Jediism

Discussion in 'Milwaukee, WI' started by Jedi_Knight_Isadore, Apr 12, 2003.

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  1. Jedi_Knight_Isadore Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 1, 2002
    star 1
    For the past 3-4 weeks, I have been going to an online forum for Jediism. This is a set of beliefs and a way of life based on the Jedi in SW, even though it is taking on a life of its own. What makes it nice is that it can fit with just about any religion.

    I have met a lot of wonderful people and I am starting to find out things about myself that I forgotten, or didn't know. It is a wonderful place.

    The webpage is Jediism.org and the main forum is jedireligion.org

    I am wondering what people think of it. Is this something you would be interested in getting involved with? Would you be interested in forming a Jedi chapter here in Milwaukee? Please let me know.


    peace, love, and light
    Devan (Isadore_Galicia)
  2. Bishop76 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 1, 2002
    star 3
    Although I do enjoy the occasional bout of escapism (be it movies, video games, etc) I'm kinda thinking that this whole Jediism thing borders on crazy. While I enjoy the Star Wars movies, I don't think I'm going to choose to live my life based on them.

    Jeff
  3. Forcebewitya Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2002
    star 4
    "this whole Jediism thing borders on crazy"

    Yeah, I agree.

    Forcebewitya!
  4. Idaara Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2002
    star 3
    I admit that I haven't had a chance to explore the web site more (I study religions as a hobby), so I can't say for sure if I'd be interested as of yet. As far as religions go, each person has to choose their own path...I'm sure if others are interested, they will let you know. Religion is a very personal choice and no one can (or should) make up their mind too quickly on something that will affect their whole life.

    Although I do enjoy the occasional bout of escapism (be it movies, video games, etc) I'm kinda thinking that this whole Jediism thing borders on crazy. While I enjoy the Star Wars movies, I don't think I'm going to choose to live my life based on them.

    I don't totally disagree with you, Jeff.

    I am not defending Jediism, because as I stated, I haven't looked into it yet. However, Lucas's vision of "religion" in relation to the Force actually has parallels in other religious expression. For one example, being Wiccan, I can identify with the Force. In Wicca, there is a lot of work with personal, environmental and shared energies. The parallel comes from Yoda in ESB (from novel): "For my ally is the Force. And a powerful ally it is. Life creates it and makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Feel it you must. Feel the flow. Feel the Force around you. Here, between you and me and that tree and that rock. Yes, everywhere, waiting to be felt and used." So there are people who are living parts of the Jedi beliefs (movie/book version) and don't realize it.
  5. Auraveda Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 2001
    star 4
    */ Slowly backs out of thread /*


    Oh... I'm not touching this...
  6. TheWampas1138 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2002
    star 4
    While I can't think of a better place to put a thread about Jedism...I can't really think of anything to say that would have remotely positive consequences on this conversation so..

    So, yeah, I'll be over by Dawn.


    M
  7. Mauler_II Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 2002
    star 3
    While I understand taking aspects of "jediism" from the movies and incorporating that into a religion, I think actually calling it "Jediism" is the part that is a bit over the top. Call it new age Liquidscooperism or something.

    BTW - an argument could be made that jedis are not following a religion but rather following a value/code system. Here's my argument:

    Religion be definition requires faith in the unknowable. If it is knowable, it is science, not religion. The force has been "proven" to exist in the the SW universe at many different times and even has a physical manifestation (midechalorians or whatever). Therefore, the basis for an actual "faith" in the force is a bit like having a religion revolving around bic pens. There's really not a whole lot of mystery there...
  8. Jedi_Knight_Isadore Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 1, 2002
    star 1
    First of all, I don't want to convert anyone. That was not my entention. I wanted more to see if there was anyone else here interested in this, someone that isn't spaning the globe, that I could talk with.

    This is becoming an important aspect in my life, and I would like to share it with others. I don't see it as an excape as in a role playing sense. This isn't about playing a Jedi as in what is portrayed in the movies, but a way of self discovery, of self fulfillment, bringing something positive back to the world. Personally, the only only thing I am seeing that is similar to the SW films is the titles. And I am not seeing it really as a religion, but as a code of morals, and a way for self discovery, and I am sorry if I offended anyone by this thread.

    On the webpage, there is a link to a news article about Jediism and within it, there are facts about it. I would just like to share them with you all.

    --------------
    The Jedi facts

    The Jedi Religion -- an online faith-based organization -- believes one all-encompassing driving force influences the destiny of the universe.

    They believe meditation opens the door to higher perception, unlocking perfect wisdom.

    To be a Jedi Knight, one must achieve a unanimous vote from the Jedi Council, exhibiting mastery of four quadrants -- the physical, mental, emotional and spiritual.

    Twenty-one maxims guide the beliefs of a Jedi Knight: Prowess, Justice, Loyalty, Defense, Courage, Faith, Humility, Fearlessness, Nobility, Franchise, Pure Motive, Discipline, Focus, Discretion, Meditation, Training, Integrity, Morality, Engaging in Conflict, Intervention and Harmonizing.

    A ranking in Jediism ascends in the following order: guest, Jedi Apprentice, Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight Commander/Jedi Scholar, Jedi Master/Jedi Priest.

    The Jediism movement acknowledges all faiths with reverence and values inner enlightenment as well as peace.
    -------------

    I hope that I don't make anyone feel unconfortable with this. As I said before, I just wanted to share something important in my life with everyone here. I am sorry that I made people unconfortable with it. Hope to talk with you about other things.

    Devan
  9. Idaara Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2002
    star 3
    Lucas refered to it as a religion, albeit mockingly, in SW through Han and whoever it was Vader choked when he was with the Moffs (I'm bad at minutia).

    Again, what I said above was in no way an endorsement of the religion known as Jediism.

    I'm reminded of a Dilbert cartoon where Wally tells Dilbert that he believes God created the earth because He hates people and that coffee tastes better when stirred with one's finger. Dilbert says, "Seems like a lonely relgion." Wally states that they all start out that way.

    Devan, if you are happy with what you believe, then believe. To heck with what any other person in the world thinks. I just ask you to be cautious because, and I'm not saying Jediism is one, but cults find ways to draw people in and then demand more than a person should ever have to give up. If Jediism is truly a religion, then I'm glad you found your path.
  10. jedi_kiss_rock_ Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 12, 2002
    star 1
    Each have there own. :)

    blessings
    jkr

    mtfbwy
  11. Hintermister Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2003
    Hi there! I'm sure Isadore knows who I am.

    I'd just like to say to the people that think Jediism is cazy, you might want to check it out before you make comments. Jediism is a good religion, not totally based on the movies. It has the good aspects of Chivalry,Taoism, and Buddhism. Personally I think it makes us better as people. Personally, if you make fun of us, I wonder why you are a member of a star wars website..... Check it out before you make skeptical comments. Its not bad.

    JA Hintermister
  12. marajoan Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2002
    star 3
    Anything that creates a more charitable approach to others is great in my book. As with any group, trust your own instincts not to be pushed into something that you don't feel comfortable doing. The whole idea of the Jedi is based on some of the better aspects of the prevalent religious beliefs of our time. I have a hard time finding fault with someone who wants to integrate those beliefs into their everyday life. It would be nice if more people who called themselves Christians would try that.
  13. TheWampas1138 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2002
    star 4
    Uhmm...yeah. The point is this is a Star Wars board and if you have a religious belief or moral code regardless if it's based on Star Wars, Budhism, Judiasm or woodchucks, this isn't the place to talk about it and most certainly not the place to get into a theological discussion.


    M
  14. TheWampas1138 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2002
    star 4
    I think philosophy would be a more appropriate term. You cannot create a religion based on something you know isn't true, something that you know was created for entertainment. To take the example to extremes, it would be like creating Keeblerism, a religion based on the work of cookie-making elves. You know it's a marketing campaign, it's based on nothing more than imagination. As Mauler said, religion is based on faith. How can you have faith in something you know is made up? Faith is the belief in the unseen and unproven. It's something inside people that makes them choose to believe something that science cannot prove. There are people who recruit vampires and have lords and masters. You can enjoy vampire lore without wanting to be one.

    Now, if you decide it's a philosophy and that you feel those tenants are important, that's all fine and dandy. There's nothing wrong with the points of the order that were listed, they're all fine things to be. But you can't call it religion.

    As for how dare we be on a Star Wars board and find criticisms in Jediism, I think we're the most qualified to debate it. People already think that the whole lot of us are nerds or freaks. I have to admit that my love for Star Wars has few bounds, but I find others taking it too far.

    You have to admit no matter how sane this seems from within the ranks, from the outside, it seems strange. Think of it, people dedicated to Star Wars, think it's a little much. Besides, I don't think there's a religion or philosophy in the history of the world that didn't meet with critics (or flaming torches for that matter).

    If Jediism makes you better people, then by all means, follow it with all your hearts. But I suspect anyone who is willing to join already believes in loyalty, honesty and the other tenants doesn't need a council of others to tell them they're worthy people.

    Dwayne

  15. Red_Jedi_Knight Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 7, 2002
    star 3
    first off I wanna say that I think this is the perfect place to have a discussion about philosophy or theology or whatever you wanna call it. main reason for that is because it is a discussion, not an argument and not a fight. devan just wanted a few opinions and I say that is valid. however, devan you really shouldn't need other peoples approval to do what you do. Like Idaara said ?if you are happy with what you believe, then believe."

    now to the main topic of my post.
    a religion is a group of people who hold similar beliefs in something.
    Webster says:
    Etymology: Middle English religioun, from Latin religion-, religio supernatural constraint, sanction, religious practice, perhaps from religare to restrain, tie back - more at RELY
    Date: 13th century
    1a: the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion> b (1): the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2): commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
    2: a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
    3: archaic: scrupulous conformity: CONSCIENTIOUSNESS
    4: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

    I believe number 2 to be the important idea. Hintermister said that jediism contains aspects from Chivalry, Taoism, and Buddhism. All religion seems to be spawned or born from each other. And while the idea of the force is only created for a movie really can?t hold much water. Star Wars is science fiction as we all know and so much of the fiction has slowly becoming fact. Cloning was sci fi until Dolly, Jules Verne wrote about powered submarines years before they were common. Edward Everett Hale imagined artificial orbital satellites in a short story called The Brick Moon in 1869, long before space flight existed, Rudyard Kipling took the nascent idea of the aeroplane and described transatlantic airmail postage and trade in With the Night Mail (1905); in reality, regular transatlantic airmail flights didn't occur until about 1939. The Encyclopaedia of Science Fiction has Edwin Balmer "predicting" the lie detector in The Achievements of Luther Trant (1910). (info from here http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/07/18/1026898878589.html)

    So who is to say that the force might not be real? The human brain is an incredibly complicated organ and we have very little knowledge of how it works. What do you say then to people who somehow are actually able to predict the future? Now I know this is not the best example but there are so many things that happen inside a person?s head and so much energy flying around that who is to say that there isn?t something fairly similar to the force? Also we don?t know everything about the human body as a whole, who?s to say that some day in the future, some doctor or scientist might not find some midi chlorians?

    Personally, I have been living by the Jedi doctrine for maybe four years now. You have to understand I am a confirmed catholic and have been catholic all my life, but the ideas help within the Jedi are very appealing to someone who is losing faith. Therefore, under the assumption that everything is made by God(who ever your god is put them here) and that all things are possible through God, I was able to see a connection between the force and God. The reason so few people know about this is because I don?t want to be questioned constantly by the girls in my school, who are (for lack of a better word) totally close minded.
    I will agree that we are the best people to discuss this because we do know so much about the history of the ?religion?(notice little ?r?). The religion devan speaks of does not seem to have a supreme being but I don?t know if that is truly a requirement. Webster says that it can be ?God? or something supernatural and who can say that the force, in it existence on earth, isn?t supernatural. you might even be able to see the glimpses of the force we do have. Telepaths, fortune tellers, ?witches?, and normal people who can just do weird things. Now again I?m not saying these are the best
  16. TheWampas1138 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2002
    star 4
    Actually, I'm going to have to strongly disagree with you. Religion is a point of contention and those who believe strongly will defend their positions with fervor. There is nothing controversial about a discussion based on faith. There is nothing to discuss because there can be no logical discussion in the case of a held belief. You either believe or you do not. There is no discussion.

    Challenging the beliefs of others OR more to the point voicing your unsolicited belief is poor manners and poor judgement e on a board dedicated to Star Wars. This is not the forum to discuss beer or bars why would religious beliefs be up for discussion? If it's because a minor might be influenced by such things, how influencial will discussions about a Jedi Religion which sounds 'really cool' be on a kid.

    Star Wars is fictional and I mean fictional in the strongest sense of the word in that it was invented from George Lucas' brain with very little Science to back it up. For crying out loud, TIE fighters make noise in the vacuum of space. This is not science this is entertainment.

    Discussing politics is fine. Discussing Religion has never left anyone feeling good about anything. It's like arguing whether or not Blue is a better color than Red.

    Talk about which Wampa was cooler, talk about what your favorite Star Wars planet is..there is no sense in talking about Star Wars in terms of Religion. There is no common ground.


    M
  17. TheWampas1138 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2002
    star 4
    Yes, a lot of things from science fiction have become fact now, but they are all technologically based, not spiritually, supernaturally or any other non scientific origin. The Force won't suddenly exist because people wrote about it. And who is to say that the Force isn't real? Well, a few thousand years of human history is a good place to start. There are no documented cases of people choking each other with mind powers. No one has lifted a car without touching it or acting upon it with some scientific force such as magnetism.

    If people want to follow the guidelines of the Jedi, that's all fine and dandy, but to say that they actually believe there is a force binding the universe, that allows people to alter things with their mind, that's a little out there. That's Yuri Geller territory. That's Pet Psychic territory. In my honest opinion, people are choosing to believe in the Force so that a group of council people that made up the "religion" will label them Jedi. Well, it won't make them Jedi.

    I think the best comparison would be if I suddenly decided I believed in mutant genetics and formed an X-men religion. Lots of people would like to be Storm, but I'm pretty sure human genetics will never get freakishly out of hand to the point where people can control the weather. We can't even accurately predict the weather.

    So if a lot of people want to go around preaching the virtues of harmony, peace, loyalty and courage, I encourage them to do so. But don't tell me there is a Force, there isn't. It was made up so that George Lucas could tell a story. It does not exist now and will not exist in the future no matter how much we wish it to. There might be Stormtrooper or Mandalorian armor in the future, there might be AT-ATs, but there will never be mind control powers based on anything other than strong mind-altering drugs. And even that is a far stretch.

    Have fun with Jediism if that's your choice, but don't try to influence others that it's a valid religion. Philosophy, fine. But you can't really say it combines other religions. It might steal from them, but to really take from Buddhism, don't you have to accept that there is a Buddha? To take from Christianity you have to believe in Christ. Religion isn't a salad bar, if you want the fried rice, you have to order the full meal.

    Dwayne
  18. Jedi_Knight_Isadore Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 1, 2002
    star 1
    Okay, first I want to make something clear, do I believe in the force, yes, because it is the life force running through everything. It is what makes life possible, the reason why we are here. You may call it God, Jesus, Mother Earth, or countless other things. To quote Shakspeare "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet." I choose to call it the force, but is it the same as anyother name. On a second note, do I think I can alter people's minds and lift cars and stuff like that, no, unfortunally, I don't. That is the work of George Lucas and his movies.

    To me, Jediism has helped me live again. I am much less pessimistic about my life, I am able to deal with things a lot better, and I am learning to find my own light within myself. It has helped me become a better person. And I don't see it as a religion, but as a philosophy, a way of life.

    Now to address the subject of "stealing from other religions" lets talk about Christianity. Do you celebrate Christmas and Easter, well sorry to burst your bubble, but those were taken from the old pagan religions as a means to convert them to christianity. Do you put up a tree at Christmas time, or place bunnies and eggs around the house at Easter, both of those are pagan practices. Even the name Easter comes from the spring equinox sabbat of Ostara (aka Eostar or Oestre). So please don't look down upon my beliefs because they steal from other religions, when your own as already done it.

    Thank you
    Love and Light
    Devan
  19. TheWampas1138 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2002
    star 4
    The point is you can't be a christian and not believe in Jesus Christ. You can't be Buddhist and deny that Buddha ever lived...

    If you're getting what you want out of it knock yourself out, but if George Lucas made it, it isn't a religion. It's a philosphy which I personally have no problem with (not that it should make any difference to you in the least if it's what you believe in). If it makes you a better person and gives you what you need have at it. However, if you came here looking for approval or acceptance this is the wrong board because with anything which is marginal at best, if you talk about it in a public place, expect to take flack about it. If you don't want to hear it, don't talk about it. You will not convince anyone who isn't already convinced.

    Personally, I don't care what you believe. I don't really care what anyone believes. It isn't any of my business which was exactly my point about 5 posts ago.

    As for telling me what I believe in...you don't know that and guess what, you don't get to know because I barely talk about it. Why? Because it isn't anyone's business and it has NOTHING to do with this board.

    And that sums up everything I have to say about this. (actually, I've already spent way too much time on it). So, knock yourselves out. Good luck with it. Don't be offended..it's a discussion. It's your belief, hope it continues to work for you.

    HBP

    M


  20. Rick_Sith Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 2, 2002
    star 3
    If I remember correctly, Devan has said a few times that Jediism is NOT her religion. So why argue the point of it being a religion or not? Who cares if someone wants to think it's a religion for themselves? The way I see it, if it doesn't affect me in any way, then they can do or believe what they want.

    I can see how Jediism as a philosophy or "way of life" could benefit some people, if they wish it to. If any way of life helps someone, then I don't have a problem with it. It seems to me that Devan understands and realizes that she is not a Jedi in the sense that is portrayed on the silver screen, or ever will be. What I am getting from her comments is that she is only taking the philosophic aspects of the Jedi (Jedi Code) to guide herself through life. If it works for her, that's great. I'm sure others would have trouble with trying to do the same for many reasons, but that is their own issues to deal with, if they so choose.

    I think keeping an open mind when discussing things such as this would reduce many arguments and maybe even allow some to see the point that was originally made.
    I'm sure if anyone doesn't wish to be open-minded, they will have to get used to whatever arguments that may arise from it.
  21. TheWampas1138 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2002
    star 4
    Okay I'm just going to say this...

    Direct Quote:

    I am wondering what people think of it. Is this something you would be interested in getting involved with? Would you be interested in forming a Jedi chapter here in Milwaukee? Please let me know.

    Devon:
    This is a public board with a lot of different people. When you ask for opinion, expect opinion even if it may not be what you want to hear. You asked, we gave. You got /exactly/ what you asked for..just because you don't like the content doesn't change anything.

    Rick:
    And do not assume close-mindedness, I have an opinion, I stated it. I also clearly stated that what someone believes isn't any of my business. Believe in Bic Pens if you like. It makes no difference to me. But if someone asks me what I think about something..unfortunately, I tell them honestly. People often don't like to hear honesty, apparently Devon didn't. I can't help that.


    HBP

    M
  22. Rick_Sith Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 2, 2002
    star 3
    Marcy, I think you and I are agreeing, for the most part.

    My bringing up of open or closed minds was not directed to any one person in particular, it was an overall general statement which I made after reading all of the posts. If anyone thinks I directed it towards them, it was not my intention.
  23. Bishop76 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 1, 2002
    star 3
    I still think it's kinda crazy.

    HBP

    Jeff
  24. TheWampas1138 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2002
    star 4
  25. Idaara Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2002
    star 3
    I want to apologize for responding to this thread in the first place. I think this should become a dead issue for many reasons, and I'm going to ask Sebulba-X to close the thread. There is no one who is 100% right in this "discussion" (some arguements (on both sides) have holes big enough to drive trucks through), and I think it's getting out of hand. I'm sorry if this makes anyone upset with me, but I think it needs to be done.
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