Amph Jeph Loeb hates you and all your kind (Ultimatium)

Discussion in 'Archive: SF&F: Books and Comics' started by Soontir-Fel, Nov 3, 2008.

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  1. Spider-Fan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2008
    star 4
    Brand New Day has come a long way and even I can't ignore the good stuff they are doing in Amazing now. And the Requiem books for Ultimate Spidey were great IMO. Not only do we get a great retrospective of Ultimate Spider-Man which was a consistently good book (if not great at times) and despite all the carnage we get a good ending for once.
  2. Yodaminch Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2002
    star 5
    Except I've yet to see anything in BND that could not have been written while still keeping the marriage. Aunt May could still have married JJJ Sr. Harry could still return. Jameson could still run for and win Mayor.

    I will agree that Spider-Man's Requiem was good. But then again, I never had an issue with Spider-man's handling to begin with. Out of all the heroes in the garbage that was Ultimatum, he and the fantastic four got off with the least amount of death. Jameson's family is dead and Dr. Storm is killed, but the main cast is all fine and safe and alive. Compared to the X-Men and the other heroes who are completely decimated.

    And because I am primarily an X-Men fan and I got into the Ultimate universe through Ultimate X-Men, I really am infuriated at the handling they received after the previous team spent so long getting everyone back to a clean slate. :oops:
  3. Spider-Fan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2008
    star 4
    The big stuff stays the same, true, but Spider-Man has always beem more than just the villains he fights. Its the dynamic and complexity of Peter's life that has changed day to day and a lot of that has been brought back to the series. Prior to the marriage there was a whole other cast of characters that populated the series and made it more than just a superhero book, and that was largely the appeal of Spider-Man comics for years. But slowly as everyone aged and the series evolved that mostly went away. I am not blaming the loss of that aspect on the marriage but without the marriage it has allowed them to open it up and include a whole new cast of characters along with various returning ones. Its become more than just the erasing of the marriage but returning the series to a method of story telling that was very much a staple of Spider-Man for years.

    I will agree that its totally disproportional the amount of death involved from series to series.
  4. Yodaminch Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2002
    star 5
    There were several ways to take Peter to the same scenarios without making a deal with the devil or even divorce. If they really wanted MJ out of the picture, she could have "died" for a while. Or, a new career could have taken her overseas for several months and Peter, suffering from money problems, has to move in with someone else. About the only thing they couldn't have is Peter with another romance. And let's be honest, the latest issue suggests he's still more interested in Mary Jane than anyone else anyway. Because this is a comic book superhero and just about anything goes, from magic, to deals with the devil, to time travel etc. I fail to see how the events that occurred since OMD could not be included without having to destroy the marriage. I find it a cop out and lazy writing.

    That said, I'm still more upset at the shafting Ultimate X-Men received anyway. :p
  5. Spider-Fan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2008
    star 4
    It was more than just the marriage they were dealing with. They tried all those things to get rid of the marriage and they were always trite and heavy handed (right down to killing MJ) and Marvel always had to undo the problem. Furthermore I don't see how those are any less of a cop out or lazy writing than what occured. I don't disagree that it was a stupid story, but it happened and its over. We can either accept that and move on to some genuine writing or drop the book altogether...however given that the book is selling well regardless of our patronage I don't think Marvel cares.

    The swinging bachelor life he is enjoying couldn't be as effective if he is mourning his failed marriage. Again that was tried and failed miserably. And they still needed a way to deal with the issue of his identity being public knowledge.

    I am not defending their choice, I am simply stating that the stories are genuinely good regardless of our protests and reservations. And lets face it. Our protest is meaningless when the book is selling better than it has in a long time regardless of whether we buy the book or not.
  6. Raven Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 5, 1998
    star 6

    Well, the post-Ultimatum universe is kind of weak IMO. Spider-man isn't really grabbing me at the moment. Mark Miller being back on the Ultimates is making for a good story, but it doesn't have the epic feel of his previous Ultimate stories. I'm just not feeling it.
  7. Darth-Lando Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2002
    star 6
    I'm liking Ultimate Avengers a lot. But then again, I'm a total Millar fanboy. :p Ultimate Spider-Man has really hit a low point though. I find the art painful to look at. And the story just isn't grabbing me. It's a shame because outside of a few arcs (Deadpool and that ******* Wolverine mind-swap story)the run has been near flawless. The first issue of Ultimate Armor Wars was OK.
  8. Yodaminch Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2002
    star 5
    Spider-man has just been slow and I really don't know what it's building to, but right now I'm not caring. And Ultimates is interesting but I guess I fail to see why Ultimatum was needed to tell this current arc.
  9. Spider-Fan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2008
    star 4
    So far Ultimatum was essentially useless. The idea was to create an end point for Volume 1 and start a new volume where they wouldn't simply be Ultimizing existing Marvel characters but creating their own. And from what I can see they aren't doing a great job between Mysterio and Red Skull. However there seem to be hints of changes that have occurred and left unexplained (USM relationships, an all out ban on the use of Mutant powers, while other post-humans seem to be left alone) and new things to come (this mysterious vigilante in Red in USM and what his endgame is, a different team of Avengers).

    There is nothing necesarily grabbing about either series so far besides little questions left unanswered from Ultimatum and new questions popping up with each issue (mostly "What happened to ______?"). However keep in mind that both Millar and Bendis are notorious for slow starts, but often deliver decent stories in the end. USM was consistently good and I am willing to give Bendis the benefit of the doubt, and Millar's Ultimates were always slow to start. I am willing to bet that the stories will be better when the full scope of what is taking place is known.
  10. Soontir-Fel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 2001
    star 5
    Yeah, Ulimate Avengers has felt very stale and kinda boring.
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