Amph JJ Abrams' Star Trek Into Darkness

Discussion in 'Community' started by Ulkesh2, Sep 8, 2010.

  1. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    I like how the commenters are getting annoyed that the article calls it a "Star Wars reboot".

    They should get used to it.
  2. Darth Guy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    star 10

    The article says otherwise. Oh well.
    Last edited by Darth Guy, Sep 12, 2013
  3. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Apparently they're not a package deal like Scotty and Keenser.
  4. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    This is like a parable for why it's impossible to love both Star Wars and Star Trek. You have to choose one.
  5. Skywalker8921 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2011
    star 4
    WHo says? My parents and I enjoy both, and anyone who says it has to be either one or the other is nuts.
    Juliet316 likes this.
  6. HL&S Magistrate Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2001
    star 6
    I am late to the party, but I saw STID for the first time the other day. The first third of the film had me, but then it just took a nose dive once they started fleshing out Khan's plan. A thousand things could have gone wrong with that frozen people/missile plan of his in the transferring alone. Was he expecting Kirk to shoot all 72 of them at him and or exactly 72? Why must every villain ship be abnormally large and dark/black? Was there any real reason why he was named Khan other than for the dramatic and unoriginal reveal scene?

    Another thing that bothered me from my one viewing was the warping. When they ended up at Earth near the end, I literally thought my blu-ray had skipped a few scenes because they got there so fast. Maybe I completely missed something, but I mean if they were already that close to Earth, couldn't they have sent a transmission for help once they were crippled? They seemed to get a hold of Spock easy enough. Speaking of which, why did Spock contact Spock? Khan didn't come across as THAT dangerous per say. Certainly not enough for the logical young Spock to try to **** with time and talk to old Spock. That said, could old Spock have maybe added in some warnings about V'Ger and that massive whale probe thingy? Now those were some serious threats.

    The acting and visuals were great though. I think Bones is my favorite character. But next time they make one of these, they should invent some new aliens and do some new things. Or if they visit old Star Trek lore, pick something less known or less iconic and make it bigger. There's bound to be underutilized star trek villains and plots.
  7. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    It wasn't Khan's plan to have any of the missiles fired- that was Marcus turning Khan's plan against him.

    One odd little detail that I saw confirmed on the builders website, but the last history-of-spaceflight ship model in Marcus's office actually is the Vengeance, not the Enterprise (as I had initially thought), which seems kinda weird if it's supposed to be a kinda secret project (as far as building a massive battlecruiser can go). Seems a little odd to have a model of it on his desk in a presentation that clearly states "this is real".
    Last edited by The2ndQuest, Sep 13, 2013
  8. HL&S Magistrate Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2001
    star 6
    So it was Marcus who put the crew in the missiles? Or it was Khan who put the crew in the missiles, but Marcus knew and decided to shoot them at Khan?
  9. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    The latter. Khan put them in the missiles to smuggle them out of wherever they were. After Khan went rogue and escaped to Klingon territory. Marcus found out and tried to trick Kirk into using the missiles against Khan (remember he wasn't supposed to try to capture him), which would wipe out all the augments/Khan and start the Klingon conflict Marcus wanted- justifying Marcus using the Vengeance to take out the Enterprise to finish cleaning up the evidence that motivation and keeping Starfleet's hands clean as they could blame it on Kirk.
    Last edited by The2ndQuest, Sep 13, 2013
  10. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2003
    star 8
    If he had that much access, why didn't he just wake up his crew, and then they could all fight/escape together?
    Master_Jacen likes this.
  11. HL&S Magistrate Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2001
    star 6
    Waking up the crew is probably a long process but then again individually placing each crew member into those missiles seems just as difficult. Especially when you're likely being heavily guarded by Marcus's men. Which is probably part of the reason why I was getting confused with Khan's plan. He was so matter of fact and focused when explaining everything to Kirk that I guess I didn't realize he was improvising once he got to Klingon world.
    Last edited by HL&S, Sep 13, 2013
  12. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9

    Indeed. I've enjoyed both franchises for years and years. I know others who have as well. People are too firmly entrenched to believe that only one is superior to the other.

    In Trek, there's a precedent for that. It was established in the other universe that the larger the Federation ship, the more power that could be mustered and thus making a formidable match in battle. That's why the Enterprise D and the other two Galaxy class starships were considered some of the most powerful vessels in Starfleet. Can't explain the coloring.

    According to the writers, it was due to Khan's popularity from "The Wrath Of Khan" that they decided to go ahead and have him in it, rather than just avoid going with someone original. I think it's more that Paramount wanted to capitalize on the character since he could be alive in the new universe.

    I think it's taking liberty with the editing. Qo'noS is quite a ways from Earth as it has been depicted in the past. Even going at Warp 9, it'd take a while to get from one planet to the other in the Enterprise. Same with the Vengeance. With a Transwarp drive going at Warp 10 or higher, could make the distance in less time.

    That one is sloppy because Commander Spock shouldn't automatically assume that Ambassador Spock had met him. As to the other stuff, Ambassador Spock is still operating under the rules of time travel, which is to not divulge too much information about the future. He only did with Khan because he realized that as a consequence of his and Nero's trip, Khan was found much sooner and thus he needed to be dealt with now, instead of several years from then.

    It is. Watch "Space Seed" and you can see how long it took for Khan to become fully awake, as well as the rest of the crew of the Botany Bay. The effects of suspended animation take a while to shake off, which is why Cochrine worked so hard to perfect his theory of faster than light travel.
  13. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    They only have to get from the Neutral Zone to Earth, but that should still take longer than what comes off in the film like a matter of seconds. ( From First Contact: DATA: At maximum warp it will take us three hours, twenty-five minutes. ) Then again, this film's Neutral Zone is treated as though it goes right up to Kronos' doorstep... [face_beatup]
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, Sep 13, 2013
  14. hudzu Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2003
    star 6
    bones manged to take them all out in like two minutes. somehow. all khan had to do was wake up one dude and be like "yo here's how you do this get to work i'ma go blow up starfleet"
  15. HL&S Magistrate Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2001
    star 6
    Right. He had to disarm each missile first, then remove each heavy frozen person safely, put them somewhere that wasn't cleared for taking care of 72 frozen people just an hour ago, and re-arm each missile all in seemingly minutes. Even if he could muster enough spare crew members to help, I'm not sure how much equipment would be needed for such a task or even how fast the fastest piece of equipment could operate when lifting those frozen people and so on. There's probably a few steps I'm forgetting or wouldn't know to point out too.

    I truly would have appreciated them taking the time to show us this process. :p

    Also now that I'm thinking about it. Just how powerful could those missiles be with frozen people taking up so much room inside? I would think each missile is efficient and thus a standard sized missile would be the appropriate size for each component. Yet somehow there's plenty of room for frozen people and life support?



    EDIT: And all of the first while the Enterprise was heavily damaged in an assault earlier. So surely some systems are offline and maybe even a few of the frozen people were killed or tossed around?
    Last edited by HL&S, Sep 13, 2013
  16. Adam of Nuchtern Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
  17. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9
  18. HL&S Magistrate Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2001
    star 6
    Well I didn't know anything about that guy or his beliefs. The 9/11 imagery and connections weren't lost on me though and I'm okay with movies that have corrupt governments and conspiracies. But the article does make me think about Starfleet being rotten from the core and how that probably wasn't Gene Roddenberry's vision.
  19. DarthLowBudget Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 5
    If by "probably wasn't Gene Roddenberry's vision" you mean "explicitly not Gene Roddenberry's vision" than you have hit the nail on the head.
    Sarge likes this.
  20. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Of course, "corrupt Federation admiral" is really nothing new as a story device, given various prior examples such as The Undiscovered Country ( also referenced/homaged in STID via the might-be-Praxis Klingon moon ).
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, Sep 14, 2013
    Jedi Ben and Jedi Merkurian like this.
  21. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Check this out:

    Some interesting stuff in there... map of the KNZ, "WORMHOLE RESEARCH", "TRANSWARP NETWORK" :eek:
  22. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9

    Yes, but...

    The Undiscovered Country was fairly mild compared to explicitly what Marcus' plan was in Star Trek Into Darkness and Roddenbury really, really disliked the concept of The Undiscovered Country plot, so one presumes this is worse. :p
    Jedi Merkurian likes this.
  23. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    As I recall he also really disliked things like people wearing clothes and using money.

    And TWOK.

    So... yeah.
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, Sep 14, 2013
  24. DarthLowBudget Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 5
    I don't really care what Roddenberry really liked or disliked, it's more that the plot of this movie is nonsensical.
  25. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    I still remember bursting out laughing at the 9/11 message at the end of the film.