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Discussion in 'Archive: SF&F: Films and Television' started by JediTrilobite, Aug 31, 2006.

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  1. Obey Wann

    Obey Wann Former RMFF CR & SW Region RSA star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Jan 14, 2000
    Frak. Me. :eek:

    I just finished seeing this and am floored. Again.

    First and foremost, this is some of the best writing of any TV show produced.... ever? Well done. I am so glad we fought for this show and got it back, because this was incredible. So muhc better than the drek that is on the rest of the time.

    It's too close to reality, Red Dawn for the modern era. And it works, much like RD did in the 80's, but without the cheesiness. Now our own gov't and corporations are the bad guys. Well done.

    The scene with Bonnie was like a gut-punch. She kicked much Blackwater... er... Ravenwood tail. Too bad she missed the one guy that needed it most. The embezzler himself. I can only imagine what Stanley is going to do.

    And did Mimi survive? --Looks like it. But the books are gone,a nd I'm sure it will all mysteriously dissapear. I can only hope that the J&R lady files an independent report since it's now obvious that Goetz will kill to protect himself. Or is she going to mysteriously die on the way to Cheyenne? So now we have a mysteriously killed journalist, Bonnie killed BY Ravenwood, and Mimi on her deathbed. How long before Beck, and the townsfolk start getting fed up with Goetz?

    What we are essentially seeing is a Blackwater/KBR takeover of the US. I don't know much about Rand as a corp, but I have seen KBR in action, and read too much about BW. [face_plain] And anyone else notice they were "September Attacks?" This is going to get more and mroe interesting. And scary.

    Like BSG, every episode of Jericho makes me scream at the screen in frustration that I have to wait another week to get fed another tiny bit, yet keep on needing more. I don't need crack addictions, BSG and Jericho do the job just fine, thank you.
  2. Leto II

    Leto II Jedi Padawan star 6

    Jan 23, 2000
    When Heather was brought into Hawkins's confidence, it was a simple scene, but the tension was amazingly high. Most portrayals of this kind of thing are done in such a cavalier fashion without any acknowledgment of the utter hopelessness that makes such encounters necessary. But the dynamics of Hawkins and Heather deciding whether they could trust each other was brilliantly and simply scripted, and the actors are to be commended for pulling it off so well.

    And when Heather did the deed, she didn't look like she was "sneaking around". She looked honestly and truly scared and conflicted. It was a really nice and realistic departure from the "I'm duplicitous; see my smirk?" portrayal that usually (and sickeningly) characterizes such scenes.

    One more thing: Heather is smart. I don't know how much Jake and Robert ultimately told her, but I have no doubt she's figured out from the type of data she's nicked that Jake and Robert are hiding a nuke. With that knowledge, the conflict she's enduring must be unbearable.

    I was shocked when the shootout happened. I suppose if you want things to boil over really fast, killing an innocent is the best way to do it. Stanley's gonna go on a rampage. I found it interesting that they played with the sound for that scene. Especially since it's effective from the perspective of the girl that can't hear anything.

    I got the impression they muted the sound to convey the scene from the point of view from what Bonnie specifically could and could not hear. (There was one point where there was a noise she reacted to, rather than a shadow.)

    And I for one am glad that things happened the way they did. There wouldn't be nearly the same buzz around the show if it hadn't been cancelled, and this tight, seven-episode season is jampacked in a way that no 22-episode season ever could have been. I'm much happier with seven great episodes than 22 or 24 decent episodes that other series tend to produce, with only a few gems scattered throughout.

    If I were CBS, I would keep the show on seven-episode seasons that could be brought in perpetually at midseason to plug holes in the schedule. Also, since the first-season finale was supposed to be it, I'm treating these seven episodes as a bonus prize. Whatever happens, I won't be sorry I watched Jericho, like I am with John Doe and The 4400 (and others). CBS has done right by me by granting these us these seven episodes, and allowing the writers to give us closure.

    If this were FOX, they would have produced seven episodes to "test the waters," aired two (out of order), preempted two for sports, and then never scheduled the final three, opting instead to show reruns of some reality show, even though the unaired episodes are in the can. Then, in Christmas of 2009, we'd be able to purchase the "Lost Episodes" of Jericho on DVD, long after we've forgotten about it.

    So yeah, this is a bonus prize, and it's darn good television to boot. If CBS cancels the show, I hope the fans are gracious enough to be thankful for the gift they got with these seven episodes. If CBS knows that fans can actually be pleased, then they may actually go to some length to please the fans in the future by -- for example -- allowing the producers of the next serial drama that bombs to do a wrap-up two-hour movie.

    A new precedent has been set here. Some good can come from this. I just hope the fans don't raise such a stink that CBS regrets producing these final seven episodes for them.

    This is a show that could thrive on short seasons.
  3. Leto II

    Leto II Jedi Padawan star 6

    Jan 23, 2000
    Damn...Hawkins does NOT play grab-ass. I felt sorry for the Ravenwood guys as soon as they walked into his home. They never had a chance.

    Like the old Raid "Roach Motel" commercials: "They walk in, but they don't walk out."

    [blockquote]Jake: "They have twelve."
    Hawkins: "Now they have three less."[/blockquote]
    Just another day at the office.

    Another great, tense episode. I especially liked the shot of Major Beck riding into New Bern with the Ravenwood guy lynched over the sign. It made me immediately flash back to learning about the terrible days of Bleeding Kansas. We sometimes forget how dark our own history is, and this episode -- like the final arc of last season -- drove home the "Lord of the Flies" argument that we're all a lot closer to being savages than we'd like to admit.

    In the meantime, though, Beck was called out of town at the worst possible time. My guess is that Jake and Hawkins just let Russell (the New Bern bounty hunter) have Goetz to string up as a trophy so they (Jake and Hawkins) could play dumb and deny any involvement.

    That would be my strategy. But the other question is, were any of Goetz's goons still alive/conscious when Stanley capped him? I could see the Jericho and New Bern people saying, hey, we were trying to arrest him peaceable-like, but Goetz started firing...however, the other Ravenwood guys likely will never back this up in a million years, no matter what happens from here on out.

    Unfortunately the administrator's embezzling, far from simply costing poor Bonnie her life, seems to have also cost them Beck's tenative support for Jake and Hawkins:

    [hl=black]The shot of Jake surrendering and being blackbagged in the preview for next week was shocking.[/hl]

    I just don't see how they're going to wrap this up in two episodes. I actually got choked up when Stan was signing his last words to Bonnie. A nice touch. Also, Stanley puking after shooting Goetz was realistic, and showed his humanity, considering he's never cold-bloodedly shot someone in his life. A lot of people just don't have it in them to walk up to someone, blow their brains out, then walk away. Stanley just doesn't have that kind of constitution. After all, he's not a cop or in the military.

    (This episode's title was "Termination For Cause." Nice.)

    Fare thee well, D.B. Sweeney. TOEPICK!!!

    It's kind of apparent this could be the last of the show, but it's almost like this show is entirely setup as a preface now; the call for the next American Revolution...what a statement. The series producers want to do another season, and it would be a drastic shift in everything that's happening, and who the required characters would be, outside of, say, Jake and Hawkins.

    And the revelation that the former-Senator-now-President John Tomarchio was a former J&R executive...the Dick Cheney parallels are piling on thick and furious.

    Only Dick Cheney, as far as I know, was never involved in a conspiracy to nuke his own country. (As far as I know.)
  4. xm41

    xm41 Jedi Youngling star 1

    Jan 5, 2007
  5. Obey Wann

    Obey Wann Former RMFF CR & SW Region RSA star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Jan 14, 2000
    Great episode, great recap. I love Hawkins! That is one BAMFrakker.

    I also loved Stanley throughout the show. Very real. And puking at the end --also real. He's just a normal guy caught up in a world of crap, and he did the only logical thing to do in this situation. I'm sure I would have done it as well.

    I also cheered seeing Goetz strung up. Outstanding! Good for New Bern. The question is --what will next week bring?
  6. Leto II

    Leto II Jedi Padawan star 6

    Jan 23, 2000
    Also, if I may, I do wonder what would possess a group of people to murder millions of people and overthrow the government...for what? Just to be at the cabinet-level of a new, totalitarian government? It's a question to consider.

    I'm not criticizing the show for putting this forth as a plausible notion, because I have no doubt that such people exist, and would do just that if given the opportunity. I just don't understand the GottaRuleTheWorld!! mentality of such real-world egomaniacs. Do their TiVos not have big enough hard-drives, or what?

    I do think that having Jennings & Rall revealed as the instigator of the worst crime in the history of the world is an exciting development, and it completely eliminates any presumption that this plan was initiated for some misguided "higher purpose" of establishing a better government. Nope, it's just greed. How do you combat that kind of indifference to life? How much like them will the townspeople of Jericho have to become in order to put an end to their machinations?

    I thought before that Trish was my hero, but after thinking about it, I'll have to go with Heather. Trish didn't hesitate to do the right thing, but she also had little chance of getting caught. Heather, on the other hand, committed herself to continue to do the right thing, even if it meant having a bounty on her head.

    And Goetz, when he said to Trish, "Are you happy?", is typical of one who never sees that his own misfortune is the result of his own actions, not the actions of others. In his mind, the only reason he was fired was because Evil Trish betrayed him, not because he was a murdering lowlife.

    Poor Stanley. I wonder if Beck will find out who actually pulled the trigger. At least his sister went out with her boots on.
  7. Obey Wann

    Obey Wann Former RMFF CR & SW Region RSA star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Jan 14, 2000
    What do all men with money and power want? More money and power.

    Typically there are checks and balances to prevent, or minimize such gross excesses. Whether it is the C&B system built into the Constitution, or the press checking on corrupt businessmen and politicians, or the C&B system of accounting and independent review. However, there are always those who think they are above the law, or that they are smart enough to get caught.

    Then there are the truly evil self serving types. Those are the scariest ones. It's one thing to embezzle to pay for a slush fund, it's another thing to murder to cover it up. History has always had it's share of evil, and sadly these times are no different. We can only pray that in the real world, as in Jericho, that the right people will prevent the evil ones from causing too much trouble.

    And that the wrongdoers hang by the neck until they are dead, dead, dead.

    Now Stanley is in a very precarious position, but I'd like to think that Beck is going to be won over. Also the blonde J&R chick is probably heading to Jericho with the new (less corrupt) Ravenwood folks, and she will probably have a part in calming Beck down. I hope. She seems like a good person who just got a job and didn't know that she was working for the Antichrist. ;) Just like Beck is just a professional soldier trying to do the best job he can with the info he has available. He didn't ask to be under old baldy and J&R, but he is, through no fault of his own.

    Now there may be hell to pay, but if we're really lucky, it'll be good olde (bad olde) Constantino who hangs, because he had placed a bounty on Goetz's head. Heather will confirm that, and Heather and Beck have a lot of respect for eachother. Constantino has always played the "abused aggressor", and Beck has probably been looking for a reason to terminate Phil with cause. Now he has reason.

    Stanley, although he did pull the trigger, had a fairly justifiable reason for pulling the trigger on Goetz -- the embezzling punk murdered his sister and almost killed his fiance. Once Beck calms down and looks at it from Stanley's POV, I think he will pardon him.

    Only time will tell, but that's the way I see it working...
  8. Leto II

    Leto II Jedi Padawan star 6

    Jan 23, 2000
    Another assumption we've all been going on, but which might be due for reconsideration:

    Has it actually been established that Thomas Valente is indeed evil? Obviously we've been led to suspect that.

    Listening to the mystery-caller again, I think it's possible that it is Valente speaking. Just because he assigned Sarah Mason to Hawkins doesn't prove he knew she was involved with the plot. I believe that it is Valente that Hawkins is talking to. Listen to Valente's conversations with Beck, and then to "John Smith." They sound the very much the same.

    And if that was Valente negotiating to get Hawkins's bomb, that again doesn't prove he is evil. He could have been trying to get it back to prove the Cheyenne government was responsible. Yes, I realize Valente himself is working for the Cheyenne governement in ASA Homeland Security, but probably so are many other former U.S. government officials who know nothing of the conspiracy.

    The caller's revelation that President Tormachio was a rising star at Jennings & Rall suggests that he may be directly involved in the conspiracy, and not simply a mere puppet. His affiliation with J&R is something that could easily be disproved if false, so it would be pointless for the caller to make it up.

    Tormachio being a high-ranking official of J&R mirrors Vice President Cheney being CEO of Halliburton (just an observation, not an indictment of private contractors, so nobody go nuts). There had been no concrete link between J&R and Cheyenne before, aside from the belief that Valente had some involvement with Jennings & Rall.

    If Valente is the caller, that would makes sense. He helped draw up those plans, which in real life were created during the early years of the Reagan administration. The graphics on the plans given to Hawkins had an "'80s" look to them, and even had an older-looking J&R logo.

    He was the chief of the Department of Energy's nuclear materials program prior to becoming head of Federal Homeland Security in Washington, D.C. (per his bio on Hawkins's laptop). He knows about "Project Red Bell," who's left alive on Hawkins's team, and is very up-to-date on current events occuring in rural Kansas (which would've been provided on a regular basis by Major Beck, operating directly under his command).

    Also, the Morse Code from episode 2.3:

    [blockquote]"CALLER KNOWS ALL"[/blockquote]
    Which would certainly describe Valente, given his access. But it could also describe somebody else completely. I'm also leaning towards the notion that perhaps "Smith" is either a spook himself, or worked for one of those agencies, and is now possibly in the employ of the ASA. Perhaps a deputy of Valente, or in some other high capacity.

    (There's also "Tom Tooman" to consider...but that's a whole OTHER post.)

    So unless I'm wrong, and I have been wrong in the past, aside from looking and sounding sinister, there is nothing to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Valente is necessarily evil and part of the conspiracy. But again...I've been wrong before. Is it possible he and Hawkins have been on the same side all along?
  9. Obey Wann

    Obey Wann Former RMFF CR & SW Region RSA star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Jan 14, 2000
    You're really trying to bake my noodle, aren't you?
  10. Leto II

    Leto II Jedi Padawan star 6

    Jan 23, 2000
    [link=]CBS has cancelled Jericho. Again.[/link]

    Not that many of us didn't see this coming, though.

    Also, there are now apparently some problems with even the Sci-Fi Channel picking up the series, as they are owned by Universal, not Paramount (who own Jericho), and the two are at odds over how to share the revenue if a third season were to take place at Sci-Fi.

    If it doesn't happen at Sci-Fi, it would be a situation very similar to what destroyed the Babylon 5: Legend of the Rangers series over there -- B5 is owned by Warner Bros., and a pissing match over profits ensued, which ultimately killed the entire project.

    The good news?

    CBS is in discussions right now with both the USA and CW networks to pick up the show, with CW being a good fit, as CBS already owns half the network, and the CW being starved for viewers and quality programming (they'd still better ****ing renew Reaper, though).

    How they're going to continue the series by using the "finale-finale" ending, I have no idea. Unless they broadcast one version next Tuesday, and the other alternate "cliffhanger" cut prior to a hypothetical Season 3 premiere wherever the series ends up.

    So...there it is. Discuss.
  11. gonzoforce

    gonzoforce Jedi Master star 5

    Feb 27, 2002
    at least they got closure of a sort and CBS gave them a chance to have a somewhat series finale, gotta give CBS props for that.
    It could of gone the way of My So-Called life, or Freaks and Geeks, great shows that didn't get a chance for a proper finale.
  12. Vaderize03

    Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Oct 25, 1999
    I like your idea of broadcasting both finales, hopefully, they go with that should they be able to pick it up.


  13. xm41

    xm41 Jedi Youngling star 1

    Jan 5, 2007
    So, what were everyone?s thoughts on the finale? I thought there were a couple of clap your hands moments.
    When Beck decided he would no longer take ASA orders and when the other CO's ripped the ASA flags off their uniforms was a cheer out loud moment for me. When Gray Anderson took down the ASA flag and put up the old ?Don't Tread On Me? flag outside the town hall was also a very meaningful scene.

    I don't know when I've ever been this into a TV show. I love how they set the ending up. Now that Texas will rejoin the USA it?s on with the next American civil war. ASA vs. USA.

    I've always been a sucker for a post apocalyptic story and I probably know more about nuclear bombs than anybody should. I really hope another network picks up the show so they can continue the story.

  14. Obey Wann

    Obey Wann Former RMFF CR & SW Region RSA star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Jan 14, 2000
    :mad: Somebody'd better frakking take up season 3, or I'm going to start shipping nuts again. [face_plain]

    Great show, I'm just ticked that we have to do this all over again.

    Stupid frakking executives.
  15. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Jan 27, 2000
  16. Leto II

    Leto II Jedi Padawan star 6

    Jan 23, 2000
    Devil's Due [link=]is about to start production[/link] on a "Season 3" Jericho comic book series, presumably depicting the events of the Second Civil War, which began at the end of Season 2, and with the full creative involvement of the TV series' writers and producers:

    [blockquote][hr]Devil's Due Brings "Jericho" TV Series to Comics

    by CBR News Team, Editor

    Official Press Release

    CHICAGO - Devil's Due Publishing (DDP) has announced a deal with CBS Consumer Products to publish a new comic book series tied to fan-favorite Jericho, the one-hour drama series that garnered critical acclaim and ran on CBS for two seasons, from 2006-2008. The series centered on the residents of the fictional town of Jericho, Kansas in the aftermath of nuclear attacks on 23 major cities in the contiguous United States. The comic book series will pick up where the television program left off, answering many questions for its passionate fans. DDP has teamed up with the show's creators and producers to develop an authentic story that will hit comic book retailers this fall.

    Jericho fans are some of the most dedicated in the world of television. In 2007, devotees to the show produced by CBS Paramount Network Television rallied together to bring back the fan-favorite, which was initially cancelled after just one season. The show returned for a seven-episode second season, but was not renewed for a third season. While fans received a little more closure with the end of season two, there were still loose ends that could be addressed.

    "Jericho is alive and well, thanks to the amazing fans who've driven us to find new and fresh ways to tell the Jericho story," says Dan Shotz, Co-Executive Producer of Jericho. "Josh Blaylock and the DDP team are great partners and have shown a true love for our show. We are so thrilled about this comic book series and the endless possibilities for the future of Jericho."

    Joining Shotz in developing the comic book will be most of the original creative team, including Jon Turteltaub, Carol Barbee, Karim Zreik, and Jon Steinberg.

    "I can't tell you how cool it is for DDP to be able to continue the Jericho story in comic book form," says DDP President Josh Blaylock. "We plan to give fans the story they've been craving. This is going to be epic stuff."[hr][/blockquote]

  17. darth_grievous1

    darth_grievous1 Jedi Master star 5

    Apr 24, 2004
    I've also heard rumors of a Jericho cinematic release, similar to Firely's Serenity.

    Still, this sounds interesting, and I'll look into it when it comes out.
  18. Obey Wann

    Obey Wann Former RMFF CR & SW Region RSA star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Jan 14, 2000
    That is awesome news!!!
  19. Dawud786

    Dawud786 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Dec 28, 2006
    I'll be buying it.
  20. Sith_Lord_Linkoping

    Sith_Lord_Linkoping Jedi Knight star 5

    Jan 19, 2001
    Great news. I read the news about a Jericho movie in January and some more info surfaced over at [link=]Sci-Fi Wire[/link] today. I'm looking forward to the comic-book and hopefully a movie as well. :)

  21. Leto II

    Leto II Jedi Padawan star 6

    Jan 23, 2000
    There's going to be [link=]a Jericho panel at Comic-Con tonight[/link], covering the upcoming "Season 3" Devil's Due comic series:

    [blockquote][hr]On Friday, July 24th from 5:00-6:00 PM, Jericho star Lennie James, producers Dan Shotz, Karim Zreik, Jon Steinberg, show writer Robert Levine, and Devil's Due Publishing (DDP) President Josh Blaylock will be on hand to discuss the "3rd Season" of the fan-favorite series in its new comic book format. The debut of the comic book series -- Jericho: Season 3: Civil War -- will pick up where the television program left off, answering many questions for its passionate fans. The first issue of the comic book is scheduled for an October release, and will be a six-issue miniseries from DDP and the show's original creators and producers. Known as an "Ashcan" by comic collectors, DDP is currently at work on a black and white mini-comic giving an advanced sneak peek into the comic, which will become available for $5, but limited to 500 copies. Room 7AB.[hr][/blockquote]
    Very nice. Can't wait for this one.
  22. Rox

    Rox Administrator Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Nov 24, 2000
    Me too. My old roommate got me sucked into Jericho right before it got canceled. Saw this today and I am really looking forward to it.
  23. Leto II

    Leto II Jedi Padawan star 6

    Jan 23, 2000
    According to Lennie James at the recent San Diego Comic-Con Jericho panel, [link=]a wrap-up 2-hour TV movie is in the works at CBS[/link], which seems to be the more feasible game plan over a theatrical film.

    If so, it makes one wonder how much the upcoming "Season 3" comic series will factor into things, with the TV series writers/producers involved with both projects.
  24. Leto II

    Leto II Jedi Padawan star 6

    Jan 23, 2000
    [image=] [image=]

    From Previews:

    [blockquote][hr]Jericho: Season 3 #1 (of 6)

    Author: Dan Shotz & Robert Levine (TV Series writers)
    Artist: Alejandro F. Giralbo
    Cover Artist: A) Scott West; B) Zac Fisher (photo cover); PX) John Christmas
    Continues right where the Season 2 cliffhanger ended! Jake Green and Robert Hawkins are in the safe haven of the Texas with the last remaining bomb from the first attack. From amidst the chaos, they're contacted by John Smith, the mastermind behind the first strike, seeking aid. As they Cheyenne army bears down on them, they must decide whether to side with their former enemy to fight a greater one...
    32pgs, FC $3.99[hr][/blockquote]

    To be released on 10/28. Also, according to the San Diego panel, the story picks up with the broadcast version of the Season 2 ending, not the alternate DVD version.
  25. Sith_Lord_Linkoping

    Sith_Lord_Linkoping Jedi Knight star 5

    Jan 19, 2001
    I'm looking forward th read season 3. By the "artwork" you posted, it looks pretty good. :)

    I'm also looking forward to a movie (if that ever should happen). A telemovie like BSG's "Razor" or the upcoming "The Plan" sound like a great idea and more likely to happen than a theatrical release.
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