ST JJ Abrams directing Episode IX Discussion

Obviously, he will make two versions of IX.

 

Recently saw this Slashfilm article circa 2015 again...

Obviously The Force Awakens is the number one priority for Disney and Lucasfilm, but they also must be planning for the announced sequel trilogy. I asked Lucasfilm head Kathleen Kennedy if a treatment had been written for Episodes VIII and IX and here is what she said:

"No, because at that point we were sitting down and talking about where this might go, even as early on as with Michael Arndt. We were sort of plotting out, because obviously if you know up front that you’re building the pacing inside a trilogy structure, we needed to have some sense of where this saga was going without locking in on things and leaving room for creative development. But we had to have some sense of where we were going."

Director Abrams explained the process a bit further:

"We don’t write a treatment but there are countless times we came up with something and said “oh, this would be so great for Episode VIII!” or “Thats what we could get to in IX!” It was just that kind of forward moving story. But we knew this had to neither be a backwards moving nostalgic trip only nor a beginning of a movie without a satisfying conclusion, and that was part of the balancing act — embracing what we have inherited and using that where and whenever possible to tell a story that hasn’t been seen yet. We also knew that certain things were inevitable in our minds but that didn’t mean it would be inevitable for whoever came in next."

Speaking of “whoever came in next,” Lucasfilm head Kathleen Kennedy reminds me that Brick/Looper helmer Rian Johnson “started working on the script for Episode 8 a year and a half ago” and “he’s been in prep for a year” with the shoot scheduled to begin at the end of January 2016:
"So we need to be working a couple of years out in front of, at least in terms of the script, in front of these start dates."

Kennedy says that Rian came in “very early and he read, and came and visited the set,” but how involved was Rian in The Force Awakens?
"J.J. and him had a lot of conversations."

Abrams elaborates and praises Johnson’s screenplay for the next installment:
"When Rian who I admire enormously and adore, came on board, we met and talked with him about all the things we were working on and playing with, and he as a spectacular writer and director has taken those things and has written an AMAZING script that I think will be an incredible next chapter, some of which incorporating things we were thinking of and other things are things we could never of dreamed of."

Does Rian Johnson read the Force Awakens script and give notes, suggesting changes or additions for things he maybe wants to seed early for his film? Abrams says the process was somewhat collaborative:
"There were a handful of things we talked about that were going to be helpful to him. Some were very easy to do, and some things were things that I didn’t want to do for other reasons, but I tried to be as accommodating as I could. And its so cool to see what happens next in a way that only someone as talented as Rian could do."

Kennedy admits that Jurassic World helmer Colin Trevorrow will probably end up having a more involved collaboration with Rian Johnson:
"I think Colin [Trevorrow] will end up doing more of that more-so with Rian as he develops Episode IX."

This makes sense as Trevorrow is coming in to direct the conclusion of this new sequel trilogy, and it’s essentially a third act of the story structured by Abrams and Johnson. As for JJ Abrams’ involvement in the future of the franchise, Kennedy told me:
"His involvement on VIII and IX will really just be an executive producer, and really just to continue the storytelling."

So maybe we can finally bury the idea that Rian made TLJ in a vacuum or that JJ disliked it or the direction RJ took the story, or that RJ threw out JJ's treatment for 8??

 

I hope that ends the RJ tore up JJ’s three drafts and JJ hates TLJ bull**** but I suspect it won’t.

 

Yeah especially when JJ says he admires & adores RJ! These two were & are still definitely on the same page.

 

I’ve no doubt JJ would have done a few things differently, but there is literally no evidence to suggest JJ is seething at Ruin’s destruction of his detailed master plan.

 

Oh absolutely, they are very different directors, but I think if JJ was offended or angry about RJ's take he wouldn't have used such positive language... you can be 'supportive' without 'gushing'.

 

Well once again considering how completely out of synch TFA and TLJ are on so many levels I doubt that there will be or needs to be any reference to TLJ except on the most basic levels that were quite likely where JJ was going anyway and actually effectively was the case in TFA.

So to continue on the idea that the First Order has or (by the time of IX) had some kind of power/control over the galaxy and that Kylo Ren is the Supreme Leader. The Resistance became the new Rebellion and likely by the time of IX they'll have relight the spark, rallied tens of thousands of systems in 3 to 5 years and now it's all-out civil war in some form.

JJ will probably do space battles and the like the way he did them in TFA. I doubt we'll see any more lightspeed ramming or slow speed chases or barely moving bombers etc.

If JJ uses Luke then he can simply make him the actual Luke because he's past the crisis that TLJ had him in. Snoke's return if wanted by JJ is extremely easy to do. Anything he wants to do with Rey's lineage is totally open to anything at this point. Ren is also open to anything since we still don't know his story anymore than Rey's.

So what from TLJ does JJ really have to connect into besides the most nominal?

As far as it goes the reboot phase of this trilogy is complete so IX is presumably going to have to be about completing as best he can the story of the trilogy and then tying it's events into the PT and the OT.

I don't think it really does at this point but setting aside all the problematic aspects (that were mostly contained in TLJ albeit their roots were in TFA) and just accepting the events as is then there is still the question of how they get it to play across 9 movies.

That means at this point somehow tying into Anakin vs Sidious, Jedi vs Sith, the prophecy of the Chosen One and Balance of the Force.

 

That's your opinion not a fact... for many of us TLJ was completely in synch w/ TFA. And apparently this was also true for JJ since he called TLJ AMAZING & INCREDIBLE!

 

You’re basing all your conclusions on your own personal opinion that TFA & TLJ don’t sync. You’re also presuming that Abrams agrees w/your opinion, including that there’s not much of TLJ he has to connect into besides “the most nominal” (whatever that means).

Based on everything we’ve heard from Abrams, there’s just no basis to believe he thinks TLJ doesn’t sync w/TFA or that he’s going to disregard what happened in TLJ. In fact, we have far more evidence to the contrary.

 

That was my point. We have no evidence that he hates TLJ or that his detailed plan was thrown out by RJ against JJ’s will, and some quotes from JJ and Grunberg that suggest he loved it and was in the loop and onboard with it. Given that RJ’s story was cracked before JJ finished shooting and the script was done before the edit was locked we also know that TFA reflects what TLJ would be.

Re whether or not TFA aligns with TLJ I think this quote sums it up:

“…what plot [the film] did have was illogical and made no sense with the first film… [The characters] seem to be a set of different people [except Luke] in an alternate universe, to me.”

If that [except Luke] detail is confusing you in regards TLJ, that's because that quote is from a fan review in 1981 about how ESB didn't fit with ANH. This stuff has always existed, and it seems as much in the eye of the beholder as it's always done (link here - https://fanlore.org/wiki/The_Empire_Strikes_Back#Some_Early_Reviews).

 

The last scene of TFA and the first Achoo scene in TLJ were quite literally not in sync...(Seriously - watch the two scenes side-by-side.)

I think TLJ was suposed to be disorienting. I expect 9 will feel like a connection of TFA and TLJ, though.

 

I don't agree on this at all, such a view seems entirely dependent on whether you like what Luke does.

 

The tone of the scene, absolutely. Rey’s demeanor, too. I believe even the lighting/time of day but I’d have to double-check.

People aren’t so much upset that Luke tossed the saber - it’s how it was done: for comedic effect, making it an abrupt change in tone from TFA despite it being the same scene.

 

My word, that review is brilliant.

 

You should check out all the links at the site. It's hilarious. The only difference between the kind of comments the OT was getting and the ST is that social media has amplified things as opposed to it being limited to a fanzine letter's page. I mean, there was an open letter demanding a boycott and for George to burn all copies of the ESB negative.

 

There are different ways and levels of being “in sync.”

Personally, I think it’s in sync, generally, but not in the way you think it’s in sync.

 

I disagree as well. Luke's anguish tallies up with him putting on his emotional armour and the bitterness surfacing.

 

The Internet has blurred things. People think its worse now, but this link proves that fanboys have always been the same, and always will.

 

I had to laugh at some of the fan beefs : "The alliance promotes its generals too easily" "Lando mispronounces Han's name" "Han is turned into a bumbling dimwit just to make Luke look better" - all ROTJ "Leia is a Mary Sue" - starting with ANH, etc, etc.

 

Maybe a specific subset of fans *generally speaking.*

And yes, of course there are fans who mistake their dislike of a movie for the movie being low quality, just as those who mistake their enjoyment of a movie for the movie being high quality. It cuts both ways.

I have seen TLJ fans being accused of loving the movie just because they’ll slobber over anything SW. Nope!

I have seen TLJ critics being accused of disliking the movie just because the story wasn’t what they expected/wanted. Nope!

But the change in perceived quality of a prior film has zero probative value re the percieved quality of TLJ.

 

Lando: C'mon Han old buddy don't let me down!

Han: It's pronounced "Hahn" old buddy!

 

I’m really hoping Master Skywalker returns. It’s very possible and will add much needed gravitas to the ST. It seems very bland since TLJ.

If Gandalf the Grey can return as Gandalf the White, why not Luke.

It would good story telling and correct the course if the story.

 

I did say setting that aside regardless of how anyone feels about it actually working within it's own trilogy and how best to link it into the overall story of I-IX.

Well obviously. I really don't see what purpose there is in even having to be point that out. For myself the tactic I take (and I think it makes complete sense) is that when one states what they say it's their opinion which they believe in (otherwise why would they write it?). They then can stay silent and say that is that or can further assert their claims with back that up through examples. Anyone can see perusing my history can see I have copious examples of that for myself and comment on others who agree with me that I support and others who hold an opposite view that I disagree with and my responses as to why I think that isn't the case.

Not at all. Again I don't understand why that which is my opinion is somehow perceived as being empirical when we all know that isn't the case anymore than anyone else here saying JJ agrees with them that it's all flows together. We simply don't know what he really thinks.

Does anyone have anything new other than the old material that he thinks the script is great and wishes he could direct it? Because there are all kinds of questions that could be asked that point out all the out of synch elements of TFA to TLJ which have been gone over by myself and many others. From Luke to Snoke, Rey and Ren, the state of the galaxy etc etc.

That is within this trilogy itself never mind the Lucas saga of I-VI of which there is an even greater disconnect.

As I stated in the post prior what exactly is there that would need to be vehemently "disregarded" as such?

So as before:

As far as it goes the reboot phase of this trilogy is complete so IX is presumably going to have to be about completing as best he can the story of the trilogy and then tying it's events into the PT and the OT.

I don't think it really does at this point but setting aside all the problematic aspects (that were mostly contained in TLJ albeit their roots were in TFA) and just accepting the events as is then there is still the question of how they get it to play across 9 movies.

That means at this point somehow tying into Anakin vs Sidious, Jedi vs Sith, the prophecy of the Chosen One and Balance of the Force.

 

It is really interesting stuff. Just change a few of the names and the review or articles could be talking about any of the prequels, or TFA or TLJ. It is true what a lot of people say, that SW fans haven't really been "united" since 1977.

 

And before that, they were raging at rival fanrchises - Trek or Close Encounters.

Watch for Solo to address this lol.