PT JJ Abrams opinion of the prequels?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Luukeskywalker, Jan 26, 2013.

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  1. BigAl6ft6 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 5
    Look, I don't think Abrams woulda gotten the job if he walked in Lucas' office and been like "Oh, man, oh man, oh man, I LOVE those original 3 movies. But those prequels? P-EW! What in the heck were you thinking? I mean, WOAH! What a hunk of ... uh, I'm sorry George, what was this meeting about again?" "Get. Out."
    Last edited by BigAl6ft6, Jan 29, 2013
  2. KilroyMcFadden Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 3
    I doubt, (if for nothing else than due to LFL politics,) that JJ is ever going to come out and admit that he thinks that GL made mistakes in the PT. Because he has already made his feelings about the the character of Anakin clear, I think the course of action he will take is to never mention midichlorians, the Jedi code, Anakin's backstory, or any of that other hogwash. I think that he'll make sure the writing isn't cheesy, get a realistic performance out of the actors, and just generally get the franchise moving forward and away from those stories... start getting Star Wars the respect it deserves in the general public again.
    Last edited by KilroyMcFadden, Jan 29, 2013
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  3. Samnz Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 3
    Star Wars gets enough respect in the public.
    It's people lile you, Kilroy (who expatiate on their subjective problems with one half of the Star Wars Saga over and over again) who do everything to destroy the image of Star Wars on the internet world.

    And I don't know what you're reading into Abrams' Anakin quote, but it's wrong ;)
    If you're used to Abrams' interviews, you will know that "crazy" is perhaps his second-most used word and rather positive.
    His words about Anakin are pretty neutral. Anakin is his kids' hero!

    And btw, Abrams is not writing the script. Ask Arndt.
    Last edited by Samnz, Jan 29, 2013
  4. Gallandro Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1998
    star 4
    Yeah we certainly don't want lines like:

    Leia: Your friend is quite a mercenary. I wonder if he really cares about anything, or anybody?

    Lando: You are absolutely beautiful. You truly belong with us here among the clouds.

    Han: Well, I don't trust him either, but he is my friend. Besides, we'll soon be gone. (Who actually talks like this? Grammatically you would say "Besides, we'll be gone soon." Horrid.)

    Leia: Governor Tarkin, I should have expected to find you holding Vader's leash. I recognized your foul stench when I was brought on board.

    Star Wars has always been filled with clunky, cheesy dialogue... the Original Trilogy is just dripping with bad dialogue. As Harrison Ford famously quipped: "George you can write this $#it, but you can't say it."


    Yancy
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  5. Gallandro Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1998
    star 4
    [IMG] Yeah J.J. sure hates that Prequel Era stuff.

    Yancy
  6. KilroyMcFadden Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 3
    If the movie comes out, and he ends up wallowing in PT lore, I'll freely admit that I am wrong.
  7. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    That's hard for some people to admit. Bashing the prequels is more easy.
  8. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    I'm told that at the time there were some pretty horrible reviews of Empire Strikes Back, and that Anthony Daniels despised C-3PO as written in the movie.

    If Red Letter Media had been around back then, would 3PO have been the Jar-Jar of the day?
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  9. Valairy Scot Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Probably.
  10. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
  11. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    The reference to focusing more on characters than pyrotechnics (though pyrotechnics are awesome) is interesting:

    "What I would love to see is a story about characters that I am desperately entertained by and definitely care about, and keep that story as focused as possible and make more of that than the pyrotechnics of it all which to me is what makes Star Wars so brilliant."
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Jan 29, 2013
  12. Gallandro Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1998
    star 4
  13. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    Sorry, you took more than 12 parsecs. ;)
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  14. Gallandro Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1998
    star 4
    That's correct. A lot of reviews at the time lamented the fact that TESB was so serious compared to ANH. One reviewer said "the fun is gone," others thought the Dagobah scenes dragged. The biggest criticism at the time was of course the cliffhanger ending.

    Siskel & Ebert both praised the film and said it was one of those rare sequels which actually surpassed the original. Richard Schikel (a very prominent critic of the era) absolutely savaged the film. All in all the film received very mixed reviews with critics and a lot of casual fans who once again complained of the ending.

    Rotten Tomatoes wrote a piece right after the release of ROTS comparing the reviews for the OT and the PT from their respective eras. No SE reviews were included, ANH used newspaper reviews from 77, TESB from 80, and ROTJ from 83, and the Prequels only used reviews from their intial releases as well. And guess what they found... OMG the PT was better reviewed overall than the OT. Sith received the highest score with an 83% rating, ANH was right behind with 78%. The next highest reviewed was the much maligned Phantom Menace which was still certified fresh with a Tomato Meter reading of 64%. TESB came in with a Rotten score of 52%, AOTC was next with 43% I believe, and last of the bunch was ROTJ with a score of 38%. I'll have to see if I can find that link... I saved it somewhere after I found it on the Way Back Machine web site.

    Unfortunately older fans (myself included) tend to view the OT through slightly rose-tinted glasses, and we tend to believe EVERYONE loved Star Wars. No, most filmgoers LOVED Star Wars, but there were quite a few that didn't, or didn't get it. My Mom loathed Star Wars... wasn't much for sci-fi at all, but my Dad LOVED these movies. My younger cousins loved them like I did... my older cousins had more important things to do like build cars and pick up chicks...


    PS and please don't quote or cite the nonsensical critic review "formula" cited in Secret History of Star Wars... it was a lame response to the RT article which used unfiltered reviews from the era. The author tried to "weight" certain review and came up with some statistical nonsense to support his assertions the Prequels sucked.

    Yancy
    Last edited by Gallandro, Jan 29, 2013
  15. Count Yubnub Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2012
    star 4
    Here you go:
    http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/sta...uels_actually_better_reviewed_than_originals/
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  16. Gallandro Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1998
    star 4
    Yeah and if you go to the link toward the bottom you can read the achieve.org links they used to cite the OT, and they did a great job of having cutoff dates for reviews... so the PT reviews weren't polluted with stupid reviews from blogs months after the fact, or home video review sites. Of course zombie (who wrote Secret History) neglects to mention any of that and comes up with some bizarre formula which had TPM receiving a 31% rating among critics, despite the fact the RT website had TPM certified Fresh with a 68% critics score a full month after the movie was out.

    But he was hocking a book... so I'll give him a break.

    Yancy
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  17. Count Yubnub Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2012
    star 4
    Are you referring to that "Secret History of Star Wars" thing? Yeah, I skimmed that, and noticed how unjustified that "analysis" was. Oh well. Motivated reasoning.
    Last edited by Count Yubnub, Jan 29, 2013
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  18. Gallandro Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1998
    star 4
    Spot on that's exactly what I was thinking. There was a thread with pages and pages of his justifications and explinantions how his analysis was correct and RT was wrong. It was baffling. I finally gave up that thread after it was evident he was doing nothing more than pushing an agenda.

    I have one agenda, I love Star Wars.... don't care if it's OT, PT, Clone Wars... some EU. I just love this universe which George created. And I cannot for the life of me understand why OT only lovers just cannot accept the fact that there is a substantial part of the fanbase that likes the PT. And why on earth you would dedicate so much time to bashing that part of the fanbase. If you don't like the PT, fine, I don't give a crap. But why troll a part of the forums dedicated to the films you hate. Why not spend more of your time in the OT forums espousing your love for those films.

    Frankly I spend a lot more time in the PT and Clone Wars forums because I find that period of Star Wars lore infinitely more interesting than the Rebellion Era (but I'm a political wonk, so that probably explains a lot), but I love both. I just don't get why some can't just agree to disagree and move on. That's what has fractured the fanbase... not the films themselves, but the fans. It's sad really.

    Yancy
  19. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    Sure, but I was specifically asking why he was posting here in this specific thread. I mean, this isn't really a discussion about what we think of the PT but rather what JJ Abrams does.

    Rogue1-and-a-half basically highlighted a portion of someone's relevant post on the issue simply to bash the PT while straying off topic. It contributed nothing to the conversation and seemed more like baiting, honestly, when I would expect better from a mod of all people.

    Plus, why would you post on a PT board if you liked absolutely nothing about it? There's the CT boards, the Saga boards (if you want to talk about the PT in relation to the OT), or the Episode VII boards just for the movies. I mean, I'm not a fan of the EU, so I don't post on the EU boards because it would be a waste of my time and contribute nothing to the discussion, especially if I just made a "hit and run" post with no substance.

    For me, probably the biggest reason I will never be able to take "Secret History of Star Wars" or savestarwars.com seriously is due to how horrifically Lucas' 1988 speech on the Berne Convention was butchered in order to push the site owner's agenda. Honestly, the hypocrisy of it still kind of galls me to this day.

    But anyway, in regards to JJ Abrams, I've come to accept that he probably won't use nearly as much PT imagery in the ST. There are logical reasons for this of course -- the ST is the continuation of Luke Skywalker's story and basically everyone from the PT is now dead. Plus, chronologically, it makes more sense for the ST to be more similar to the OT than the PT.

    I do hope he takes some cues from the PT, though, particularly in terms of music -- there's a lot of absolutely stunning and iconic music composed for the PT. I would argue that Duel of the Fates, for example, is right up there with the Imperial March and the Force theme as being synonymous with Star Wars.

    What gives me the most hope is that he recognizes that his children are fans and that will hopefully give him some incentive to include things for younger generations (some of us who very much enjoyed the PT ;)) as well.
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  20. YodaDooDahDay Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2010
    star 3
    Holy crap, Yancy! It's like you're in my head! I haven't posted in a long, long time, but somehow I remember disagreeing with you more back in the day. What'd you do to get so cool?!! ^:)^ [face_laugh]
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  21. Gallandro Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1998
    star 4
    Actually, I think we agreed a lot more than disagreed, but I was probably more snarky in my PT defense. Been a while for me posting too... But new Star Wars films, story by George, Larry Kasdan back, one of my favorite producers running the show, and one of my favorite contemporary directors behind the camera... Count me in!!!

    "I'm back to complete the training."

    Yancy
    Last edited by Gallandro, Jan 29, 2013
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  22. Count Yubnub Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2012
    star 4
    Likewise. :)



    I thought baiting was against the JC rules. Mods should know better.



    It's quote mining, and it's obviously dishonest. I thought large sections of "Secret History," for as far as I've perused it, were solely based on quote mining.
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  23. Gallandro Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1998
    star 4
    I think that goes without saying.

    Yancy
  24. Rogue1-and-a-half Manager Emeritus who is writing his masterpiece

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2000
    star 8
    This is the least convincing argument for the prequels I've ever heard (and I've been hearing it since 1999). "Oh, so the prequels suck, do they?! Well . . . well . . . so do the others!" Yeah, quite the Pyrrhic victory you've won for yourself there.

    The original Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back are, by any reasonable metric, among the best films ever made. They consistently appear on lists of the best films, the classic films, the essential films, etc. Let me know when any of the prequels garners such universal and unstinting praise. And it is universal; the only people I've ever heard criticize the original pair of movies, as cinematic experiences, are people trying to defend the prequels.

    But, yeah, why am I here? I saw the thread title and was interested in seeing what Abrams thought about the other SW movies. And I couldn't keep my big mouth shut. There's a reason I don't come into this forum usually. :p
  25. Jedi_Ford_Prefect Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2003
    star 4
    I don't know about anyone else, but whether or not a movie garners universal and unstinting praise means absolutely nothing to me, in and of itself. There's such a thing as movies being over or underrated, for films to recieve bloated attention or a dearth of it over time. Sometimes it can take a while for a movie to get its due recognition-- "Heaven's Gate" was a bomb in 1980 and blamed for the death of New Hollywood for decades, but more than 30 years later it's enjoyed a critical renaissance and entered the cinematic canon of the Criterion Collection. At the same time, take a look at a list of Oscar winners years after the statuettes have been handed out, and odds are you might walk away scratching your head at the decisions, to say the least. And as others have pointed out on these boards, reviews for the OT were by no means better than the PT when they originally came out, free of nostalgia or internet-accelerated groupthink.

    I think it comes down to what the locations will be-- planets that are completely new to us, and that Abrams and his team are free to visualize how they want, or places we've been to before, and have a visual continuity they have to fit with. In part, it'll be determined by what kind of story they want to tell, but for the most part there's only two planets that I think they'll have much reason to return to. Tatooine will probably come back, even though it's been done to death and there probably won't be much narrative reason for it other than pure nostalgia (the same was partly true for the Prequels, but at least there was the continuity of Luke's growing up there to fit with). Coruscant is also a fairly safe bet as the political center of the galaxy, and there we'll have plenty of opportunities to see Lucas' continued vision.

    Besides those places, I don't see much need for the next trilogy to visit any OT or PT planets unless the story calls for it-- at best, I could imagine visiting Kamino to investigate a conspiracy involving clones, but I doubt we'll see the likes of Naboo, Geonosis or Mustafar anytime soon. I have a nagging fear that we'll see OT planets visited just for the sake of fanboy nostalgia, but honestly, is there any reason to go back to Yavin, Hoth or Endor other than to please whiny 40-somethings? At best, I can see a pitstop at Cloud City, but even then it's a matter of "been there, done that". Again, with the exceptions of Tatooine and Coruscant, I would expect that most of the locations of the ST will be new ones, and frankly that's what I would hope. One of the reasons I loved the PT is because it was so different from the OT. If all we get in Abrams' films is an extended tour through locations we've already been to before, then what's the point?
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