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Amph JJ Abrams' Star Trek Into Darkness

Discussion in 'Community' started by Ulkesh2, Sep 8, 2010.

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  1. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    Because the two are about equally well-thought out in their internal logic and compelling as narratives.
     
  2. DarthLowBudget

    DarthLowBudget Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 17, 2004
    So you admit they're both lifeless hokum?
     
    Sarge likes this.
  3. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    What do you mean "admit?" I shout it from the rooftops.
     
  4. DarthLowBudget

    DarthLowBudget Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 17, 2004
    Let us shout together!
     
  5. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 9

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    May 4, 2003
    Maybe we can be joined by some sort of albino shouting gorillas!
     
  6. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    This is a guy who built a super laser gun could blow up planets and used a bunch of clones and droids to wipe out the Jedi. If he wanted to, he'd kill everyone in the company. The fact that he sent Vader to kill everyone in the Confederacy that was on Mustafar, is proof of that. Anyway, it does make sense because they've only been told a half truth. It makes sense to them to blockade, invade and force a peace treaty. Rune saying that he thinks it was a bad idea, is because he doesn't want to go to prison. Not because the plan didn't make sense to him.

    They follow orders. They don't question his orders. Their orders are to starve the people and that's what they did.


    Except the Trade Federation wasn't like that. They got to be where they are because they exploited oversights made by the Senate, a thousand years ago after the Sith were believed to have been destroyed. They bought and bribed their way to the top, but they weren't an organization that used it's army to do what they do in TPM. The Droid Army was for protection from pirates and criminal organizations like the Hutts. That's why the Republic let them get away with so much, for so long, before the taxation laws were drafted. Any time they crossed the Senate, they backed down. They were never a real threat until the Sith came along. If they were, they would have told Sidious to shove it up his arse when he came to them with their plan.
     
  7. DarthLowBudget

    DarthLowBudget Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 17, 2004
    You realize that you are attempting to do a close reading of political and economic factors in a film that is at best supposed to be given as much serious thought as a Flash Gordon serial?
     
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  8. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Not to mention that he's the reason the Neimoidians are running the show over at the TF in the first place, having engineered the assassination by battle droids of the rest of the Federation's directorate. And Nute knows it.
     
  9. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    Are you kidding? You do realize Anakin was only able to do this because they let him in through the front door, thinking he was on their side? Do you really think that a war waged for three years with no one having the idea to try and attack the CIS leadership? Really?

    So if it makes sense for them to force a treaty, how does it make sense to let Sidious prevent them from applying the force necessary to get that treaty signed? Why would they let him do that, when it's so clearly against their interests?

    Again, this is where your whole argument falls apart. You want to keep insisting, as the opening-crawl did, that Sidious and the Trade Federation were somehow partners working together. Yet, the terms of this cooperation are so demonstrably illogical that the only defense you can muster for it is that the Trade Federation acted as mindless peons. Which was it? Are they self-interested actors that actually wanted to get something out of the deal, or where they regenerating bad guys even more mindless than the battle droids they controlled?

    What are you even saying here. They "exploited oversights" but somehow did that in way that was never ruthless or harmful to other people? They stuck strictly to the friendly, helpful kind of exploitation? What exactly are you going for?

    And what is your point about this military issue? You say they were competent enough to face down pirates and organized crime. But they were too incompetent to figure out how to point a gun and shoot at unarmed civilians? Never mind what any of this has to do with being more creative about pressuring Padme to sign the treaty besides politely asking her and then sending her to sit in some room in her own palace when she refuses?
     
  10. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    The opening crawl didn't mention Sidious at all.

    Or the word "partners".
     
  11. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    Apologies.

    I will gladly amend to "as the film itself did."
     
  12. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Just keep making it up as you go along.
     
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  13. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    Which has nothing to do with the fact that Sidious sent Vader to kill them. It's not about getting close enough to do that, it's that Sidious sent Vader to kill them because he was done with them. He never intended to give them a reward, other than death. They mistakenly believed that they were going to be well compensated for their time and effort the last thirteen years.

    NUTE: "The plan has gone as you had promised, My Lord."

    SIDIOUS: "You have done well, Viceroy. When my new Apprentice, Darth Vader arrives, he will take care of you."

    He killed everyone in the organization.

    What part of do as you're told, don't you get? They're scared of Sidious and don't want to cross him. Especially after learning of the existence of Lord Maul.

    They're not equal partners. It's 90-10. Sidious is in charge of the whole deal. They follow his orders and they will benefit from it. The title crawl never said that they were in league with the Sith. That's only revealed when Sidious first appears. That's why he is the Phantom Menace, because the Jedi know that this is unusual for the Federation to pursue this course of action.

    I'm saying that the Trade Federation never did business the way that you think that they should. They did it by bribing their way to the top. They never did anything aggressive until the Naboo blockade. This is documented in the film.

    No, just that they never blockaded a planet and threatened the lives of civilians. They just defended themselves by pushing a few buttons and letting the droids do all the work. They never got their hands dirty like Jabba, who had done criminal enterprises such as kidnapping, torture and even through threat and use of force, to stake his claim. They also know that if they try to actual kill civilians, that the Senate will take action against them. They're sticking to the plan.
     
  14. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    Talk about being a sore winner.

    Wocky apologized for a minor tidbit that doesn't even affect his whole point being incorrect, and you use that opportunity to get in another dig, as if that's going to help you when you're clearly wrong on the overall point.

    Disgraceful.
     
  15. JoinTheSchwarz

    JoinTheSchwarz JC Head Admin & Community Manager star 8 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2002
    Guys. I know it's hard not to talk The Phantom Menace when talking about terrible movies, but this has gone for long enough.
     
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  16. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    I had a dream I went and saw Star Trek 3, and the Borg were the bad guys. Unfortunately, it was terrible because the Bee Gees wrote the soundtrack, and the Borg looked like Transformers.
     
  17. Jabbadabbado

    Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 1999
    I don't know if anyone has seen this at the Video Copilot website. Andrew Kramer did the Star Trek into Darkness closing title sequence in After Effects using the plug-in he developed and sells.


    Frankly, it's the most interesting thing about that movie.
     
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  18. Jedi-Anakin-Solo

    Jedi-Anakin-Solo Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 26, 2001

    Was it by Michael Bay? I honestly would like to see him blow up a Borg Cube. :p
     
  19. Barriss_Coffee

    Barriss_Coffee Chosen One star 6

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    Jun 29, 2003
    Awwww I was hoping you'd use your newfound admin powers and summon Simon Pegg to join in.
     
  20. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    No never ever ever say that again on the internets.
     
    Lazy Storm Trooper likes this.
  21. Jedi-Anakin-Solo

    Jedi-Anakin-Solo Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 26, 2001

    I'll give that some more context. I don't want him anywhere near a Star Trek movie. I just want to see a FX reel of him blowing up a Borg Cube.
     
  22. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    No not even that.
     
  23. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Meh. How many movies with Borg cubes blowing up do we need?
     
  24. Juliet316

    Juliet316 SFTC March Tiemaster star 10

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2005
  25. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 8

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    Apr 17, 2006
    Hope he takes Orci with him.
     
    _Catherine_ and Sarge like this.
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