1. The Jedi Council Forum Rules have been revised.

    View the revisions here, and see the Communications thread for more details.

Amph Jeph Loeb hates you and all your kind (Ultimatium)

Discussion in 'Archive: SF&F: Books and Comics' started by Soontir-Fel, Nov 3, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Soontir-Fel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 2001
    star 5
    Hey. Remember when the Marvel Ultimate line seemed to be full of promise and had a decent book other than Ultimate Spider-Man?

    Well those days are well and dead.

    You people bought Ultimates 3. You really have no one to blame for this but yourselves.
  2. Spiderfan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 2004
    star 6
    This was in the works before Ultimates 3. And think of it this way...just about every book besides Ultimate Spider-Man could possibly be canned. Its nice to see that they are doing something to break up the stagnation thats been spreading through the Ultimate U since Ultimates 2 wrapped up.
  3. Darth-Lando Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2002
    star 6
    This has been in the works since before Ultimates 3 even came out I think. Besides, after Ultimatum, Ultimate X-Men and Ultimate Fantastic Four are going to end their runs at #100 and #60 respectively. Then, Mark Millar is returning to the Ultimate Universe and writing Ultimate Avengers and all will be right in the world.
  4. NJOfan215 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2003
    star 5
    I didn't know that those two were ending. I'm looking foreward to mark millar coming back to the ultimate universe.
  5. Darth-Lando Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2002
    star 6
    #1 is out. Finch's work is great as usual and Loeb's dialogue has definitely improved since Ultimates 3. Still not good, but better. Here's some spoilers for those who haven't read it:

    Somehow, massive flash floods completely cover NYC. Spider-Man and his school friends (Hey Loeb, thanks for spoiling how the current USM arc ends btw) are on an elevated train when the flood hits, Kitty phases Peter to the roof of the train so he can go do help or something. How he plans to web up a flood is a mystery though. Angel, Dazzler, Nightcrawler, and Beast are all walking downtown when the water takes them over. Angel flies out carrying Dazzler but she is dead. Kurt and Hank are MIA. The Ultimates are training or something. Giant-Man grows to escape the water while screaming for Jan, she's MIA along with Hawkeye. Iron Man rescues Cap from the water. The FF are in the Baxter Building but that doesn't prevent Johnny and Dr. Storm from being flooded. Johnny is seen trying to swim to safety while Dr. Storm floats there looking pretty dead. Ben fights a whale. Sue pushes back the water out of the city but it almost kills her and she goes into a coma. Reed gets pissed and goes to find Namor, who he naturally blames for the floods. Finds Namor, they fight, Namor is subdued when Reed hits him with a sciencey thing. We see Doom in Latveria where everything is freezing over. Then Prof. X sends out a psychic message to everyone saying he knows who and how the floods happened. Magneto sits on his throne looking smug and angry at the same time.
  6. Raven Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 5, 1998
    star 6

    I picked it up and read it.


    The Good:
    -The issue does eventually come to an end.
    -Not all the dialog is horrible.
    -The whale had it coming.
    -Better than Final Crisis so far.

    The Bad:
    -Didn't end soon enough.
    -The art wasn't all that great - we've definitely seen much better art in non-event Ultimate books for most of the history of the Ultimate Universe. Even excluding Brian Hitch.
    -LOLUSMSPOILERS. In all fairness, that might be the fault of Bendis for doing USM too slow.
    -Thor's GF from left field. Yes, I know she's from Ultimates 3 and technically from Ultimates 2 as well. Still hate her.


    3/10.

  7. Spiderfan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 2004
    star 6
    In all fairness USM tends to be one of the few Bendis volumes that ships pretty regularly. :p
  8. Raven Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 5, 1998
    star 6
    In my experience, if you blame Bendis for going slow you'll always be at least partially right.
  9. Spiderfan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 2004
    star 6
    No arguments, but USM tends to be the exception to the rule. :p
  10. Darth-Lando Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2002
    star 6
    Secret Invasion #8 is shipping a month late. [face_whistling]
  11. Yodaminch Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2002
    star 6
    So Ultimatium #1 wasn't great.

    But #2 was just plain TERRIBLE. Horrendous plot, terrible dialogue. I can't believe that garbage was actually printed.


    Blob a cannibal eating Jan, Valkyrie and possibly Cap dead. And Magneto snaps Xavier's neck without Xavier even trying to fight back. Simply mind bogglingly terrible.[face_plain]
  12. DarthStymi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2002
    star 3
    I have a feeling things aren't always what they seem, especially in the case of Xavier. I'm thinking Xavier clone, which I am not sure if they have done in the X-Man Ultimate universe yet.

    Also, it seems mostly the women are severely injured or dead. I think there may be something significant there...and again, not as it seems.

    We've already seem Cap mysteriously healed...and we don't know why.

    Is this the confirmed end of the Ultimate Universe...not that I think it has been particularly good these past few years.
  13. Darth-Lando Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2002
    star 6
    We haven't had Xavier cloned or anything in the UU but he was believed dead when Cable/Wolverine took him to the future. I don't think Cap has been "healed". I think he's dead. Thor finds him in Valhalla remember. I'm guessing Thor will have to choose between rescuing Valkyrie or Cap and will have to leave one behind. Cap seems like the obvious choice because as far as I know Cap and Iron Man are the only people who are confirmed to survive Ultimatum as Millar has said he will be using them in Ultimate Avengers. That could just be me hoping the Valkyrie is never heard from again. Were we actually supposed to enjoy her and Thor as a couple?

    Anyway, there's a lot of suckitude in this series. Finch is doing a good job, as expected, but Loeb's writing... I guess you could say that it's about even with his other recent work (Ultimates 3, Hulk, etc.) which is to say: awful. Loeb is like the Michael Bay of comics. Tons of cool visuals and explosions but when it comes down to storytelling he leaves a lot to be desired. But whatever, this whole series is being written purely for shock value anyway so it's turning out as expected. The one good thing about Ultimatum is that it looks like they'll be bringing Nick Fury back from the Supreme Power Universe. And hey look! Zarda finally made an appearance! Now if we can just get an explanation on how Doom got out of the Zombieverse...

    Death Count so far:
    Nightcrawler
    Beast
    Dazzler
    Xavier
    Dr. Storm
    The Wasp
    Valkyrie
    Captain America (For now at least)
  14. DarthStymi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2002
    star 3
    I'm not defending Loeb, but let's not over-look all the amazing work he's done over the years. All comic book artists, especially if they've been around a long time, have plenty of duds.

    I'm mostly saying that it is entirely possible things aren't what they seem.

    I'm half expected an ultra-sappy conclusion where many come back to life. But who knows.

    I'm not sure I will continue to follow the series. It was OK. but there has certainly been plenty that were much worse.

    Good point about Cap in Norse "heaven." But that doesn't make very much sense. I say he is some how magically alive again. A trend I am guessing, guessing mind you, will continue.
  15. BartSimpson-SithLord Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2002
    star 5
    I don't really agree with the mindset of "oh, sure, it's been a dud so far. But we can't forget all the great work [insert writer/artist] have done in the past!" mentality. It's that very same mentality that has allowed for Claremont to continue to get work way past his prime. Loeb has shown an increasing ability to totally forget whatever it was that made him a decent and popular writer in the past and has instead done nothing but churn out dreck after dreck after dreck for some time now. So, no, I do appreciate what he's done in the past, but that doesn't excuse recent failures. He needs to be cut loose so that writers who are actually inventive and can string together a plot that isn't just [insert powered up character kicks everyone's butt for ____ # of issues] can actually get steady work. So many undiscovered talents drift away into indie obscurity because Loeb, Claremont, and their like of "good in the past" writers continue to suck away at the industry.
  16. Darth-Lando Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2002
    star 6
    Ugh, don't get me started on Claremont. He totally ruined Exiles, which used to be one of my favorite books.

    I believe Hulk is on issue #9 now. :p

    But yeah, you can't just give writers and artists a pass because they did good work in the past. Yeah, you can give the benefit of the doubt a bit longer if a series isn't turning out so great. But a line has to be drawn somewhere. Loeb has been turning out sub-par work for years now. Just off the top of my head I can think of Ultimatum, Hulk, Ultimate Power, Wolverine, Ultimates 3, and Fallen Son.
  17. Soontir-Fel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 2001
    star 5
    the end of his Superman/Batman run sucked sucked too. Other than issue 26
  18. Raven Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 5, 1998
    star 6

    Honestly, the last time I remembered enjoying a Loeb comic was the Supergirl arc in Batman/Superman.
  19. Yodaminch Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2002
    star 6
    With any luck Jean will use her Phoenix powers to hit the reset button again.:p

    What bugs me is they went through a lot of trouble in Ultimate X-men to bring Xavier back for a purpose. Jean then puts things back in Order. And they just arbitrarily off him.

    Jan's death is just sickening on so many levels. Who thought of it, why the heck did Loeb write it and what was the artist thinking are just a few questions that run through my mind looking at that.

    The only one I won't miss is Valkyrie.

    Beast REALLY bugs me because then there was no point at all bringing him back. Same with Nightcrawler in fact. And Dazzler's death was also a crime.
  20. NJOfan215 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2003
    star 5
    After reading issue 2 i wonder who will be left for miller to write in ultimate avengers.
  21. Soontir-Fel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 2001
    star 5
    Ultimatium is amazing.

    It is like every bad choice that could be made is, plus terrible writing and horrid art. It is like the perfect storm of suck.
  22. BartSimpson-SithLord Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2002
    star 5
    Someone on /co/ said it best. "This is like a superhero snuff film."
  23. Darth-Lando Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2002
    star 6
    At first I hated Ultimatum. Then I loathed it. Now I think it is the single greatest comic I have ever read. It's like when you watch a really bad movie just so you can keep laughing at it. The worse it gets, the better it gets.
  24. Spiderfan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 2004
    star 6
    I am starting to wonder if Loeb's writing process consisted of a wall filled with every character in the Ultimate Universe, a blind fold, and handful of darts that were just wildly thrown about until he ran out, leaving a handful of characters without sharp pointing metal sticking in their face who would comprise the survivors of this massive cluster****. Then it was simply a matter of creating the most insane deaths possible for anyone relevant, and simply revealing the irrelevant deaths in exposition...then fill in the story where there were no connecting dots.

    No the question is how long until all of this is rendered irrelevant and everyone is dancing about alive and healthy again.
  25. Yodaminch Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2002
    star 6
    Well, the good news is it's over.

    That's about all that can be said about this terrible, terrible storyline.

    X-Men Requiem and Fantastic 4 Requiem did what they could to salvage the mess Loeb made of their series, but really the whole thing was completely unnecessary and between this and Brand New Day, I just have little interest in anything Marvel does right now. [face_plain]
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.