but perhaps they can't. Are all Shapers as adept and/or as capable in this voxyn endeavor? Are there any records that might allow for this possility? Did Anakin and/or Jacen, with insights from Vergere, destroy any records that might allow the YV to create a new Voxyn queen? Were the YV lucky to have succeeded with only this one "voxyn queen" to begin with?

IS THE ABSENCE OF ANY OTHER VOXYN QUEENS A SIGNIFICANT DETAIL TO NOTE? (i.e., might that detail on some level imply how difficult it is to create a voxyn queen to begin with?)

There is no evidence to suggest another queen may exist. And even though there is evidence of voxyn nests - there is no evidence that the voxyn can "successfully breed." I think SBS points to the contrary. (Note, Cilghal might have pointed out this breeding deficiency early in SBS).

The only thing that's certain, from the Jedi's POV, is that the voxyn are originating from ONE SOURCE, the "queen" - and that the numbers of BOTH voxyn attacks and Jedi deaths - in a very short time span - ARE INCREASING.

Sitting idle (i.e., taking NO action) is NOT a viable option. Will the Jedi even learn as much without going to the source, (i.e., intelligence gathering? Wasn't intelligence gathering a consistent theme with Luke dispatching the Jedi early on in the Dark Tide books?)

The Jedi are being killed - with minimal loss to the YV - by voxyn - that can be produced in unknown greater numbers from one source. Can a sufficient number of Jedi be produced in that "same short time span" to offset the rate of voxyn producti