Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by rezpen, Dec 2, 2012.
Don't think so, no.
The Emperor threw floating pods at remaining Senators for fun, then had the rest sent to the mines of Kessel because he's that hardcore.
People seem to forget the fact that a big chunk of the galaxy was happy after the empire fell and I would imagine they would be even happier if the Republic was once again restored. Grassroots movements led by rebellions can change things people!!!!
True. Sometimes you get the United States of America. Pretty brutal war, where a small minority siding with the Crown, ultimately led to a pretty quick change over to peace* and democracy. *Peace is a relative term. We've been pretty violent all the way thru. But for the sake of the argument related to GFFA, I'll leave it at that.
Sometimes you get the French Revolution. The people rose up with the lower business Aristocrats, against their King who they brought up on treason. The result wasn't so clean cut. Napoleon was the result. They got rid of a Monarchy, and ushered in the first modern dictatorship..
Sometimes you get Rome. Empire fell due to it's own weight. Civilization fell. Barbarian hordes invaded. A superstitious Dark Age enveloped the entire continent, except for Southern Spain. Plumping wasn't re-invented until 1000 years later in Europe.
I'd say if the ST is going to be a direct continuation of the galactic storyline, it would much more interesting to see the decline of a civilization from Golden Age to Empire to True Dark Age. I think the ST could be about bringing the light back to the galaxy.
Didn't Return of the Jedi bring light back to the galaxy?
I still think there will still be some sort of imperial remnnant still lurking around waiting for the new republic to slip up and for them to once again try to "Unite the galaxy under their little banner."
It depends on how you take the ending, TBH. Yeah, IMO (and I suspect most of the forum) the ending of ROTJ is clearly supposed to be taken as "the Empire has fallen, the Republic will be restored, etc. etc." Sort of how Sauron's Empire disintegrates with the Ring being gone. Which in a series that's 98% fantasy-based is entirely appropriate.
But, if you take things from a reality-based view...that's not all that plausible. It's a Galactic Empire, subdivided down into sectors ruled over by mini Emperors (the Moffs); I could see the war (if not the deeper conflict of Jedi & Sith) continuing for years after Endor. It has a legal, realistic basis-Palpatine is the Emperor because the Senate made him one, albeit helped along by his own sinister powers; it's not just going to vanish overnight because Palpatine is dead. I'd imagines dozens of brutal little fiefdoms with untold numbers of citizen-slaves still yearning for the light of the reborn Republic to reach them after ROTJ if that sort of tack is taken.
Exactly! Yes, RotJ brought light back to the Galaxy. But even light has a speed.
If the saga ends at Ep 6, then sure, the Rebels won, the Empire is overturned, the Emperor is dead, Vader is redeemed. Pretty classy. If Ep 7-9 are a continuation of the storyline, then that light could take a little time to shine on all parts of the galaxy. The Rebels might be on top, they might have established power directly after the events of RotJ. I hope they didn't party in the trees for too long, cause there would be some pretty angry power hungry Imperials looking to snatch power right back up.
Think of it this way; if in our near future the democratic, republican nations of this Earth form together and become a New World Order Governing Body, it would be bad news if only because there would be no outside pressure from Non-NWO Governments to force us into doing what's right. There would no escape. There would be no nation vs nation battles, because all nations, all citizens, are part of that system. Similar to a Galaxy wide Empire. So, if a small rebel force, somehow took down some element of that Worldwide Governing body, the other vast planet wide element left over would probably fill in the hole rather quickly. If that rebel force took power, it would take a long time to battle off the remnants of that other portion.
The Light Side of the Force may have returned. But try telling that to Imperials hungry for power.
I have to admit, though, that this is all getting a little too serious and reality based even for my likes. I just think the ST will have our heroes already setting up a new government with Imperial shadows all around them.
The Sequel Trilogy will definitely fill in some of the blanks.
I'd like to see these tied in somehow.
How sure can we be that the moffs can still rule:
1. Without Palpatine using the Dark Side to help them
2. People who KNOW that the Empire is a puppet of the Sith
3. People who have always had democracy
1. Where in the films does it say that Palpatine used his powers at all to help them? Especially given that Tarkin seemed convinced that overwhelming firepower was the only way to maintain the Empire.
2. Like, who, exactly? Bail Organa is space dust. Yoda and Obi-Wan are dead. So is Darth Vader. Not to mention that the general galactic populace is never shown to know what a Sith is, or even that the Emperor has Force powers.
3. A corrupt, inefficient democracy is better than ruthless totalitarianism, but then, the Moffs had fleets and mindlessly loyal troopers to keep their populaces cowed. What 'the people' want may not amount to much.
1. The ROTJ novelization.
2. Luke and Leia. I always figured it all comes out at the end of ROTJ.
3. See above, and the people seem to be rising up.
1. Show me in the film, please.
2. Neither the novel nor the film backs you up. Again, there's zero indication that anyone beyond the core characters even really understands what a Sith is.
3. Rebellions aren't always successful. I agree with you that the ending is supposed to show the downfall of the Empire (and honestly I hope that's what the new films reflect), but I don't think it holds water from a 'realistic' POV.
Offscreen uprisings around the galaxy, I suppose.
Eh, yeah...disarmed populaces don't really have too great a success record against brutal dictatorships.
Especially when they don't have wood or rocks at their disposal. I have no clue how the people of Coruscant would hope to have a chance without the materials to make catapults, gliders, and slingshots.
I want to know how many people were crushed by that Emperor statue.
1. Paply didn't seem to have thought control over anyone. Except, maybe, maybe...Vader. His officers seem to be terrified of him. He's all about force (the real kind) and power and technology and using it blow planets up to show the true power of the Empire. Why blow up a planet up if you can just Force Suggest your way into people's hearts.
2. While I'm sure there's plenty of references to the Sith and what they are outside of the films, that word was never spoken in film form until TPM. That said, Luke was barely told of anything from the Old Republic days during his on screen teachings from Yoda and Ben. By the end of RotJ, it seems clear that there is a LOT that they simply didn't choose to tell him; namely, he had a freaking sister. (And that was after he found out they lied to him about his Dad.)
Ben "Why so glum chum?"Luke: "Oh, no reason. My Aunt and Uncle who raised me my whole life just got vaporized. No Biggie"Ben. "Yea, that's too bad. Can't..help you out there with anything that might lift your spirits up." (Walks away whistling, even though he just saw his sisters recording on R2)
Throughout the OT, Ben and Yoda constantly tell Luke a very limited point of view history (they make the Whills cry in their golden grahams) I'm sure as Luke is handing himself over to Vader in RotJ, he's secretly thinking "I hope those two didn't leave anything else out"
And, even if - IF - Luke tells his sister of the true religion of the Emperor and his sidekick, their dear ol' dad, you know guy who tortured her in ANH, nobody seems to actually make a bloody difference between Sith and Jedi. It was seen as one old ancient useless - not as good as a old blaster at your side - religion. I think that with 20 years of no jedi, people seemed to have forgotten about their influence.
3. The people who were alive didn't really know of democracy. They knew of corruption, of nepotism, of authoritative rule. When the Rebels over threw the Empire in Ep 6, they'd have to place themselves in positions of power, or remnants of the Empire would just shallow up any upstarts. I'm sure that the people would be really happy and would be all for democracy..but...like 30 years of Empire. That just isn't gonna go away over night. There are like, forms to signs and stuff.
I think it's true that the Light side came back in Ep. 6 and so the Rebels would have the upper hand in getting rid of Imperial control, but it wouldn't just be as quick as snapping your fingers. or...Oops, The Empire Vanished all of a sudden and all of the stormtroopers would just tilt up and shake their heads like robots and go..."Where...Am I? ... Why am...I ...here? Why do I smell like death and destruction? Why do I taste Imperial Fried Chicken on my breath. OHHH GOD I'm an Imperial Stormtrooper!!!"
How do we know they were disarmed?
Typical ambulance chaser.
Weirdly, at the Coruscant celebration, you do see (and hear) a stormtrooper getting mauled by the masses. What on Urf were those masses waiting for this whole time?
Oh well. I'd say that, compared to the Imperial troops on Endor, the guy caught in the Coruscant celebration probably had a good ending. Did you see those helmets that that one Ewok was drumming on?? What do you think happened to those people? Did you see those campfires, what do you think those campfires were for? Yah.
Because the overwhelming majority of dictatorships (including the one most closely the basis for the Empire, Nazi Germany) have made that one of their first priorities? Why would any dictatorship, especially one as so single-mindedly bent on power with a capital P as the Empire, allow anyone the means to resist that power?
Explain the Rebel Alliance.